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My post on the Worlds Collide forum

9.95

Noob
MK Past and Present: My Reaction to the current state of the game.

"The term jumping the shark alludes to a specific scene in a 1977 episode of the TV series Happy Days when the popular character Arthur "Fonzie" Fonzarelli literally jumps over a shark while water skiing. The scene was so preposterous that many believed it to be an ill-conceived attempt at reviving the declining ratings of the flagging show. The phrase has become a colloquialism used by U.S. TV critics and fans to denote the point at which the characters or plot of a TV series veer into a ridiculous, out-of-the-ordinary storyline. Such a show is typically deemed to have passed its peak. Once a show has "jumped the shark" fans sense a noticeable decline in quality or feel the show has undergone too many changes to retain its original appeal.

Jump-the-shark moments may be scenes like the one described above that finally convince viewers that the show has fundamentally and permanently strayed from its original premise. In those cases they are viewed as a desperate and futile attempt to keep a series fresh in the face of declining ratings." - Wikipedia definition of "Jump The Shark"

Mortal Kombat, has, officially jumped the shark. I say this now, even though my feeling is that the game has gone through a considerable decline since the inception of the fully 3D Mortal Kombat games(MKDA through MKA). Though these games are Mortal Kombat by name, they are, by no means, Mortal Kombat by gameplay. The storylines from MKDA through MKA were, however, very intoxicating and gave me some excellent backstory and mythos to read about the game and the characters. Story, unfortunately, is never enough to carry a game on its own. MKDA through MKD did, however have some level of merit, though I have never, and will never play them, as they competed with some of today's higher quality 3D fighters such as Tekken, Soul Caliber, DOA, and Virtua Fighter. They were, however, STILL not Mortal Kombat, they were simply generic, mediocre 3D fighting games with Mortal Kombat characters thrown in for the sake of selling a game with the name Mortal Kombat on it. Any Tekken/DOA/SC/VF fighter could have easily been dropped into them, or MK character dropped into the aforementioned games, and they would have felt and played as if they belonged there. THIS IS NOT MORTAL KOMBAT.

I was never a fan of Mortal Kombat 4. Something about it felt clunky and wrong to me, however, I will always recognize it as a true Mortal Kombat game. It has, even though it may be smaller, a hardcore following, and some very high level gameplay. Watch some of the MKK Venezuela videos and you will see that. Even though I never really liked Mortal Kombat 4, it still retained the ESSENCE of Mortal Kombat. Everything that was, and is, Mortal Kombat was in that game. MKDA-MKA simply do not have what even Mortal Kombat 4 has. They do not feel like Mortal Kombat, they do not play like Mortal Kombat. They do not have the essence of Mortal Kombat. MK vs. DCU only further removes it from this.

Now, I realize that Boon and Co. are trying to be daring and brave by constantly re-envisioning and cleaning the slate with Mortal Kombat. I even respect them trying to be innovative and come up with something new, something NOBODY has brought to the table before. They failed miserably, since MKDA-MKA are no more than generic, mediocre clones of current 3D fighters. I have no doubt that MK vs. DCU will be more of the same. My question about being brave is, why? Mortal Kombat had been very successful on it's own merit up to Mortal Kombat 4. Each game had seen it's own level of change, some re-envisioning, that kept the core gameplay intact, yet changed it, wheter slightly or drastically, and kept the game evolving. Mortal Kombat was very straight forward, and Mortal Kombat 2 added the cross-up kicks and punches. Mortal Kombat 3/Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3 completely revolutionized gameplay with the addition of the run button. This forever changed the gameplay as it was now an aggressive game and no longer a turtler's game. Mortal Kombat 4 introduced the 2.5D gameplay, added a dodge manuever, weapons, and the ability to throw objects. Mortal Kombat evolved, yet retained enough core gameplay to keep it Mortal Kombat.

Remember the days of, "which is better, Street Fighter or Mortal Kombat"? The arcades, for a very long time, were packed with people looking to play the newest Street Fighter and the newest Mortal Kombat, and that question was always thrown around. The very reason Mortal Kombat was even considered in that debate was because of how different it is. A BLOCK BUTTON? TAP MOVES INSTEAD OF CIRCULAR OR CHARGE MOVES? Lets face it, Mortal Kombat was different enough from other games(mainly Street Fighter) to stand on its own. It had it's own gameplay, it's own fighting system, and the developers were not afraid to be different in creating a game that did not follow the Street Fighter blueprint. Now, let me say, I think it's very easy to answer that question. I love Mortal Kombat, especially Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3. Street Fighter, however, is the better game. It's core gameplay has been unchanged for 17 years! Street Fighter has seen 2d, 2.5d(the EX games), and the newest game, Street Fighter 4 is going to be 2.5d. One of the most popular, Street Fighter III 3rd Strike, made a huge change by adding in the parry system and even removing all of its well known and well established characters save for Ken, Ryu, Akuma, and Chun-Li. In all of these games, there have been changes and tweaks to the game and fighting system, but in all of them, the core gameplay, the ESSENSE of Street Fighter has remained. Even the crossover games, X-Men vs. Street Fighter through Marvel Vs. Capcom 2, the core gameplay that made Street Fighter so popular has remained intact. The same cannot be said for Mortal Kombat. Mortal Kombat made a name for itself by BEING different. Now it's no longer different. Mortal Kombat is now the same as any mediocre, boring 3d fighter on the market. Nothing is new, nothing you say is innovative hasn't already been brought to the table by some other game.

So why, Midway, and why, Mr. Boon, do you feel the need to completely change Mortal Kombat so often? Your biggest rival, Capcom and Street Fighter, has managed to retain the core gameplay and essence of its flagship fighting game, yet you continue to disappoint, and disgust hardcore Mortal Kombat fans such as myself with these abominations you call games. You have not re-invented the wheel by making Mortal Kombat 3d. You have not been innovative by making a crossover. The DC game should have been the side game, with Mortal Kombat characters thrown in for fun.

Ed Boon, you have abandoned all your faithful fans in order to be "innovative", yet you have have done the exact opposite. You should be proud of being different back when Mortal Kombat was Mortal Kombat. Instead, you have turned your back on us. You have made Mortal Kombat jump the shark.

Thank you to all the faithful Mortal Kombat fans, the TRUE Mortal Kombat fans who have kept the real Mortal Kombat scene alive.

-Chiro
 

Shock

Administrator
Premium Supporter
Essentially what this comes down to is - what method of presentation and distribution will line Boon's pockets with money the easiest, and also supply him with a sense of satisfaction in the end result? You can see from his interviews that he has a very euphoric and delusional view of their games' meaning to him, and their games' true value, and this is disguised by his typical catatonic/cataleptic demeanor.

The series means so much to him, and he has all these ideas that he wants to see completed. The problem is, this series has become more of a play toy to him and he just does what he wants regardless of the valuable input of others. He knows that MK games sell a million copies or more no matter how bad they are, but to him, they are never bad because it's his work. There are other types of people who are never completely happy with their own work, he is just the opposite and thinks everything he does is "great" when it's actually a huge disappointment to most of the original fans.

Getting into his next atrocity, the incorporation of crossover characters from a highly respected franchise. Well, what does this actually mean? To him, it's probably along the lines of "See, MK is as big and important as DC and we can do a neat looking game with them just like Capcom and Marvel, only different" In reality, DC is, whether they realize it or not, lowering themselves to MK's level. The reason why this site is largely 2D based is because that's the widely accept timeframe of when MK was good and worth a damn.

The bottom line is, this game is the big OK stamp of approval on "Do whatever it takes to keep something alive as long as you can make money off it." People are only ever happy with a new MK game since the turn of the century for a few months. That's a bad turnover. It'd be different if each new game contained the elements of the previous and was actually better, like they did originally, but they don't anymore. No one actually listens to the input. They fixed some problems in MKD but added new ones because the fixes weren't tested.

It's the laziest system possible and it makes so much money. The only way you can hurt Midway on this venture is to not buy the game, and the only way they'd notice is if their sales for this one dropped by about 10 or 20% from MKA.
 

Tim Static

Adminerator
Essentially what this comes down to is - what method of presentation and distribution will line Boon's pockets with money the easiest, and also supply him with a sense of satisfaction in the end result? You can see from his interviews that he has a very euphoric and delusional view of the games' meaning to him, and the games' true value, and this is disguised by his typical catatonic/cataleptic demeanor.

The series means so much to him, and he has all these ideas that he wants to see completed. The problem is, this series has become more of a play toy to him and he just does what he wants regardless of the valuable input of others. He knows that MK games sell a million copies or more no matter how bad they are, but to him, they are never bad because it's his work. There are other types of people who are never completely happy with their own work, he is just the opposite and thinks everything he does is "great" when it's actually a huge disappointment to most of the original fans.

Getting into his next atrocity, the incorporation of crossover characters from a highly respected franchise. Well, what does this actually mean? To him, it's probably along the lines of "See, MK is as big and important as DC and we can do a neat looking game with them just like Capcom and Marvell, only different"" In reality, DC is, whether they realize it or not, lowering themselves to MK's level. The reason why this site is largely 2D based is because that's the widely accept timeframe of when MK was good and worth a damn.

The bottom line is, this game is the big OK stamp of approval on "Do whatever it takes to keep something alive as long as you can make money off it." People are only ever happy with a new MK game since the turn of the century for a few months. That's a bad turnover. It'd be different if each new game contained the elements of the previous and was actually better, like they did originally, but they don't anymore. No one actually listens to the input. They fixed some problems in MKD but added new ones because the fixes weren't tested.

It's the laziest system possible and it makes so much money. The only way you can hurt Midway on this venture is to not buy the game, and the only way they'd notice is if their sales for this one dropped by about 10 or 20% from MKA.
Essentially, this is what I was trying to say in post in Phil's thread, but Dr. UMK3 always put things into better words than !.

MKvDC = $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

I still hope it will play well. Shit, I hope at least, at the VERY least, it plays similar to MK4. And if thats all yo can hope for, thats sad.

But I will try my best to stay positive until I play it for myself. I <3 MK, and I <3 DC, but damn, this game belongs in 2-D. :eek:
 

dreemernj

Ambassador
Essentially what this comes down to is - what method of presentation and distribution will line Boon's pockets with money the easiest, and also supply him with a sense of satisfaction in the end result? You can see from his interviews that he has a very euphoric and delusional view of their games' meaning to him, and their games' true value, and this is disguised by his typical catatonic/cataleptic demeanor.

The series means so much to him, and he has all these ideas that he wants to see completed. The problem is, this series has become more of a play toy to him and he just does what he wants regardless of the valuable input of others. He knows that MK games sell a million copies or more no matter how bad they are, but to him, they are never bad because it's his work. There are other types of people who are never completely happy with their own work, he is just the opposite and thinks everything he does is "great" when it's actually a huge disappointment to most of the original fans.

Getting into his next atrocity, the incorporation of crossover characters from a highly respected franchise. Well, what does this actually mean? To him, it's probably along the lines of "See, MK is as big and important as DC and we can do a neat looking game with them just like Capcom and Marvel, only different" In reality, DC is, whether they realize it or not, lowering themselves to MK's level. The reason why this site is largely 2D based is because that's the widely accept timeframe of when MK was good and worth a damn.

The bottom line is, this game is the big OK stamp of approval on "Do whatever it takes to keep something alive as long as you can make money off it." People are only ever happy with a new MK game since the turn of the century for a few months. That's a bad turnover. It'd be different if each new game contained the elements of the previous and was actually better, like they did originally, but they don't anymore. No one actually listens to the input. They fixed some problems in MKD but added new ones because the fixes weren't tested.

It's the laziest system possible and it makes so much money. The only way you can hurt Midway on this venture is to not buy the game, and the only way they'd notice is if their sales for this one dropped by about 10 or 20% from MKA.
It all boils down to this is business, not art. If they think it will sell, they'll do it.

Remember the movie Big with Tom Hanks? There is that scene where Tom Hanks is in the meeting, playing with the building that transforms into a robot. And everybody around the table is a bit shocked to hear him say he doesn't think it's good because it isn't fun. To his character, a good toy was something artistic and inspired. To everybody else around the table, a good toy was something that tested well with focus groups and ended up selling well to the general public.

Something inspired and artistic will stay with people. They won't to give it up, and creating the next thing to sell to them requires improving the excellence of the product. And, no matter what, there will be a lot of people that will never move away from the original thing they fell in love with.

But if what you make is a flash in the pan, creating the next thing to sell to people just requires creating a slightly different flash in the pan.

And now we have MK:A 2.
 

dreemernj

Ambassador
Yeah, like Shock said, it would need to be something serious, like 10%-20% drop in sales, which is pretty much never going to happen on this game.
 

Tim Static

Adminerator
I just like DC too much to give up hope.


For as much as I disliked 3-D MK, I played all 3 of them and beat them as throughly as I could on the Xbox180. I didnt have a online conection at the time, so I never played online, and never wanted too.

But the games always left me wanting something else. They never fulfilled me or satisfied my craving for MK like UMK3 on XBL or MKII on PSN.
 
Boy did I find en interesting time to come back:)

anyways, From a business stand point this a smart move, Dc fanbase is alot bigger then the MK fan base, and by them crossing over like this, there expanding there crowd to not just MK fans, and with all the negative media about this from forums all over , it will draw alot of attention, which will gain alot more focus for the game from dc fans and MK fans alike, So from a business standpoint, I understand, But the MK fan in me is still "!?"

And for the record, if there was a MK v.s. Transformers game Me and Shock and Dreemernj would be all over it "ah guys" "nudge" "nudge":)
 

Konqrr

MK11 Kabal = MK9 Kitana
But the games always left me wanting something else. They never fulfilled me or satisfied my craving for MK like UMK3 on XBL or MKII on PSN.
That goes for me with most games I play. I play them with the longing to play UMK3 or MKII instead, as they have a lasting value where the new MK games do not. MKD had tremendous replay value due to it being the first official online MK game and I played it to hell and back, but I doubt I'll ever play it again.

MKvDC will be fun for sure, but I'm sure I'll end up stopping to play something else after a short time.
 

Shock

Administrator
Premium Supporter
The most important thing to me with games, is replay value. Games only have to look SO good in order to make them watchable. In terms of gameplay, something has to be really striking and the last 3 MK games definitely were not memorable, or have a high replay value for me. I can still play games from Super Nintendo, a lot of them are fun to play and easy to look at it. They are dated but the bottom line is fun factor. The thing that causes the most trouble here is, tons and tons of people will "Buy to try" and then if they don't like it, oh well, they already bought it. Record sales don't always reflect record value.
 
If Boon were listening to the fans, his next 3D game would be another Shaolin monks, but with more characters, longer gameplay, and ACTUAL VOICES FOIR SCORPION AND SUB-ZERO.
 

Tim Static

Adminerator
Does anybody ever think about why we (gamers my age-ish) love to play the old games?

look at the Wii's Virtual Console. Did those 8-bit & 16-bit games have the best graphics you've ever seen? NO. I mean, have you recently played Goldeneye? Seriously, it looks like shit now, lol.

People want to play games tha are fun, and entertaining and are simply enough to keep it moderately easy, and to keep them coming back.

I still to this day play Mario All-Stars everyday, Why? It never gets old to me. Simple, fun, addicting gameplay.

Kinda like MK.
 

Shock

Administrator
Premium Supporter
Every generation has things they will never give up because "it works for them" but there are some things that break through to the next generation and can be appreciated. This applies to everything, particularly music, sports, movies, even books. Generations sometimes only collectively appreciate the works of a single major source, or an entire generation will like a single type of music, a part of that group will only like specific bands or musicians. Some people only like 80s movies. The list goes on and on.
 

RoGE

Noob
That year contract is going to be one of the biggest kills in the game, is there any way they can get out of it?
 

HAYRON

Noob
Is it just me or has Ed Boon become the "Uwe Boll of fighting games" ?

Anyway, you can fully expect his head to get bigger after this one considering that sales are going to be even higher due to all of the hopeful DC fans ready to throw down.
 

mdsfx

Noob
I still to this day play Mario All-Stars everyday, Why? It never gets old to me. Simple, fun, addicting gameplay.

Kinda like MK.
I play older games all the time (I'm 25). Recent emulator confessions: Donkey Kong Country, Super Mario World, Waverace64, GoldenEye...

It's partially because those are the games my wife enjoys, but they're also very nostalgic for me. That's my main attraction to the MK series, Killer Instinct, etc. It reminds me of those good old arcade days! Every saturday man: Go to the arcade then get arby's! (they were right next to each other)
 

9.95

Noob
I play older games all the time (I'm 25). Recent emulator confessions: Donkey Kong Country, Super Mario World, Waverace64, GoldenEye...

It's partially because those are the games my wife enjoys, but they're also very nostalgic for me. That's my main attraction to the MK series, Killer Instinct, etc. It reminds me of those good old arcade days! Every saturday man: Go to the arcade then get arby's! (they were right next to each other)
Mike, please check your PM's, I need to talk to you.
 

Tim Static

Adminerator
Good gameplay gives a game ETERNAL life. :)

Is it just me or has Ed Boon become the "Uwe Boll of fighting games" ?

Anyway, you can fully expect his head to get bigger after this one considering that sales are going to be even higher due to all of the hopeful DC fans ready to throw down.
LOL, good one. :D
 
nice post through and through.

Chiro, very nice, can't agree more.

It all sucks because there's simply no faith for MK like there was in the mid-90's. The death of arcades are at hand, and just that certain "feeling" of walking into the loud-ass arcades and being blown away by the sheer brutality of MK and even Street Fighter alone. Fuck it, even TMNT: Turtles In Time was a FANTASTIC game back in the day. That, it being on a big screen projector, with superior sound. Now there's nothing like that now. HELLO! Those quarters were meant to spent!

So what the hell, is there any way to bring that back? I'd sell my damn soul for it.

but on topic. Hell no, to this bitch-move of an MK8... Maybe the entertainment factor will be there, but it will be complete trash after a week or so of its release. Some one take out the garbage (Ed Boon) and create something worth my money.