Discussion MKXL's Next Patch

[Espio]

Discussion is healthy earlier on. It lets us explore ideas together earlier on so we can all reach the best conclusion in the end. The opinions will probably adapt over time with the gameplay

If only history told that story. Discussion is fine, but let's be honest, people are talking about buffs to Smoke who might be really good/fine as is for example and he hasn't been available for a week. The community is slow on the uptake often. My comment has nothing to do with should discussion happen. My point is purely that nobody really grasps the current meta or changes fully at present to be jumping to what the next patch should or should not be. In order to have an informed opinion takes time and research.

 

[scarsunseen]

Speaking from the perspective of a Cyrax player, they should probably nerf his insta-50/50 B2/low bomb setup.

My change to the character would be: Take away that insta-50/50 B2/low bomb setup but give him armor on ex-AA grab.

 

[EMPR_MURK]

I think with the stamina change to breakers, his MB dragon kick being plus 2 would destroy the purpose of the changes made. If i played Liu id love it being plus 2 so if my opponent broke, I'm in their face stamina free and it's my turn. But they only made it neutral correct? It would be like KJ's lunge kick being plus. Free armored way in that doesn't require the stamina lost from breaker. Is his kick a high currently? If it were a high I would be okay with it a little more. But if it were a mid it would be a tad to strong.

Liu is good the way he is currently. He doesn't need any more changes unless it is only for dualist (if needed).


But imo i don't think the wp in flame fist should have a gap in the fireballs since they're already punishable.

 

[THTB]

I'm not suggesting giving Ex phase armour or giving him a standard armoured attack (like on Tele). I'm just saying that on wakeup make the distance travelled increased because currently characters can stand in a position where if he wakes up then they can punish but if he doesn't they get pressure - the risk/reward when you think about it isn't exactly in his favour since the opposer can cover two options at once.

F2 is actually a good mid, I don't believe for a second that it's 14 frames. Leads into F21 which is an excellent string. I think F1 is fine, I was playing against BornThroughTheAshes (I think that's the name) and he caught on that I used F1 a lot and just poked me and I had brainwashed myself to believe that F1 was this ultimate tool - it's good but it's not like a counter-poke tool or anything; F4 is great for that. I've changed my game since then lol. Smoke Bomb being -6 is fine if the opponent isn't abusing the fact that everything into it has a gap so you're technically not fully safe cancelling into Smoke Bomb. The tracking is fine but people can forward jump on reaction to the fact that it's 31 frames startup + travelling frames. You can put it infront of them if you think they're going to do a command dash (alien/reptile) or advancing special, which is neat. I think he'd have a more full screen presence if Smoke Bomb was faster. Currently at fullscreen his Smoke Bombs are a joke - it actually makes me scared when I throw one, I feel like I'm going to get punished Kenshi style. I'd love to see B1~Smoke bomb connect on hit (which can be achieved with a faster Smoke Bomb ).

This early on, that's my issues really.
Distance on EX Smoke Towards, B1~SB and Smoke Bomb startup.

I'm open to suggestion of course, it's still early. Maybe I'm stuck in the past with MK9 Smoke. Maybe RSB is dead. Maybe Smoke's only a vortex character and NRS are scared of making him Batgirl.

Your mentality on the wakeup is that they'll read right every time. They won't. That's what I'm trying to say. Yeah, they can stand at a range, but if they wait too long, now they have to fight around f1 if the Smoke sits there or immediately charges after you. And if you think he'll do that, then chances are, you're gonna be advancing with whatever you do, to which he could EX phase out, and if you commit too far, you'll be in the corner, eating a corner vortex.

He's not at all bad at handling the corner. If anything, it's the same situation as anyone else. The main character I can see making life here hell is Sub, but he does that to much of the cast.

Smoke bomb being so slow is fine. I played Blake and he was jumping over it, but I was also conditioning him to do something else like poke or just sit and block. It can be sped up to help with b1, but that's as far as I'd go with it, and even then, it's not totally necessary. EX smoke bomb exists as basically MK9 smoke bomb...on crack.

In all honesty, he's not at all like MK9 Smoke, which I feel is where you're looking at him. He's good at neutral, but his strong point is pressure and vortex.

 

[Scott The Scot]

If only history told that story. Discussion is fine, but let's be honest, people are talking about buffs to Smoke who might be really good/fine as is for example and he hasn't been available for a week. The community is slow on the uptake often. My comment has nothing to do with should discussion happen. My point is purely that nobody really grasps the current meta or changes fully at present to be jumping to what the next patch should or should not be. In order to have an informed opinion takes time and research.

What would you suggest we discuss then? I think it's fine. I'm not asking for buffs, I'm saying it's what I want based on what I currently know. If anything talking about it helps make people think and people talk to me about it. That was I can change. So when it does come for making final stances on balancing, I'll know that I've made a well informed choice. You're acting as if I haven't labbed anything I'm talking about, man :/

 

[Scott The Scot]

Your mentality on the wakeup is that they'll read right every time. They won't. That's what I'm trying to say. Yeah, they can stand at a range, but if they wait too long, now they have to fight around f1 if the Smoke sits there or immediately charges after you. And if you think he'll do that, then chances are, you're gonna be advancing with whatever you do, to which he could EX phase out, and if you commit too far, you'll be in the corner, eating a corner vortex.

He's not at all bad at handling the corner. If anything, it's the same situation as anyone else. The main character I can see making life here hell is Sub, but he does that to much of the cast.

Smoke bomb being so slow is fine. I played Blake and he was jumping over it, but I was also conditioning him to do something else like poke or just sit and block. It can be sped up to help with b1, but that's as far as I'd go with it, and even then, it's not totally necessary. EX smoke bomb exists as basically MK9 smoke bomb...on crack.

In all honesty, he's not at all like MK9 Smoke, which I feel is where you're looking at him. He's good at neutral, but his strong point is pressure and vortex.

I'm not saying anything about reading. I'm saying you can stand at the correct range then IF he wakes up, react accordingly. You just have to really focus and not have a super setplay/guess mentality. Do you see a Smoke Cloud quickly getting up and coming towards? Yes? Jab-string punish. If not, pressure. That's what I'm doing.

I still think he should have more of a presence with the Smoke Bomb from full screen, even if you think his strong point is pressure and vortex. He's obviously supposed to use it at full screen too, that's probably why they didn't make it fully track like MK9 Smoke Bomb and allowed you to place it. So he can put it in-front of people. But honestly it's so slow that you're not catching people with it, they'll block or jump or something else on reaction.

 

[SaSSolino]

You can just stand back and punish him on recovery, also to my understanding Invincible moves lose to throw

Anyone who's not a complete idiot can just hit any standing normal when he's going through the motion and not quite set on the out of his phase on the other side and blow it up. I've had it happen multiple times...

"Let me spend a bar and a full combos worth of health to get out of the corner"

Not true. He can be grabbed out on a read / reaction, and for an even greater punish, walk back a bit and punish full combo on his recovery.

I never said it's safe, but unless your opponent reads you, Smoke has a way out.

 

[Jayroc]

So you guys wants his wake-up tele to be safe on recovery.. ok you can want that, thats fine.

But if your opponent continues his pressure while you wake up tele, looks like it works as a get out of jail card and you can punish them while they are wiffing. This is true or false? i just want to know from a smoke players perspective.

Teleport armor might be alittle busted in the neutral if it was his wakeup, but armor on ex fade port would be more fair.

 

[Zatoichi]

Kano:
Cybernetic:

• Hidden Brutality in b13/b23/f3 1+3
  
• Hidden Brutality in b13/b23/f3 2+4
• 22 string

Commando:

• Hidden Brutality in High Parry
• Hidden Brutality in Low Parry
• Hidden Brutality in Strangle

Cutthroat:

• DoT removed from EX Buff

The priority would be more Brutalities, or extended or alternate brutalities. Kano got zilch regarding new brutalities.

 

[ShaolinChuan]

I'm upset about Kano not getting any new brutalities, I was expecting something with his eye laser.

At the least, I'd love if they get rid of the blocking requirement for the EX air cannonball brutality.

 

[Lex Luthor II]

nerf Supermans f23

 

[THTB]

I never said it's safe, but unless your opponent reads you, Smoke has a way out.

Eeeexactly.

I don't get why people are asking for a better wakeup because his current one gets beat when read... >_>

That sounds like a problem the entire cast shares. XD

 

[MadeOfMetal]

remove Cyrax Reset loop.

Add Armor to standing Scatter Port

Reduce Acidic Dot stacks to something more normal.

Reduce Bo rai cho 75% corner combos

Give Smoke Armor on something even if its very unsafe

Make Sektors F212 Backdash a little easier for casuals

Make CSZ F12 RC F12 easier for casuals, it was great that they did that for Jason players on the B112, B112 (doesn't have to be that easy)

 

[Tundra81]

To relax.

I agree I took a night off from the online circus and just got KP2 achievements and I didn't drink nearly as many beers as I usually do.