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MKX Tier List Presented by YOMI (Rv1.0)

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D4G

D4G

Win At All Cost
Bildslash said:
You can't fault him for not remembering Reo used Erron Black, since Reo has been using many characters in different tournaments (Erron, Cassie, Quanchi) before settling with Tanya.
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Settled? Naw, he's working on Flame Fist Liu Kang as we speak. :rolleyes:

Him and Jr. change characters on a weekly basis
 
Bildslash

Bildslash

Goro Lives 
Metzos said:
@YOMI DJT, sorry but Goro is not the worst character in the game, especially with the latest buffs.

His ground game and wall carry is easily top 10 material and his corner game, is for sure top 5, if not top 3.

His pokes are godlike with excellent range, they are safe, his normals have frame traps which opponent HAVE to respect cause of the command grab, and if Goro has 1 bar of meter (ex punchwalk), he has a 9f mid combo starter, which from point black range, forces the opponent to respect him and with the recent buffs he can easily close the distance between him and his opponent after a SG or chest lunge (KW).

KW also has excellent unbreakable damage with one bar (26% off a command grab followed by ex gp), his ground pounds lower his hit box making him not so easy to be punished, which means his opponent has to be careful as to how he will approach KW Goro. Zoners also need to be careful with their zoning cause of his ground pounds as well.

His only weakness is that he is free against jump ins (most of the time) and the fucked up hitbox of his b12u2 string. Both issues i believe will be noted and adjusted correctly in the future. If they do Goro could easily be top 15, even better, at the right hands.

I agree with Ermac's and Kenshi's placement.

Post edited.
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Yes, Goro has everything you described, but placement is not about tools but matchups. Like you said, his Achilles Heels is anti-airing, and a lot of characters bully him for that reason alone: Tanya, Raiden, Quan Chi, Subzero, Kung Lao, Kung Jin, Sonya, etc.
 
Diego de Souza Costa

Diego de Souza Costa

***The Soul Consuming Darkness***
The "tier list" for this game must take all the character/variation in consideration, example:

Raiden(Thunder God) is "S", but Raiden(Master of storms/Displacer) isn't....
 
Colares

Colares

Apprentice
Fallen_sektor said:
watch ceo top 8
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I have my opinion from all the streamed matches but I'm not the one dealing to the full extent high level play
and some things that I feel are too strong others might think it's ok or even a core to Tanya and removing it would scorpion her
 
Bildslash

Bildslash

Goro Lives 
SEV said:
As far as Shinnok's vortex goes in Boneshaper, since the low is guaranteed and there is a gap for the overhead and everything else, it's only a matter of time until people realize they can apply option selects to either block/avoid or punish it 100% of the time. It's not even that tough to do.

Once the game is done being updated, option selects will determine the final tier placings. The surface has barely been scratched on this game's meta.
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How can you option select between blocking and punishing? Honest question.
 
F

fredchuckdave

Noob
Good list, I'd probably swap Kung Jin with Shinnok and move Ferra/Torr up like 5 or 6 spots. My bottom five would be Reptile, Takeda, Kotal Kahn, Jacqui, Goro, so relatively close.
 
FinalBoss_FGC

FinalBoss_FGC

Day -4MONTHS Dual Jin main
Its almost impossible to create a variation tier list. The people that are calling for it are ridiculous and never tried to make one themselves.

Let us compare two variations that most people do not use in tourney - Ancestral KJ vs MoS Raiden.

How can we dictate matchups when most people use Bojutsu and TG Raiden. Or trying to compare Ethereal Mileena vs Kenjitsu Kenshi.

Its just impractical to expect somebody to gather relevant information on every single variation to compare it to all others.

While it would be nice, it is just impractical this early in the game.
 
OneEyeTwoHead

OneEyeTwoHead

Noob
Bildslash said:
You can't fault him for not remembering Reo used Erron Black, since Reo has been using many characters in different tournaments (Erron, Cassie, Quanchi) before settling with Tanya.
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Settled, LOL.

He was rocking Boneshaper yesterday during the Yomi in-house tourney. I wonder why.......... Guess we'll never know!
 
BillStickers

BillStickers

Do not touch me again.
By the way, variation strength (and, by extension, tier list position) should be calculated by max(A, B, C), not mean(A, B, C). At this point in the game, weaker variations have no weight on the meta and therefore should not be taken into account.

For example, a character with matchup numbers totalling 300, 100, 105 has a mean of 168, yet the character's first variation would still be expected to dominate all variations of a character whose matchup numbers are 200, 195, and 205, despite this character having a mean matchup total of 200.
 
SEV

SEV

Apprentice
Bildslash said:
How can you option select between blocking and punishing? Honest question.
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There's a strict timing for when the low option has to come for it to be guaranteed in BS Shinnok's vortex. With that knowledge you can apply a reversal option select by ensuring that you're holding down and block during that timing then immediately following it up with an armored special input. If he went low, since you were holding block during that timing it will jail, and since you're immediately re-inputting block for the armored reversal, you will continue to block any continuous string pressure from the low option.

Or, you can just use the back dash option select with altered input timings based on the one in this thread with the same principle that if there is a gap, you'll back dash, and if there isn't, you'll block:

http://testyourmight.com/threads/mkx-block-option-select-backdash-video-by-ultradavid.53067/

Shinnok still has options, though, if he reads an option select; either bait armor to be safe which you can punish, or risk advancing pressure that would punish a back dash. Or, he can just use the guaranteed low block string to build meter that he can use later for a guaranteed 50/50 from exHS or for combos. That meta won't be around for a while, though, and Shinnok is still a very strong character regardless.
 
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Tony at Home

Tony at Home

Master
STB Sgt Reed said:
Covert Ops: 50/50s into 50/50s

Hence why it's the best.
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I don't think 50/50's is even the main distinction of Covert Ops.

Well, at least in a sense. I think it's her corner game, what makes it a strong variation. And by corner game, I don't just mean her increased ability to combo out of her military stance's low (though that IS awesome), but the fact that her grab out of military stance also goes from being a 'marginal' threat to an 'extreme threat'. Mid screen, MS~Grab allows the opponent to tech roll, and it's not super + on hit, so it sort of resets the neutral. In the corner, it has none of those weaknesses.

SEV said:
Covert Ops 50/50's into 50/50's up-play is real. Look at Military Stance frame data: 8 frame low, 22 frame overhead; block low, react to the overhead, block and punish or react to the cancel with pressure. You don't need to reversal or poke out. Just lab it, play calmly and it should never open you up, or at least the second "50/50" shouldn't.
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While fuzzying her high/low out of military stance is definitely a option opponents should use so the Sonya player doesn't get too comfortable, her grab out of military stance blows that up completely.

This is why I focus so much on corner game being the distinction of Covert Ops. When she's in the corner, she can easily continue pressure post-MS-grab unlike in mid screen. And when grab is a threat, opponents have much less options against her strong 50/50 game.
 
M2Dave

M2Dave

Zoning Master
A F0xy Grampa said:
Thats the mixup though, you shouldnt be punished for guessing wrong against that sorta thing.

- Will he do something guaranteed? Block low
- Or not? Do something else.

He spends a bar to put himself in a massively advantageous situation. Thats a really unfair statement to make. A backdash wont 'blow him up' cause who can backdash and still whiff punish? The armour is also a read. A risk on the player using it, more so than on the player who could get hit by it.
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Ignore Cowboy. He has officially begun downplaying.

Bone Shaper is most likely top 10. Imposter is only slightly worse because soul steal vortex is match up dependent. Necromancer is mid tier.
 
ForeverKing

ForeverKing

Patreon.com/MK_ForeverKing
Metzos said:
@YOMI DJT, sorry but Goro is not the worst character in the game, especially with the latest buffs.

His ground game and wall carry is easily top 10 material and his corner game, is for sure top 5, if not top 3.

His pokes are godlike with excellent range, they are safe, his normals have frame traps which opponent HAVE to respect cause of the command grab, and if Goro has 1 bar of meter (ex punchwalk), he has a 9f mid combo starter, which from point black range, forces the opponent to respect him and with the recent buffs he can easily close the distance between him and his opponent after a SG or chest lunge (KW).

KW also has excellent unbreakable damage with one bar (26% off a command grab followed by ex gp), his ground pounds lower his hit box making him not so easy to be punished, which means his opponent has to be careful as to how he will approach KW Goro. Zoners also need to be careful with their zoning cause of his ground pounds as well.

His only weakness is that he is free against jump ins (most of the time) and the fucked up hitbox of his b12u2 string. Both issues i believe will be noted and adjusted correctly in the future. If they do Goro could easily be top 15, even better, at the right hands.

I agree with Ermac's and Kenshi's placement.

Post edited.
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Trust me, Goro is the worst character in the game by far. Yes his corner carry is good, yes his corner game is good. But against 50% of the cast he won't even get that started because he is too slow to get in and has no good anti air. Almost every single character in the game can jump in on him for free, a free jump in means free pressure or free mix ups or both. Not to mention Goro doesn't have any good jump attacks so he is probably getting anti aired 90% of the time he jumps at any character in the game. He has to play way too honest, in a game full of characters that can do whatever they want to Goro.

His last buffs didn't even help him at all. The last buffs Goro got only made his strengths better, they didn't buff his weaknesses. He doesn't need his strengths buffed, he needs his weaknesses buffed. Real buffs for Goro that would actually make him viable are:

1) Give Goro the run speed of a normal character

2) Make U1/U2 way faster and have more priority, 9 frame start up would be pretty godlike

3) The whole entire cast needs a D2 buff, which would help Goro significantly

With these 3 buffs, Goro might be mid tier lol. For now he is in a tier by himself at the bottom of the cast
 
SEV

SEV

Apprentice
Tony at Home said:
I don't think 50/50's is even the main distinction of Covert Ops.

Well, at least in a sense. I think it's her corner game, what makes it a strong variation. And by corner game, I don't just mean her increased ability to combo out of her military stance's low (though that IS awesome), but the fact that her grab out of military stance also goes from being a 'marginal' threat to an 'extreme threat'. Mid screen, MS~Grab allows the opponent to tech roll, and it's not super + on hit, so it sort of resets the neutral. In the corner, it has none of those weaknesses.



While fuzzying her high/low out of military stance is definitely a option opponents should use so the Sonya player doesn't get too comfortable, her grab out of military stance blows that up completely.

This is why I focus so much on corner game being the distinction of Covert Ops. When she's in the corner, she can easily continue pressure post-MS-grab unlike in mid screen. And when grab is a threat, opponents have much less options against her strong 50/50 game.
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You're replying to the first posts of our convo so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, but what I'm saying is that it isn't a fuzzy guard. A fuzzy guard is timing based, for mix ups with varying frames in which both options cannot be reacted to, but have enough of a frame differential to allow the timing of the stance change to cover both options. That's not the case with the Military Stance mix ups.

Sonya's options in Military Stance are an 8 frame low, a 22 frame overhead, and a grab that whiffs on low blocking targets. 22 frames is enough to react to the start up animation of the overhead option, so you're not fuzzy guarding you're actually reacting. So all you have to do is respect the low option, which will either block the low or cause the grab to whiff, either of which you can then punish, react to and block the overhead then punish, or react to a cancel with pressure. If you're being patient and calm, it shouldn't be able to open you up.

And I'm not saying that Covert Ops is a bad variation, or that Military Stance is a bill, I'm just saying that the mix ups from Military Stance are gimmicky, and it's main strength is in being a safe cancel for your actual 50/50. The variations meta down the road will most likely revolve around MS cancels and it's follow up of parry, armor, pressure or respect.
 
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