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More MKX News, Beyond KP2, On The Horizon, Koming Today

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roosTakk

roosTakk

Chode Juggler
God Confirm said:
It's hilarious how hard these people argued this shit. If this does happen and netcode gets significantly improved, I'm going to go back through and quote all the absolute morons repeatiing over and over that the netcode couldn't be improved like they had any idea of the state of technology in 2015 and refusing to listen to ANY logic on the matter. I've seen it said over and over and over on here.
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Lol please do, same shit irritated me too. Nothing worse than a confident moron =/
 
DeathTouch

DeathTouch

Iceman
I truly hope we get better online. I have always had a true love for the MK Franchise, but only frustrations of last games netcode made me not get so heavily in the online scene for MK X. If this will be a gamechanger, everyone will benefit from it.
 
just_2swift

just_2swift

MK1 is the best MK period.
Horizon....... in the pic with Lao and Kotal that stage lighting has been altered.... Looks darker... Like the sun is setting.... on the horizon.... hmmmmmmmm
 
EMPEROR PRYCE

EMPEROR PRYCE

WAR SEASON "THE WEAK EXPOSED!"
The more I think about it, the more it makes sense that this would be about the netcode and GGPO.

Obviously this would take immense amounts of coding to produce, but if they're going to announce something then 9/10 its already finished and ready to launch.

SFV is on the horizon and a lot of stuff NRS has been doing lately seems to go against SFV and NRS making sure their community stays in tact while SFV launches.

Boon has dodged nearly every question asked to him about MKXs netcode and I firmly believe it's for good reason. He knows he will lose fans if players cant have an enjoyable online experience on his fighting game but can on SFV, so before SFV drops its time to take action.

I think that action is GGPO and KP2.

Tomorrow we get the news though... Let's wait and see...
 
S

StealthyMuffin

Earth's Mightiest Knucklehead
Can we all just agree that nobody has any actual clue as to what netcode does or how it could possibly be changed/replaced? Lol
Unless there is actually some expert among us... is there?
 
Via_Negativa

Via_Negativa

Darkforge
Coming from a Software development background and working in the industry. Personally I think the claim that "we can't change it cause it's built into the engine." has always been a bit of an excuse. I have no doubt it's a lot of work, but impossible has always seemed to be a bit of a stretch. No budget to justify the work, man hours GGPO license more like it.

If it's true and it's going to be changed, then I will start playing this game again seriously and give NRS more money for the KP2.

If not. I'll be pretty pissed off Boon would troll/tease/Joke about this thing, and they wont be getting any more of my money until they get on top of this. After all the lies, over the years and how important online play is too a fighting game at this point, I'll likely not support NRS at all in future until I have had confirmation they have finally got their shit together in this regard.

I really liked this game, but with a limited scene down in this part of the world I couldn't justify spending any significant amount of time on it due to the online just being a totally different game.

If he's trolling he might want to start fearing for his life if it's bad news tomorrow. Haha.
 
IrishMantis

IrishMantis

Most humble shit talker ever!!!
Now with all the excitement are having we need to realise something first:
This is not going to work clean of the bat, so expect a lot ironing to be done
 
dotunderscore

dotunderscore

._
Via_Negativa said:
Coming from a Software development background and working in the industry. Personally I think the claim that "we can't change it cause it's built into the engine." has always been a bit of an excuse. I have no doubt it's a lot of work, but impossible has always seemed to be a bit of a stretch. No budget to justify the work, man hours GGPO license more like it.

If it's true and it's going to be changed, then I will start playing this game again seriously and give NRS more money for the KP2.
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With the budget that NRS has it is awesome to see them putting it back into the game and innovating (first Unreal Engine game with GGPO I believe?). If this is what having guest characters gets us - bring on Harry Potter for KP3!
 
d3v

d3v

SRK
StealthyMuffin said:
Is there a reason why "netcode" would be difficult to replace or alter?

Doesn't GGPO only effect networking? Couldn't it be applied to anything?

From your outside observations, is it possible to judge why MKX's current online situation is garbage?
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Usually, a game needs to be built with rollback netcode in mind, or else it risks suffering from performance bottlenecks. Even implementing GGPO on emulated games can cause performance issues if the devs don't have access to the source code (which is the case with 3S on GGPO and FightCade).

Each peer on GGPO is actually running 2 separate games, the one the players see that runs without receiving inputs and confirmation from the other peer, and another a few frames behind that does. When desyncs occur, the visible game then rolls back to the 2nd one (using save sates).

If they are implementing GGPO, then it means that they're doing a massive overhaul.
dotunderscore said:
With the budget that NRS has it is awesome to see them putting it back into the game and innovating (first Unreal Engine game with GGPO I believe?). If this is what having guest characters gets us - bring on Harry Potter for KP3!
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GGPO yes, rollback netcode, no since SFV is on UE4.
 
Krackatoa

Krackatoa

BEES? BEES!
StealthyMuffin said:
From your outside observations, is it possible to judge why MKX's current online situation is garbage?
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MKX's issues is that it uses delay-based netplay. Input latency based on connection quality means that combo timing, height-specific juggles, just-frame punishes, anti-airs, etc all have their timing windows moved about based on however fast you can get your opponent's inputs from their client.

Having GGPO, there is no input latency, since the game simulates, by counting all inputs as held on the following frames until inputs are received, and then error corrects. You need to put up with slight "rollbacks" or "corrections", but it makes punishing attacks drastically easier.

GGPO will not fix invisible overhead/low mixups that are mere gimmicks offline, but you're going to see marked improvements in certain aspects of gameplay.
 
Tony at Home

Tony at Home

Master
StealthyMuffin said:
Is there a reason why "netcode" would be difficult to replace or alter?

Doesn't GGPO only effect networking? Couldn't it be applied to anything?

From your outside observations, is it possible to judge why MKX's current online situation is garbage?
Click to expand...
GGPO required the game to output save states. So at one point during the game loop, it needs to take a snapshot of everything in some form, store. I'm kinda at a loss at how to explain how game loops work without writing an essay littered with code snippets though....

What you'll hear from most people is this then requires a "bottom up" solution. That is, when you are programming the logic of the game you need to keep in mind that the game must be generating save states. Not something you can tack on after the fact.

Not saying it isn't impossible, but definitely hard. If NRS managed to pull it off I'd be extremely curious to learn how they did it via patching.

*edit*
Found an article on ge loops that gives a pretty good description
http://gamedevelopment.tutsplus.com/articles/gamedev-glossary-what-is-the-game-loop--gamedev-2469

So imagine instead of going from the update to draw step, you instead sometimes went from update, to another update (to resync), and then draw, based on some piece of logic. In non GGPO you don't need to do that. They're not out of sync because you waited until they were, at the expense of input delay
 
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Immortal

Immortal

Blind justice....
d3v said:
Usually, a game needs to be built with rollback netcode in mind, or else it risks suffering from performance bottlenecks. Even implementing GGPO on emulated games can cause performance issues if the devs don't have access to the source code (which is the case with 3S on GGPO and FightCade).

Each peer on GGPO is actually running 2 separate games, the one the players see that runs without receiving inputs and confirmation from the other peer, and another a few frames behind that does. When desyncs occur, the visible game then rolls back to the 2nd one (using save sates).

If they are implementing GGPO, then it means that they're doing a massive overhaul.

GGPO yes, rollback netcode, no since SFV is on UE4.
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That's true, not to mention it was never done before with Unreal Engine 3.X. The only logical explanation is that they been working on GGPO implementation for longer period of time now. Possibly even before the MK X was done but not soon enough to release it on April.

Also i would assume that ESL has something to do with that, since like it was shown many times over online in current implementation isn't good enough for serious online competitive tournaments.

I'm still sorta skeptical since i work in the industry but not i'm not gonna lie - would love to see that happen. GGPO FTW.
 
JesterSMX

JesterSMX

It's too laggy to poke...
I've worked in technology for over a decade and a change like this is no easy task. I'm just glad that they admitted that they fell short (even though sfv is 3-4 weeks away so the timing is a little "convenient. ") Implementation to change code across the MILLIONS of consoles seamlessly is impossible. Get NRS customer service on speed dial and start working on excuses for losing other than lag.
 
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