General/Other - Scorpion MKXL - Which Variation is the best now?

[JINAMOUNAINAI]

I would still rather opt for damage and be at +18 because with Scorpion you really don't need the extra frames. Sure, you can go into f4 now, but most good players will be able to fuzzy guard out of that scenario. You are still in a great position after a teleport ender and get guaranteed damage by finishing not cutting a BNB short for more + frames into a potentially unsafe mixup.

The thing I like about Scorpion, is that when you get that first hit that ends with big damage into pressure it leaves your opponent in a position where they have to play a lot riskier and when your opponent plays like that I think Scorp is at his best.

First off you are sacrificing 1%, also i thought it was obvious that when you are at +26 you will not do b3 right away so they can fuzzyguard the f4,but instead take half a step forward so you can have b3 hitting somewhere around the 20-25 frame where it will still jail and create the mixup, this way they will have to react to f4 insted of fuzzying it, that can also create other openings

 

[RiBBz22]

First off you are sacrificing 1%, also i thought it was obvious that when you are at +26 you will not do b3 right away so they can fuzzyguard the f4,but instead take half a step forward so you can have b3 hitting somewhere around the 20-25 frame where it will still jail and create the mixup, this way they will have to react to f4 insted of fuzzying it, that can also create other openings

Hmm, I thought you were losing more than 1%. I guess in that case it is fine, but I still think that regardless of your frame advantage the only real mixup against really good players is b3/f2. F4 is more of a gimmick, omg I got it to hit move that is hit more because of conditioning rather than being trapped in a 50-50.

 

[JINAMOUNAINAI]

As i said its more to just add another layer to the shitty mixup we already have, trust me tho even the best will get hit by delaying the b3, ppl usually stand up after a few frames trying to fuzzy the f4. Then they will try to react to it, and we all know thats not the easiest thing in the world, anw not a legit 50/50 but can compliment with the other options to keep them on their toes

 

[HoangS-Z]

So what kind of ender do u guys highly recommend other than Teleport?

 

[JINAMOUNAINAI]

S3 is the best at +26 but it has some pushback, so depending on what followups you wanna use you can mix it up with 21 which is +24

 

[I GOT HANDS]

I would still rather opt for damage and be at +18 because with Scorpion you really don't need the extra frames. Sure, you can go into f4 now, but most good players will be able to fuzzy guard out of that scenario. You are still in a great position after a teleport ender and get guaranteed damage by finishing not cutting a BNB short for more + frames into a potentially unsafe mixup.

The thing I like about Scorpion, is that when you get that first hit that ends with big damage into pressure it leaves your opponent in a position where they have to play a lot riskier and when your opponent plays like that I think Scorp is at his best.

First off you are sacrificing 1%, also i thought it was obvious that when you are at +26 you will not do b3 right away so they can fuzzyguard the f4,but instead take half a step forward so you can have b3 hitting somewhere around the 20-25 frame where it will still jail and create the mixup, this way they will have to react to f4 insted of fuzzying it, that can also create other openings

The thing is though, absolutely everything else after a Teleport is guaranteed, so the only reason to try armor / backdash / poke / whatever to get through the gap is if you read the OH anyway, and if you know it's guaranteed you will just block it and leave Scorp -12 or whatever anyway. I know it isn't punishable for a lot of people but it's definitely your turn, and I know having a gap to punish on read of F4 is better than just "getting your turn" but its a MASSIVE read to make as if Scorp goes into literally anything else, you are losing like 43% of your health. And then there is the fact that you don't even need to fuzzy F4 - you can REACT to it just fine at 26f

I guess it is only 1% but I'll take my 1%, especially for a character that so commonly wins by JUST managing to chip my opponent out

 

[Eddy Wang]

A lot of people also forgets that if you land J1 at the very top of a crossup after a spear restand, if you delay for 2f or 3f your B3 will start a new combo, but the delay is so little that is nearly unoticeable, once in a while you might want to do it to maximize your damage for their disctraction, a good way to test how they're block it, is by intentionally do a standing 1 after you intentionally drop a cross up j1 hit.

Its very useful, more riskier in Inferno and Ninjutsu, but in Hellfire is even better because you can hitconfirm those late mixups with much less risks, because if it pays out, your on your way for more damage.

 

[JINAMOUNAINAI]

Its all good on paper man, just like everybody said they can easily 10/10 fuzzy the ninjutsu f2 and next thing you know every 5 f2's someone gets hit by that 2nd Oh. Anw as i said the point of +26 and using f4 is to keep them on their toes to react to it, and instead open up different option from the vortex, plainly using the +18 with f2/b3/grab is just too easy for them. Also im gonna guess you mean -11? F4 xxflame aura? I personally always go for hit confirm f4 ex tp/away if blocked, never their turn, if they armor they also waste a bar

 

[JINAMOUNAINAI]

A lot of people also forgets that if you land J1 at the very top of a crossup after a spear restand, if you delay for 2f or 3f your B3 will start a new combo, but the delay is so little that is nearly unoticeable, once in a while you might want to do it to maximize your damage for their disctraction, a good way to test how they're block it, is by intentionally do a standing 1 after you intentionally drop a cross up j1 hit.

Its very useful, more riskier in Inferno and Ninjutsu, but in Hellfire is even better because you can hitconfirm those late mixups with much less risks, because if it pays out, your on your way for more damage.

Good point, after ji2 tho its way more plus, you can even jail the f4 there, and also delay the b3 up to 10 frames to mix the timing up better

 

[Eddy Wang]

Good point, after ji2 tho its way more plus, you can even jail the f4 there, and also delay the b3 up to 10 frames to mix the timing up better

You missed the whole point.

 

[JINAMOUNAINAI]

You missed the whole point.

No i understand exactly what you mean, using ji1 as a reset
Ji2 can also be used as a reset without leaving a gap. Ji2 and then doing f4 right after you land will start a new combo without the gap, that also leaves you more time to delay the b3 without giving them a chance to randomly backdash or mash armor

 

[OutworldKeith]

@JINAMOUNAINAI
I tried your S3 ender & I have to say I really like it. It's something for the opponent to watch for. The only difference is distance & the opponent can't armor f4.

It can really blow up opponents who mash because you can't armor/jump/backdash any of Scorp's follow ups.

You also have the option to cancel S3 into TP for the normal +18 ender.

@Eddy Wang you should try it out in Ninjutsu.

 

[Hor_PeT]

yes, once someone gets in, he is kinda doomed, and spending the bar for armored take downs really doesn't do much justice IMO, but still Hellfire its not a variation that one can just apply pressure relentlessly, because he can easily active flame aura when one is trying to poke out, or to low profile to reverse pressure.
It cannot also be randomed jumped on or just stay away fullscreen in order to outrange him, of all scorpion variation Hellfire is the one that suffer less up close compared to Ninjutsu or Inferno.

Well, I feel that Ninjutsu has respect too not mindless rushing at him (F2, B2) - now maybe Hellfire is better defender now with S3 threat?

 

[GAV]

Hellfire is the best variation because it makes the best use of all Scorpion universal buffs, besides you can fbc your mixups, flame aura and hellfire makes a lot of difference in MUs where you can't use ninjutsu's swords, and the FBC pressure is still there if you can condition your opponent to not back dash, or armor through it.

Ninjutsu is good and effective, but there are still MU's which is plain horrible using ninjutsu, as much as his both F2 and B2 cover some good ranges, they're are not safe by any means and should be used sparingly, B2 is -17 and F2 is -11, B4 is -4 on block but is 13 frames, in this game 13 frames is slow due the pace of the game being a lot faster, even 11 frames is somewhat slow if the move doesn't hit mid and cover a lot of distance.

Ninjutsu requires much more fundamentals to play effectively, since his only tool that crushes low sometimes is F3, but he has to spend a bar to hitconfirm and stay safe at the same time, Hellfire doesn't even need F3, but then again, you can FBC F3, and hitconfirm if you crush a low, or apply pressure if blocked.

If you play Ninjutsu, your fundamentals should be great - since his combos take zero skill to execute consistently.

I can't believe they made a more noob friendly variation than Bojutsu.

 

[Lord Beef]

b1 is a good post-spear ender too. Looks deceptive in that you dropped your crossover follow up. And its insanely + on hit. ~29 IIRC. Its + enough for b4 to be a legit option and not get armored out of(by most characters.) It's so plus, that you actually have to wait SEVERAL frames to even land a throw. I get a lot of mileage out of b1.

 

[ILuvFightGames]

I use hellfire and wanted to ask, what's scorpions best poke? Best pressure attack? Best attack to start a punish?

 

[JINAMOUNAINAI]

b1 is a good post-spear ender too. Looks deceptive in that you dropped your crossover follow up. And its insanely + on hit. ~29 IIRC. Its + enough for b4 to be a legit option and not get armored out of(by most characters.) It's so plus, that you actually have to wait SEVERAL frames to even land a throw. I get a lot of mileage out of b1.

Its +24 mate, just like 21. and no f4 does not jail from that, can be armored/backdashed as well.

 

[JINAMOUNAINAI]

I use hellfire and wanted to ask, what's scorpions best poke? Best pressure attack? Best attack to start a punish?

Best punish is s3 to fbc
Poke d4
Pressure in neutral usually starts after a d4 on hit, f3 fbc can be very good to go in and start your offense,just dont whiff it, very bad recovery

 

[TyCarter35]

If you play Ninjutsu, your fundamentals should be great - since his combos take zero skill to execute consistently.

I can't believe they made a more noob friendly variation than Bojutsu.

Especially with the fact that ninjutsu and destroy most armored moves if timed correctly and stuffed by f2/b4. The fact that people don't use ninjutsu more often is shocking

 

[Hor_PeT]

Especially with the fact that ninjutsu and destroy most armored moves if timed correctly and stuffed by f2/b4. The fact that people don't use ninjutsu more often is shocking

I play Ninjutsu but not as easy as it looks like. Casual players like the top tier characters.
And top tier characters like beating Ninjutsu as well.
But Ninjutsu is stronger than before so I recommend to play with it.

 

[Hor_PeT]

@JINAMOUNAINAI
I tried your S3 ender & I have to say I really like it. It's something for the opponent to watch for. The only difference is distance & the opponent can't armor f4.

It can really blow up opponents who mash because you can't armor/jump/backdash any of Scorp's follow ups.

You also have the option to cancel S3 into TP for the normal +18 ender.

@Eddy Wang you should try it out in Ninjutsu.

I am not Eddy Wang but I may try it with Ninjutsu. Ninjutsu likes the safe things.

 

[OutworldKeith]

Especially with the fact that ninjutsu and destroy most armored moves if timed correctly and stuffed by f2/b4. The fact that people don't use ninjutsu more often is shocking

F2 can blow up any armored move about 9f or slower. B4 will blow up everything else with the exception of super armor, e.g, X-Rays. The great thing is he can combo from both options.

 

[Eddy Wang]

The standing 3 pushback on block after the teleport ender is much needed, its so decieving but places them right outside of range where F2 perfectly punishes those mashings, i've been getting much better results with it and have been able to beat D'vorah with much less struggle now, before the patch that MU was kinda ugly though.

Cassie is still Ugly AFK, but i will manage here and there.

 

[GAV]

I play Ninjutsu but not as easy as it looks like. Casual players like the top tier characters.
And top tier characters like beating Ninjutsu as well.
But Ninjutsu is stronger than before so I recommend to play with it.

Casual players like to be able to deal good damage without spending much time practicing. They also like punching up a class through their character choice.

I was able to do the 40-45% combos I see everyone doing online after practicing for just 5 minutes. Now, I knew what to do - but, really?

It took me weeks to learn Kotal Kahn. It took hours to learn Alien. 5 minutes is less time than it took for me to figure out Bojutsu's combos.

As far as how to play him correctly, I'm still a noob - but his combos take almost zero practice.

 

[GAV]

The standing 3 pushback on block after the teleport ender is much needed, its so decieving but places them right outside of range where F2 perfectly punishes those mashings, i've been getting much better results with it and have been able to beat D'vorah with much less struggle now, before the patch that MU was kinda ugly though.

Cassie is still Ugly AFK, but i will manage here and there.

She looks like who she's based on...

...a good matchup for anyone who's not an idiot.