"Must I remind you of my superiority?" - Lex Luthor General Discussion (Version 1.06)

[T4T|Nevan]

If he has trait he blows up shield, I think.

 

[Tony at Home]

Yeah, his trait will disperse shields even if you block.

Its the biggest amount of bullshit in the game since Aquaman's "get-out-of-Lex's-super-with-trait" was removed.

Its obviously an oversight. Lex is the only character in the game that can have armor while he is not attacking. Everyone else that has armor only has it during special attacks. So they seemed to forget that when Lex has armor, he could be blocking- hence Superman's trait disperses Lex's armor on the assumption that only attacks have armor- Lex was kinda forgotten there- same with Aquaman's trait when they made a super-move with a multi-hit combo startup

But to cheer us up, here's video of Lex getting free shields against that Super Clark fellow.

 

[T4T|Nevan]

LIKE A BAWS! HAHA

 

[Tony at Home]

Some stuff I've been toying around with:

Midscreen: if a regular probe is out, at maximum f2 distance, you can hit-confirm an f2 into a MB grav pull for a full combo, much the same way you can hit confirm a 112 without having to cancel it for the confirm

If the probe hits after your f2 connects, it will hit the enemy and stop them short, and pop them up a bit, so they don't fly out of range of your MB grav pull.

At the same distance you can usually do this with a d3, but you need to be quick.

I already mentioned somewhere in the corner you can use regular probes to get a full combo off a d3, but you have to do it early so your risk getting d1'd and they'll still be able to block the probe shot after.
What you can do is end a corner combo with regular probe, and then if you time it right, you can do either a b2 or b1 that cancels into an upward lance blast, then release the lance blast the moment you get to level 2 charge.

This allows you to combo a low (b1) or an overhead (b2) into an upward level 2 lance blast for a meterless launcher. If either the b1 or b2 connects, the probe will hit in the middle of b1/b2 xx Upward Lance Blast level 2.
You don't need to do the b1 or b2 as early as the d3 for the full meterless combo (in fact if you do it to early, it won't combo with the probe into lance blast), so that means you can wait to be sure the opponent is going to block the probe, and if they poke you out, they won't be able to block the probe and you'll either get a full combo or at least a free 50/50.

The positives of this:
It makes Lex's corner vortex meterless, and doesn't sacrifice any damage- normally, Lex needed to use meter to combo off a b1 (low) and only got meterless damage off an overhead. If an opponent sees Lex has no bars left, the mixup is obvious and they'll block high.
Level 2 upward Lance blast is around +5 on block and has good pushback- you will be at advantage at a range where only Lex' normals generally can reach.

The negatives of this:
If you do a b1 and cancel it into upwards lance blast, and the opponent successfully blocks low, the upward lance blast will whiff at level 2- you either need to backdash cancel it or hope you can get to level 3 before an opponent is able to respond. HOWEVER, if you by chance used meterburn probes, you are guaranteed to get to level 3 and get a free 13% damage- however it doesn't give you enough advantage for another setup- anything you do won't be safe from a wakeup.



I'm still on the fence whether I should be doing this or not. One the one hand- it's a meterless corner vortex- on the other it's unsafe if they block a low from the 50/50: it turns into a guessing game based on whether or not I'll expect them to try and interrupt and release lance blast early or wait for a full charge.


Sample combo:
b1 (probe hit) Lv.2 Upward Lance Blast, 11, 11, u3 xx Probe
b2 (probe hit) Lv.2 Upward Lance Blast, 11, 11, u3 xx Probe

 

[T4T|Nevan]

This is really interesting!

It's seems a general trait of Lex, most of his setups and options to follow, are dependent on whats the op reaction to said setup. However this is really good, because we are getting to a point where we are able to convert, damage or setups, out of every tool Lex has at his disposal.

TECHNOLOGY!

 

[rev0lver]

lex has a guaranteed reset

shhhh

 

[Tony at Home]

lex has a guaranteed reset

shhhh

Fortress of solitude: unblockable reset

(corner combo) F2, b2, 11, 11, u3 (teleporter)

close-grav-mine, 1, d3, MB mine detonate

(combo counter resets, MB mine detonation OTG's the opponent)

then continue the combo, 11, 11, u3, [ender]

I'm actually quite sure this is an infinite so long as Lex has meter. However I haven't tested this with a human, only an AI set to auto-block.

**EDIT**

wakeups appear to get out of this... It is unblockable, but can still be armored through. Can't find a way to get the mine to detonate after wakeup frames, but there may be a way.

 

[rev0lver]

Fortress of solitude: unblockable reset

(corner combo) F2, b2, 11, 11, u3 (teleporter)

close-grav-mine, 1, d3, MB mine detonate

(combo counter resets, MB mine detonation OTG's the opponent)

then continue the combo, 11, 11, u3, [ender]

I'm actually quite sure this is an infinite so long as Lex has meter. However I haven't tested this with a human, only an AI set to auto-block.

oh. that's interesting lol.

I was talking about mb probe into lvl 3 laser after knockdown. i realized that if you release uplance a little bit before it would automatically go, you'll still get the lvl 3 and can combo with probes in the corner. with trait against single-hitting wakeups it's guaranteed, you just have to react if they jump and release lance (and some floaty jumps will get hit by the probes anyway).

 

[ShadowBeatz]

lex has a guaranteed reset

shhhh

I heard Cyrax! Tell me tell me tell me tell me (PM me if you have to )

EDIT: Nvm, got it

 

[Tony at Home]

oh. that's interesting lol.

I was talking about mb probe into lvl 3 laser after knockdown. i realized that if you release uplance a little bit before it would automatically go, you'll still get the lvl 3 and can combo with probes in the corner. with trait against single-hitting wakeups it's guaranteed, you just have to react if they jump and release lance (and some floaty jumps will get hit by the probes anyway).

I've actually been fiddling a bit with that today

See my last three posts here : http://testyourmight.com/threads/time-to-step-up-your-game-self-shielding.39362/

To sum it up though, you can set this up by using a combo off MB probes to shield mid-combo, and end with a probe, so you have BOTH shields and probe out at the end of the combo;

(following combo ending with MB probes)
b1 xx Trait Dash (probes hit) 11, 11, u3 xx Probe
b2 xx Trait Dash (probes hit) 11, 11, u3 xx Probe

That gets you both level 2 trait and puts a probe out.

After that Lex can then do a:

(low) b1 xx Upward Lance Blast Charge
(overhead) b2 xx Upward Lance Blast Charge

If the initial b1/b2 50/50 connects, you release the Upward Lance Blast at Level 2 which allows you to full combo into 11, 11, u3 xx Lex Probe. The probe hit chains the initial b1/b2 into the level 2 upward blast, so its a single combo.

If the initial b1/b2 50/50 is blocked, because you have shields, the opponent either has to try to mash out- shields will absorb the hit, and they'll get Lance Blasted into a full combo, OR they will have to wait and Lex can go into a Level 3 unblockable for guaranteed damage: you'll knock the enemy down and when they get up, you will STILL have trait on

 

[rev0lver]

I've actually been fiddling a bit with that today

See my last three posts here : http://testyourmight.com/threads/time-to-step-up-your-game-self-shielding.39362/

To sum it up though, you can set this up by using a combo off MB probes to shield mid-combo, and end with a probe, so you have BOTH shields and probe out at the end of the combo;

(following combo ending with MB probes)
b1 xx Trait Dash (probes hit) 11, 11, u3 xx Probe
b2 xx Trait Dash (probes hit) 11, 11, u3 xx Probe

That gets you both level 2 trait and puts a probe out.

After that Lex can then do a:

(low) b1 xx Upward Lance Blast Charge
(overhead) b2 xx Upward Lance Blast Charge

If the initial b1/b2 50/50 connects, you release the Upward Lance Blast at Level 2 which allows you to full combo into 11, 11, u3 xx Lex Probe. The probe hit chains the initial b1/b2 into the level 2 upward blast, so its a single combo.

If the initial b1/b2 50/50 is blocked, because you have shields, the opponent either has to try to mash out- shields will absorb the hit, and they'll get Lance Blasted into a full combo, OR they will have to wait and Lex can go into a Level 3 unblockable for guaranteed damage: you'll knock the enemy down and when they get up, you will STILL have trait on

Yeah, I've been trying to work on that too. I just need to work on meter management and stuff more because I throw mb probes out a lot to just set up trait in open space.

With the laser thing though, I meant that if you time the lvl 3 laser right, it will hit BEFORE the second probe and you can keep juggling off the unblockable rather than just frametrapping them. Idk if this was intentional from the probe buff.

I tested out the Fortress reset and it looks swaggy as fuck so I'll probably use it but I think they can wakeup out of it. The mb mine does otg but if you do it too early it won't. Maybe there's like a window between when it can otg and when they can wakeup, but I couldn't time it to work. I kind of want to test it out unpatched because I know there was an infinite with his mines and that might've been it (since you could mb them meterless before).

 

[Tony at Home]

Yeah, I haven't found a way to get around wakeups yet.

The best I have is a way too make it safe against most wakeups (so far, it is safe against Flash's 11 frame Lightning Dash), so if they have no safe wakeups, it is effectively a 1-meter reset.

So this should actually be an infinite on Batman, because all his wakeups are unsafe:

Just an example:
f2,b2,11,11,u3 (teleport interactible) close mine, d2 xx Corps Charge, detonate mine (walk forward a little bit), 11,11,u3 (teleport interactible) repeat till meter is gone.

So Batman's only way out would be to do his punishable wakeup, or deal with the OTG mine detonation. Lex is able to detonate the mine, and block afterwards, so its safe. I found it was safe even if it was an 11 frame wakeup (Flash's lightning charge).

So this may very well be an infinite, but wake-up dependent.

If it cost no meter to MB the mine, this would be a complete infinite on characters with no safe wakeup options, maybe it was the infinite you heard about.

In any case, my new favorite map is Fortress of Solitude

 

[rev0lver]

Ohhh yeah. I forgot that you can hit certain chars out of their wakeups lol. Have you tested if they can backdash it though?

Fortress is definitely my second pick next to arkham mess hall. It just sucks getting transitioned

 

[Tony at Home]

Ohhh yeah. I forgot that you can hit certain chars out of their wakeups lol. Have you tested if they can backdash it though?

So for a basic corner combo into the setup:

f2, b2, 11, 11, u3 xx (teleporter-interactible-thingy) Close Gravity Mine, d2 xx Corp Charge, MB Gravity Mine

They can't backlash it, because it hits them while they are still on the ground. The Corp Charge prevents them from tech-rolling, which would normally mess things up. The MB mine will only OTG them when they are flat on the ground- if they are tech rolling it won't hit, even if they don't do a wakeup.

Any non-projectile wakeup will armor through it, but if d2 xx Corp Charge is timed correctly, you can safely detonate the mine afterwards and still be able to block a wakeup. I've found if you do a d3 and then detonate the mine, it's punishable by a lot of wake ups.

The timing is actually a bit strict, so I don't think this is really all that viable

With the laser thing though, I meant that if you time the lvl 3 laser right, it will hit BEFORE the second probe and you can keep juggling off the unblockable rather than just frametrapping them. Idk if this was intentional from the probe buff.

Gonna try this out!

 

[Tony at Home]

On a side note- a particular strategy my opponents like to use is killing me:

Never blocking and constantly mashing d1, with the occasional forward jump. This seems to kill Lex, or at least me playing as Lex online.

Lex is only +7 after his d+1, so he actually doesn't get a free 50/50 off it. My mixup will get hit out by a 6-frame d+1. Lex's fastest hitting mid-string simply trades so both players get hit. And Lex's 11 will whiff and get me d+1'd into the opponent's 50/50.

There's almost zero reason for an enemy not to just continually mash out d+1's no matter how many times I hit them with it. My only option is to go for a d+1 xx Grav Pull cancel, which is hugely risky, unsafe, and doesn't do much damage because of the weak-as-hell d+1 starter.

The only time they have to actually respect Lex's 50/50 is if they are out of range of their own d+1 but not Lex's which has farther reach. Any other time, they can just force me to start risking d+1 Grav Pull cancels, which if they bait usually leads to much higher damage than I would get.

To make matters worse, If I somehow get to that magical spot, where only I'm in range of a d+1 so they have to respect my slow-ass 50/50, if they decide to just go ahead and jump at me, and I'm using my b13 low-string, I'll whiff it and they'll get a full combo on me. This happens all the time with Batman players. The second I d+1 them, they'll just jump at me and if I used my +7 frame advantage to do a b13 for my 50/50, I'll get full combo'd into Batman's MB Grapple vortex all day.

*end of salty rant*

 

[rev0lver]

So for a basic corner combo into the setup:

f2, b2, 11, 11, u3 xx (teleporter-interactible-thingy) Close Gravity Mine, d2 xx Corp Charge, MB Gravity Mine

They can't backlash it, because it hits them while they are still on the ground. The Corp Charge prevents them from tech-rolling, which would normally mess things up. The MB mine will only OTG them when they are flat on the ground- if they are tech rolling it won't hit, even if they don't do a wakeup.

Any non-projectile wakeup will armor through it, but if d2 xx Corp Charge is timed correctly, you can safely detonate the mine afterwards and still be able to block a wakeup. I've found if you do a d3 and then detonate the mine, it's punishable by a lot of wake ups.

This looks really good, so it's guaranteed if they only have unsafe wakeups? Also, I won't be able to test it out and stuff, so if you do the d2~cc setup will you still be able to hit them out of non-invincible wakeups?

Never blocking and constantly mashing d1, with the occasional forward jump. This seems to kill Lex, or at least me playing as Lex online.

Lex is only +7 after his d+1, so he actually doesn't get a free 50/50 off it. My mixup will get hit out by a 6-frame d+1. Lex's fastest hitting mid-string simply trades so both players get hit. And Lex's 11 will whiff and get me d+1'd into the opponent's 50/50.

There's almost zero reason for an enemy not to just continually mash out d+1's no matter how many times I hit them with it. My only option is to go for a d+1 xx Grav Pull cancel, which is hugely risky, unsafe, and doesn't do much damage because of the weak-as-hell d+1 starter.

The only time they have to actually respect Lex's 50/50 is if they are out of range of their own d+1 but not Lex's which has farther reach. Any other time, they can just force me to start risking d+1 Grav Pull cancels, which if they bait usually leads to much higher damage than I would get.

To make matters worse, If I somehow get to that magical spot, where only I'm in range of a d+1 so they have to respect my slow-ass 50/50, if they decide to just go ahead and jump at me, and I'm using my b13 low-string, I'll whiff it and they'll get a full combo on me. This happens all the time with Batman players. The second I d+1 them, they'll just jump at me and if I used my +7 frame advantage to do a b13 for my 50/50, I'll get full combo'd into Batman's MB Grapple vortex all day.

*end of salty rant*

Being slightly away from them is definitely best. If you're just a little bit outside you can look for d1's and other short range stuff to whiff punish with corp charge. So like, staying where they can respect your options more works best so you can get more opportunities to trait up, which I like over using normal pressure.

But when that stuff does happen, you don't have to stick with 50/50's or d1~vacuum (which they can poke out of anyway). 22d1 gives you some spacing to get more options, which they can't poke out of after a d1 on hit. Even just 2 by itself so you're not unsafe on backdashes and will catch jumps for a full combo.

 

[Tony at Home]

So first, the bad news:

Ok, so the meterburn mine OTG reset is actually crap.

I thought I had a way to make it safe, but it turns out I was accidentally adjusting the timing of the explosion based on the AI's state. They can always get out of it with an armored wake-up. For d2-corp charge, if you detonate the mine immediately afterwards, it will be safe and you can punish wakeups, HOWEVER that same detonation timing will be too early if they don't wakeup and won't OTG them. For the reset, you have to guess they won't wake up, which means its actually an unsafe reset.

That's right, despite being able to get an OTG reset, the Meterburning the mine is STILL one of the biggest wastes of meter in this game

 

[Tony at Home]

NOW FOR THE REALLY GOOD NEWS

LEX HAS AN INFINITEEEEEEEEE.

Ok, so rev0lver found a reset where if you have shields, you can use the meterburn lance blast and MB probes to get a guaranteed full combo. By having shields, its a guaranteed reset, because if they try to hit you out of it, they'll just hit your shields and you can react by letting go of the lance blast- and you can get a full combo off even a level 2 upwards lance blast. So even multihit wakeups can get stuffed by this if the Lex player can react at least before the second hit. I set a Deathstroke AI to wakeup randomly and found I could react to both Sword Flip and sword Spin fast enough so they would take away my shields, but eat the lance blast before the second hit connected.

So the issue is this would be hard to set up. Because you need shields and MB probes out.

So I found a way to get shields mid-combo, end with MB probes into this setup, and then go into a full combo which would ALSO get shields mid-combo, so this can be looped INFINITELY! Well, so long as you have a bar of meter, but what I also found is this infinite loop uses moves that build a TON OF METER. You gain almost a half bar for every bar you spend. And if you run out, you can still use regular probes and go for a 50/50 meterless reset using b2 xx upward lance blast or b1 xx upward lance blast.

This is ONLY possible on Fortress of Solitude using the teleporter interactible on the far right.

Here's how it goes, I will use asterisks for footnotes because it gets complex.

f2, b2, 11, 11, u3 xx Teleporter, Close Gravity Mine, 1 xx Trait* xx Forward Dash, u3 xx MB Probes**, Level 3 Upward Lance Blast***, 11, 11, Teleporter****, Close Gravity Mine, 1 xx Trait***** xx Forward Dash, u3 xx MB Probes, Level 3 Upward Lance Blast, 11, 11, Teleporter (AND REPEAT)

* Only charge trait to LEVEL 1. Do not charge to level 2- so release the trait button the second you reach level 1. By only traiting up to level 1, you ensure that trait will wear off immediately after your Level 3 Upward Lance Blast, and will be back and ready to use by the next time you need to do it.
For the '1 xx Trait' the '1' should hit the enemy BEFORE they land in the mine.

** After the forward dash, DO NOT do u3 xx MB Probes immediately. Wait for Lex to come fully out of his dash animation, and then do the u3. You should have no problem with this as the timing is lenient so long as you where fast on the trait-dash-cancel. The reason you don't want to be too quick to do the u3 is you want to let your shields wear out a little. I found if I did this too fast, I wouldn't always have shields back in time to do the quick 1 xx Trait I needed to in order to continue indefinitely

*** Remember, UPWARDS lance blast. This comes out faster than the regular version, and is MUCH easier to combo off of. If you see the opponent do a wakeup, or any regular attack, make sure you release the lance blast- as the the level 2 lance blast will still allow you to get the full combo you need, and the MB probes will help juggle them afterwards.

**** Do not CANCEL into the teleporter from the 11 before it. Your shields still need that extra fraction of a second before they are available again, and you get this by hitting the interactible teleporter while the enemy is still in the air after the first 11, but not as a direct cancel. This ensures your shields will be available JUST as Lex is ready to cancel 1 xx Trait after the close gravity mine he throws out after the enemy emerges from the teleporter.

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

infinite doesn't work on shazam

shazam top 5

 

[Tony at Home]

infinite doesn't work on shazam

shazam top 5

Yeah, lol probably shoulda tested him. his wake ups get outa all of lexs setups....

*EDIT*

Just took a look at it myself, and tech roll + Atlas Torpedo on wakeup gets out of it entirely free.

There's probably several characters (Scorpion and Ares with behind-teleports come to mind) that can get out of the infinite loop, but will give Lex a big meterless punish for doing so because of the MB Probes. Shazaam gets out without being punished though.

 

[rev0lver]

infinite doesn't work on shazam

shazam top 5

and that's why i hate that mu lol. he can get out of like everything. it at least works on a good amount of the cast though.

broke stuff

the best part about this is that no one will know until someone hits it at a tournament because there's like 4 people who read this forum. i still use the d2 missiles reset a lot and everyone tries to wakeup.

even 11 resets are 33/33/33's and not 50/50's but people still just stand there lol. i like people not knowing our tech.

 

[imblackjames]

so im definitely glad i came back from my hiatus and started playing lex again lol

ive been gone so long that i forgot his corps charge was unclashable

 

[rev0lver]

LtLuthor only problem. have you tried to see if they can pushblock the first probe?

 

[Tony at Home]

LtLuthor only problem. have you tried to see if they can pushblock the first probe?

I haven't tested that lol. It would be crazy if they could push block a probe, but I will check to make sure.

Can't test it now since I'm on vacation, but I'll try it when I get back to my apartment.

....but I swear, if I find out probes can be push blocked, I will throw my Xbox 360 out the window while the Injustice disc is still spinning inside it...

 

[Tony at Home]

Also, another thing I've been meaning to test...

I think the original setup came from imblackjames :

Ending a combo with an u3 xx upward lance blast dash cancel, assuming the opponent didn't tech roll, would create an ambiguous cross up that would reverse the opponent's controls so it would be hard to wake-up and block. It actually puts Lex on the other side of the opponent, but then he snaps back to the other side.

I tried this in the corner once on the watch tower, and found for that split second that Lex was on the other side of the opponent, you could actually activate the corner interactible (the ship launch that creates the fire) and then you would snap back so the opponent was still in the corner.

If you are quick enough, you can do this with a trait-dash cancel.

So what I was trying was something like:

b13 xx MB Grav Pull, F3, U3 xx Trait xx Forward Dash

For a half-second after the forward dash, it will consider Lex to be the character in the corner, and you can press the interactible and use it before it snaps Lex back to in front of the enemy. So you get to use the interactible, but you don't lose the advantage of having the enemy cornered.

I don't actually know what advantage this has. On the stage I tried it in particular it did create a scary situation where there was a traited-up Lex with a barrier of flames behind him, but there's not much use to it apart from doing 18% damage to an enemy that tries to jump out.

I'm thinking, however, it might have some use for other corner-interactibles. I'll experiment with it more once I'm back from vacation, but some of you might want to toy around with it. Could be nothing- but might have some hidden potential.