Match-up Discussion My Final Judgment on Sonya vs. Kitana

[HGTV Soapboxfan]

I'm only going to tell this to you guys: play Tom Brady or Denzell using your Sonyas against their Subs, then get back to me.

It's 5-5 also. The part where Death said that Sub-Zero can't corner Sonya is utter bullshit. With that Ice Clone, you have to be careful about rushing Sub-Zero down using her d4, and you can't zone too much or you get cornered and Sonya's only possible way out is EX Cartwheel. Oh, you can armor through his 2 1 2 string? Well then, just fake it out with 2 1 or use 2 1 4.

I actually had this as 6-4 Sub-Zero at one point, then changed my mind. That was over a year ago, LOL.

Doesn't Tom himself have this at 6 4 sonya? Or was that a while ago.

 

[GamerBlake90]

Doesn't Tom himself have this at 6 4 sonya? Or was that a while ago.

I was talking with him at a D-town Beatdown we went to back in July and I think I remember him saying it's 5-5. If I'm wrong, I'll let him correct me. He did admit to struggling in this match-up at one point. Now, he handles it very well. I've played plenty of good Sub-Zero players, but to me, none is greater than Tom's.

Maaaaan...if only someone had remembered to record our matches we had in that tournament, I'd whip the footage out and show you that Sub-Zero can indeed compete with Sonya.

HOWEVER, we're getting off-topic. This is about Sonya vs. Kitana, not Sonya vs. Sub-Zero.

 

[REO]

Doesn't Tom himself have this at 6 4 sonya? Or was that a while ago.

Tom had it at 6-4 for Sonya at NEC. It should be obvious as to why Sonya has the advantage. Safe armor vs Sub is huge.

 

[HGTV Soapboxfan]

Tom had it at 6-4 for Sonya at NEC. It should be obvious as to why Sonya has the advantage. Safe armor vs Sub is huge.

Thats what I thought. I agree it is a clear 6 -4. Ring and ex cartwheel are huge in this match.

 

[YOMI DJT]

I think its 6-4 sonya, its whatever ill talk to you about it a different time but DAMN you finally have JC vs Sub 5-5. Took long enough dude. What made you change your mind about that?

No I still have sub vs cage 6 4 sorry bro . I use to think it was 6-4 but the real number is 5-5 sub/sonya.
sub and sonya do d4 at same time sub will win it.
sonya does have faster projectile but if she gets predictable with it then sub can trade and the trade is in subs favor
its a lame match
if sub get the lead sonya has to come after him
she gets the lead sub has to come after her
ice clone and d4 really help sub vs sonya
the only time you seen me play it right is vs riu48
lame it out sub wins it
sonya gets in and she wins it
I've really been thinking about johnny cage vs sub and its the exact same thing
sub lames it out he wins
cage gets in he wins
Hmmmmmmm sub cage could really be a 5-5 interesting
sub outpokes sonya so she has to armor or try and catch the d4 with divekick not easy because his d4 is 8f neutral on block
she can divekick over and armor thru ice clone but sub doesn't have to wakeup with clone everytime
he can slide under sonya's projectile
this is very even when both players know the mu the more professional number I would say is 5-5
She has more damage but she wont have that many oppurtunities to do it because that d4 and ice clone.
its a battle of who can get the life lead very similar to cage mu.
Its a solid 5-5
Both dont want to be in the corner vs each other
she does have armor but it can be baited
with no meter she is stuck like majority of the cast with the exception of like kenshi or smoke
one last time 5-5 Brady agrees I wander what other high lvl sonya's think
but I can agree with 6-4 sonya very manageable for sub like a lots of his matches

 

[YOMI DJT]

6-4 Sonya. Ive played all the subs out there with the exception of Denzel and never had a problem with this MU. She out damages him by a lot and sub cant really corner her at all

so you're saying sub can "NEVER" corner sonya? LMAO

 

[CURBOLICOUS]

I'm only going to tell this to you guys: play Tom Brady or Denzell using your Sonyas against their Subs, then get back to me.

It's 5-5 also. The part where Death said that Sub-Zero can't corner Sonya is utter bullshit. With that Ice Clone, you have to be careful about rushing Sub-Zero down using her d4, and you can't zone too much or you get cornered and Sonya's only possible way out is EX Cartwheel. Oh, you can armor through his 2 1 2 string? Well then, just fake it out with 2 1 or use 2 1 4.

I actually had this as 6-4 Sub-Zero at one point, then changed my mind. That was over a year ago, LOL.

I don't care how you deal with the MU. I don't mash ex cartwheel to get out of strings 100% of the time.

 

[YOMI DJT]

Can sub OS sonya's armor with 212 ex slide? or d4 exslide? Her armor can be OS like johnny can do f3 exnutpunch on Sonya. I still think sonya sub is 5-5 I need to play other sonya players where are all the sonya players at tourny? you rarely see them

 

[CURBOLICOUS]

No I still have sub vs cage 6 4 sorry bro . I use to think it was 6-4 but the real number is 5-5 sub/sonya.
sub and sonya do d4 at same time sub will win it.
sonya does have faster projectile but if she gets predictable with it then sub can trade and the trade is in subs favor
its a lame match
if sub get the lead sonya has to come after him
she gets the lead sub has to come after her
ice clone and d4 really help sub vs sonya
the only time you seen me play it right is vs riu48
lame it out sub wins it
sonya gets in and she wins it
I've really been thinking about johnny cage vs sub and its the exact same thing
sub lames it out he wins
cage gets in he wins
Hmmmmmmm sub cage could really be a 5-5 interesting
sub outpokes sonya so she has to armor or try and catch the d4 with divekick not easy because his d4 is 8f neutral on block
she can divekick over and armor thru ice clone but sub doesn't have to wakeup with clone everytime
he can slide under sonya's projectile
this is very even when both players know the mu the more professional number I would say is 5-5
She has more damage but she wont have that many oppurtunities to do it because that d4 and ice clone.
its a battle of who can get the life lead very similar to cage mu.
Its a solid 5-5
Both dont want to be in the corner vs each other
she does have armor but it can be baited
with no meter she is stuck like majority of the cast with the exception of like kenshi or smoke
one last time 5-5 Brady agrees I wander what other high lvl sonya's think
but I can agree with 6-4 sonya very manageable for sub like a lots of his matches

That was a good post but you are leaving out alot of what sonya can do to sub.

 

[YOMI DJT]

That was a good post but you are leaving out alot of what sonya can do to sub.

yeah she can do her offense mixups armor thru strings divekick over clone abuse hit box etc etc but it isn't easy for sonya to get in. I think at the highest lvl sonya sub 5-5
I still think sub beats johnny 6-4
I think the johnny player can make it look even
Its a lame match and if both players know the mu
whoever is winning it will win by timeout mostly
sub can also OS sonya ex cartwheel with clone also on wakeup
I think Tom talked about it before

 

[CURBOLICOUS]

yeah she can do her offense mixups armor thru strings divekick over clone abuse hit box etc etc but it isn't easy for sonya to get in. I think at the highest lvl sonya sub 5-5
I still think sub beats johnny 6-4
I think the johnny player can make it look even
Its a lame match and if both players know the mu
whoever is winning it will win by timeout mostly
sub can also OS sonya ex cartwheel with clone also on wakeup
I think Tom talked about it before

Sonya wakeups are risking. Btw JC and Sub is 5-5 dude stop saying its 6-4 man cmon.

 

[YOMI DJT]

Tom had it at 6-4 for Sonya at NEC. It should be obvious as to why Sonya has the advantage. Safe armor vs Sub is huge.

Why is it obvious that sonya has the advantage?
Safe armor yes but you have to throw it out at the right times or you will be wasting meter
This is one of the matches that I've rarely seen or played because there are barely any sonya players
Its seems more like an obvious 5-5

 

[Jimmypotato]

Dude what is up with you? You think kitana goes even with sonya now you think sub-sonya isn't 6-4? Maybe I do need to pick sonya back up again.

Classic Serial Sonya Downplay CSSD, this is quite common in the MK Community,

Heres something I have noticed, with tons of Sonyas, not all mind you,

They play Sonya one way for ALL MATCH UPS, they do a Kind of auto pilot Sonya in each different match up, reason being, her cheep easy effective stuff works most of the time,

this makes them think wrong things about match ups, because when she is played this way it's super easy to blow her up and counter everything when you know exactly what they are going to do, some characters blow this stuff up easier then others, like Kitana, so they think it is 5-5, instead of using all the tools available to them to expose the other character and take their advantages.

Sonya is brain dead easy to use and doesn't force you to really dissect and learn each specific match up.

Either way, Mr Mil and Rev said it best, these are on paper numbers, not who played who when and did better.

think about it, 6-4 is back and forth for 10 matches with the exception of one match, so in reality it's only a small advantage, but it is there, and I really think you don't understand your character or the game properly if you truly believe Sonya has no advantage over Kitana in that match up.

*post disclaimer to avoid drama; This is not directed at any one player in particular, so please do not think i'm blowing anyone up,

 

[YOMI DJT]

Sonya wakeups are risking. Btw JC and Sub is 5-5 dude stop saying its 6-4 man cmon.

yes sonya wakeups are a risk and she doesn't have the best options for wakeups so If she can be too risky and neither can sub how is it a 6-4 sonya more a 5-5
If sonya beats sub then johnny sub 5-5 idk i'm just not seeing it.
sonya and johnny are similar I think
They both feel even
hmm sonya sub 5-5 my final conclusion and if we have disagreement will have to settle it on the monitor aha
sub vs johnny could possibly be 5-5
you know what my final conclusion on sub vs johnny is 6-4
what's you're explanation on why's its even? idk i want to call it even but I feel that sub does have the slight advantage.

 

[Sao87]

Sonya wakeups are risking. Btw JC and Sub is 5-5 dude stop saying its 6-4 man cmon.

I would put money on Denzell if you guys money matched cage vs sub to prove this 5-5 theory. DO IT BOI.

 

[GamerBlake90]

I wouldn't exactly say Sonya's wake-up game is weak, but let's be serious here. Wake-Ups are a 50/50 with literally every character.

 

[CURBOLICOUS]

yes sonya wakeups are a risk and she doesn't have the best options for wakeups so If she can be too risky and neither can sub how is it a 6-4 sonya more a 5-5
If sonya beats sub then johnny sub 5-5 idk i'm just not seeing it.
sonya and johnny are similar I think
They both feel even
hmm sonya sub 5-5 my final conclusion and if we have disagreement will have to settle it on the monitor aha
sub vs johnny could possibly be 5-5
you know what my final conclusion on sub vs johnny is 6-4
what's you're explanation on why's its even? idk i want to call it even but I feel that sub does have the slight advantage.

Sub can't really do anything. His dash sucks so JC can kinda sit back and watch sub slowly d4 his way in which can be baited and whiff punished. Also a thing I don't do alot but dizzy does more is d3 to get in. D3 beats d4 and also d4 on hit on a crouching opponent is only +5 and sub zero cant get a 212 string because it pushes JC to far back and allows JC to duck under 212. If the JC player isn't stupid he shouldn't give you free combos and should make u come to him. Any iceclone at the end of a block string can be punished with ex shadow kick.

 

[CURBOLICOUS]

I would put money on Denzell if you guys money matched cage vs sub to prove this 5-5 theory. DO IT BOI.

I can make it look 6-4 you would lose you money boy

 

[THTB]

16 bit literally made the Kenshi vs Kitana fight at FF look 6-4 Kenshi, not 8-2 Kenshi.

Oh man no he didn't. That shit looked 8-2, no matter what Bit even did lol.

 

[YOMI DJT]

Sub can't really do anything. His dash sucks so JC can kinda sit back and watch sub slowly d4 his way in which can be baited and whiff punished. Also a thing I don't do alot but dizzy does more is d3 to get in. D3 beats d4 and also d4 on hit on a crouching opponent is only +5 and sub zero cant get a 212 string because it pushes JC to far back and allows JC to duck under 212. If the JC player isn't stupid he shouldn't give you free combos and should make u come to him. Any iceclone at the end of a block string can be punished with ex shadow kick.

this is interesting because I babied you at evo so it has to be 6-4 sub (I still lost that set) lol but seriously i've been thinking a lot about this match sometime my bro beats my sub with johnny and I beat his sub with johnny too sometimes. yes MIT's sub is good he know hella characters. this match makes me think. pretty convincing I like it. its a fun lame match. hmm my final new conclusion for now is sub cage is 5-5 . yeah I said it new shocking news on what I now think about this mu. we all got to be professional about these mu and not personal. its just a number anyways aha 6-4s and 5-5 are just too close. i'm bipolar and I still think the mu is 6-4 sub

 

[Sao87]

I can make it look 6-4 you would lose you money boy

You made it look 7-3 last time you ran into him.

 

[Mr. Mileena]

Oh man no he didn't. That shit looked 8-2, no matter what Bit even did lol.

a match where 16 bit lost 2-3, in which some rounds were super close, doesnt look like an 8-2 (even though on paper it is)

16 bit is that good, he no longer got 3-0'ed or 3-1'ed freely.

 

[YOMI DJT]

I can make it look 6-4 you would lose you money boy

we should do that money match for fun because we always have hype but boring because the mu sets.

 

[YOMI DJT]

i'm still just not feeling sub vs cage being 5-5. I'm back to 6-4 sub. I think you take the sub cage mu too personally. 6-4 is just a number. sub can d3 too. both have 7f d3s. I think p1 adv comes into play when if they both d3 at the same time. 6-4 sub

 

[GamerBlake90]

Denzell CURBOLICOUS

Not trying to nit-pick, but you're derailing the thread a bit. This is a discussion for Sonya vs. Kitana, not for Cage vs. Sub-Zero.