More MKX News, Beyond KP2, On The Horizon, Koming Today

[Via_Negativa]

Tekken 7 is also using Namco's rollback netcode in the arcade and is UE4 as well. According to aris it's the first time he has played an online game where it's felt like he was playing offline with a constant stream of skill matched online opponents. (although that was in Japan.)

 

[StealthyMuffin]

GGPO required the game to output save states. So at one point during the game loop, it needs to take a snapshot of everything in some form, store. I'm kinda at a loss at how to explain how game loops work without writing an essay littered with code snippets though....

What you'll hear from most people is this then requires a "bottom up" solution. That is, when you are programming the logic of the game you need to keep in mind that the game must be generating save states. Not something you can tack on after the fact.

Not saying it isn't impossible, but definitely hard. If NRS managed to pull it off I'd be extremely curious to learn how they did it via patching.

*edit*
Found an article on ge loops that gives a pretty good description
http://gamedevelopment.tutsplus.com/articles/gamedev-glossary-what-is-the-game-loop--gamedev-2469

So imagine instead of going from the update to draw step, you instead sometimes went from update, to another update (to resync), and then draw, based on some piece of logic. In non GGPO you don't need to do that. They're not out of sync because you waited until they were, at the expense of input delay

Oh, okay. I never considered the extra work that would be needed to consistently generate and store save states.
That's not as in-depth as I would have preferred, but thank you for answering. You cleared some stuff up.

 

[Decay]

If there will be less lag, how will half of these mileena players online get their wins anymore??

 

[Decay]

Goro Gains Pretty Obvious

 

[evolution07]

If there will be less lag, how will half of these mileena players online get their wins anymore??

I hate that character. She can be fun to use, but to fight is a pain. I find it worse than Quan or Tanya. All mileena players do is ball roll, d2. Telekick, d2. U blocked? Ex roll, d2. Sai throw. Repeat.

With the new netcode coming, it's a bit of a timing thing for NRS as SF5 is not too far way and I'm sure they want to be able to retain their playerbase.

 

[Hexin_Wishes]

Well maybe if they buffed my girl up then there wouldn't be a stock strategy for online play.

 

[TotteryManx]

GGPO required the game to output save states. So at one point during the game loop, it needs to take a snapshot of everything in some form, store. I'm kinda at a loss at how to explain how game loops work without writing an essay littered with code snippets though....

What you'll hear from most people is this then requires a "bottom up" solution. That is, when you are programming the logic of the game you need to keep in mind that the game must be generating save states. Not something you can tack on after the fact.

Not saying it isn't impossible, but definitely hard. If NRS managed to pull it off I'd be extremely curious to learn how they did it via patching.

*edit*
Found an article on ge loops that gives a pretty good description
http://gamedevelopment.tutsplus.com/articles/gamedev-glossary-what-is-the-game-loop--gamedev-2469

So imagine instead of going from the update to draw step, you instead sometimes went from update, to another update (to resync), and then draw, based on some piece of logic. In non GGPO you don't need to do that. They're not out of sync because you waited until they were, at the expense of input delay

This post says everything. Except one thing; If they did pull this off, we're looking at a massive download file.

 

[iSuckAtFightingGames]

This makes no sense...

SGMKXGKPSPO are the first letters of each word.... so yeah.. there IS NO MESSAGE here...

 

[TotteryManx]

If there will be less lag, how will half of these mileena players online get their wins anymore??

The netcode changing isn't going to help people learn MU's lol. 8 frame roll is a 8 frame roll. Stop spamming d3 when you're negative lol.

 

[evolution07]

Well maybe if they buffed my girl up then there wouldn't be a stock strategy for online play.

How about using her properly

 

[Renzokuken]

This makes no sense...

SGMKXGKPSPO are the first letters of each word.... so yeah.. there IS NO MESSAGE here...

Not saying this is proof of anything, but if you noticed, Ed Boon puts the words "good" "game" "peace" "out" in caps. GGPO is an acronym for Good Game Peace Out coincidentally.

 

[iSuckAtFightingGames]

ahh I see what you mean.. heh.. what a troll master!!

 

[Hexin_Wishes]

How about using her properly

I don't even play online but your comment made me laugh. Not because it's exactly wrong or anything, I just found it amusing.

 

[PERFECTCOMBO]

Rollback for mkx

 

[KHTC Takgillo]

With the budget that NRS has it is awesome to see them putting it back into the game and innovating (first Unreal Engine game with GGPO I believe?). If this is what having guest characters gets us - bring on Harry Potter for KP3!

Guity Gear Xrd

 

[StealthyMuffin]

Here's a really good panel where Mike Z mentions GGPO. I highly recommend watching it all.
UFGTX: How to Make Fighting Games

I'll edit later with a specific timestamp, though.

Edit: Netplay discussion starts at 23:40

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

If there will be less lag, how will half of these mileena players online get their wins anymore??

B12 bullying.

 

[God Confirm]

Can we all just agree that nobody has any actual clue as to what netcode does or how it could possibly be changed/replaced? Lol
Unless there is actually some expert among us... is there?

What we do know at the very least, is that the technology IS there for much better connectivity in fighters of this caliber. But yup, nobody knows anything for sure on the details of this individual project because everything is going to be unique, but people with experience in technology and development certainly hold a lot more weight than people "who are good at MKX" which is why its a problem when people start taking their opinions on online play and what it needs as the gospel. Regardless, I think the general argument hasnt been "no they can't fix it" against "yes they can be fix it', its been more of "no they can't fix it" against "how the hell would you have any clue and can you please stop defending their actions with reaching logic on their behalf without actually knowing any better than anyone else because it's counter-productive to actual discussion" kind of argument , so I think you are entirely correct Stealthy and I wish people would add a disclaimer to their statements that they don't actually know fuck all when they act as mini-PR reps for NRS.

I've worked in technology for over a decade and a change like this is no easy task. I'm just glad that they admitted that they fell short (even though sfv is 3-4 weeks away so the timing is a little "convenient. ") Implementation to change code across the MILLIONS of consoles seamlessly is impossible. Get NRS customer service on speed dial and start working on excuses for losing other than lag.

Well really they only have to get it working on like 3 consoles and then provide the patch right. I mean, in a situation like this, implementing the changes across millions of consoles is really no harder than implementing it across like 100 right? Other than your emphasis on the "millions", I do agree. Would have saved them a lot of effort just designing it to work right from the jump

 

[d3v]

Can we all just agree that nobody has any actual clue as to what netcode does or how it could possibly be changed/replaced? Lol
Unless there is actually some expert among us... is there?

Fighting game networking isn't exactly witchcraft now.
http://mauve.mizuumi.net/2012/07/05/understanding-fighting-game-networking/

 

[stamatis]

If it is in fact netcode, I was right when I predicted it months ago (and mentioned it here)

I had a chat with a player who knows someone who works at QLOC and confirmed netcode changes are coming.

Prepare your butts. This will be epic and all those cheap mofos online will have to play for real and not use cheap tactics to win.

Do you believe the new netcode would be that good?

 

[MKF30]

They didn't mention a time. Damn. Excited.

@ dev:, I'm sure the tweaking encode is work and not that simple as you make it seem or every game would play perfectly, clearly not the case.

 

[themanDan]

Do you believe the new netcode would be that good?

Probably not off the bat, if they are doing a ggpo netcode overhaul, it's probably going to pretty buggy at first, but that's kinda normal, even for fighters that initially release with ggpo; they usually have to release a couple of patches to polish it out.

If they pull this off, I'm going to give NRS a goddamn standing ovation and gladly support them through dlc purchases for a long time lol; given how much work it would take, hell, I'd pay for an Elmo guest character in kp3.

 

[just_2swift]

Dam. No more safe ex spin online lol

 

[stamatis]

If it is in fact netcode, I was right when I predicted it months ago (and mentioned it here)

I had a chat with a player who knows someone who works at QLOC and confirmed netcode changes are coming.

Prepare your butts. This will be epic and all those cheap mofos online will have to play for real and not use cheap tactics to win.

Do you believe the new netcode would be that good?

Probably not off the bat, if they are doing a ggpo netcode overhaul, it's probably going to pretty buggy at first, but that's kinda normal, even for fighters that initially release with ggpo; they usually have to release a couple of patches to polish it out.

If they pull this off, I'm going to give NRS a goddamn standing ovation and gladly support them through dlc purchases for a long time lol; given how much work it would take, hell, I'd pay for an Elmo guest character in kp3.

Thank you for your reply,I just cannot imagine how huge the difference will be from the current netcode.
I don't know about you guys but can't play online.It sucks.

 

[allbluesanji]

Probably not off the bat, if they are doing a ggpo netcode overhaul, it's probably going to pretty buggy at first, but that's kinda normal, even for fighters that initially release with ggpo; they usually have to release a couple of patches to polish it out.

If they pull this off, I'm going to give NRS a goddamn standing ovation and gladly support them through dlc purchases for a long time lol; given how much work it would take, hell, I'd pay for an Elmo guest character in kp3.

Elmo is such a bad example. He will so bad ass. Ripping ppls tongue and tickling mileena to death while laughing. 10 10 would buy