MKX and Command Grabs

[StealthyMuffin]

Please don't nerf Ninjitsu now.

So you ARE here!

 

[Scoot Magee]

I think allowing techs while blocking will solve most of the issues I have with the mechanic. It's too much of a risk if you think you made the right read on a throw, but you end up eating a combo into 30-40%.

So you can os block and throw tech without the risk of whiffing a normal? Yeah that would be great for characters with no real chip or 50/50. Ninjitsu would be screwed as would other footsie reliant characters.

 

[StealthyMuffin]

My thread has literally nothing to do with command grabs. What the fuck are you doing?

 

[Scoot Magee]

So you ARE here!

Yeah, I've been here for a pretty long time.

I don't agree with this thread. Throws need to be strong imo.

 

[StealthyMuffin]

So you can os block and throw tech without the risk of whiffing a normal? Yeah that would be great for characters with no real chip or 50/50. Ninjitsu would be screwed.

Ninjutsu still has buttons lol. Really good buttons. Not every hit comes from mixups, otherwise Street Fighter would just be grabs and fireballs. He is one of the few characters that can reliably play footsies. One stray hit can lead to bad times for your opponent. Also, there would have to be a cooldown on teching so you can't just mash. Grabs would still exist.

 

[Scoot Magee]

Ninjutsu still has buttons lol. Really good buttons. Not every hit comes from mixups, otherwise Street Fighter would just be grabs and fireballs. He is one of the few characters that can reliably play footsies. One stray hit can lead to bad times for your opponent. Also, there would have to be a cooldown on teching so you can't just mash. Grabs would still exist.

This is not Street Fighter though, it's not even comparable. The thing is good buttons are good when paired with the threat of something else. How am I supposed to get you to start whiffing normals if I can't grab you? You can literally block everything I do until I'm negative and then press the advantage. If teching becomes easier it totally nerfs a group of characters that already struggle with the top tier, especially if you can actually block while mashing tech, that would be retarded.

 

[Espio]

That's the discussion I had with a really strong Ninjutsu player. Nerfed grabs (like every other FG) would still be viable mix ups. They just wouldn't be ridiculously good.

I mean honestly, it's a tool everyone has access to so it's not like they're actually "unfair" in the sense that everyone has them as a tool. Definitely not for a universal nerf to them because the characters without strong mix ups are the ones that are going to truly suffer. The goal of balancing should be to encourage diversity of the roster, weakening throws would weaken a lot of the diverse characters that don't have strong mix ups. Characters with great tick throws, overheads and lows aren't going to be hit nearly as hard at all because of their plethora of options to break the opponent down and open them up.

The only thing about throws that is dumb to me personally is the opponent getting awarded first hit/meter when you tech a grab, other than that, I think they're fine as they are.

My thread has literally nothing to do with command grabs. What the fuck are you doing?

I thought your thread got deleted, I was so confused cause I typed up a reply and everything lol and I agree.

 

[GNG Iniquity]

My thread has literally nothing to do with command grabs. What the fuck are you doing?

I've yet to play MKX for obvious reasons but aren't the "command grabs" in MKX blockable? Meaning, throws are more similar to actual command grabs in MKX...and you have to release block to tech them. LOL this game...god...

 

[StealthyMuffin]

@Scoot Magee @Espio I mostly agree with you guys, but I feel like there are smarter design alternatives.

Also, wtf @Tim Static?

 

[InFlames]

Since we're talking about throws, does anyone know how much advantage you get after you tech a throw? Is it the same as Injustice?

 

[StealthyMuffin]

Since we're talking about throws, does anyone know how much advantage you get after you tech a throw? Is it the same as Injustice?

I'd like to know how large the tech window is too.

 

[WidowPuppy]

Both characters are at neutral after a tech

 

[I GOT HANDS]

I've read some stupid shit posts on this forum but that is one of the stupidest and shittiest of the bunch.

No offense m8 but come on.

Excellent contribution, you've completely swayed my perspective with that strong argument supported with such solid reasoning.





The "cringeworthy gif in liue of an any real logic" seems to be a phenoma found strictly on these boards as far as competitive gaming goes. I've never seen a competitive community get their panties in such a knot just because someone has an opinion, other boards people love to explain the workings of the game they love if they know so comfortably and firmly, the logic to why something is the way they believe it to be.

If you have an opinion on why my statement is incorrect, please feel free to share. You will likely sway me if your argument is as compelling as you believe it to be. However, posting an immature gif with nothing but insults attached just makes you think you are mindless moron attaching yourself to the popular response without bothering to question things for yourself. Also, quite possibly in your late pre-pubescent years. Just saying. Please respond with something worthwhile reading and do try again.

 

[StealthyMuffin]

Excellent contribution, you've completely swayed my perspective with that strong argument supported with such solid reasoning.

The "cringeworthy gif in liue of an any real logic" seems to be a phenoma found strictly on these boards as far as competitive gaming goes. I've never seen a competitive community get their panties in such a knot just because someone has an opinion, other boards people love to explain the workings of the game they love if they know so comfortably and firmly, the logic to why something is the way they believe it to be.

If you have an opinion on why my statement is incorrect, please feel free to share. You will likely sway me if your argument is as compelling as you believe it to be. However, posting an immature gif with nothing but insults attached just makes you think you are mindless moron attaching yourself to the popular response without bothering to question things for yourself. Also, quite possibly in your late pre-pubescent years. Just saying. Please respond with something worthwhile reading and do try again.

It was a good gif...

 

[Sage Leviathan]

Why was @StealthyMuffin 's throw thread merged with the Command Grabs thread?
They have nothing to do with each other.

 

[StealthyMuffin]

Why was @StealthyMuffin 's throw thread merged with the Command Grabs thread?
They have nothing to do with each other.

 

[WidowPuppy]

So, I just tested it Stealthy. Technically you can tech a grab while blocking, just not holding block. Basically letting go of block~Teching throw seems to work, even while the opponent is grabbing me while still in the blocking animation. So it does seem reactable, in a lag free environment [offline]. Tighter window it seems, but it works.

Maybe not reactable at 10 frames for throws, idk. Just stating the technical aspects of what's possible input wise.

 

[buyacushun]

Was wondering why @StealthyMuffin seemed to be on topic and off topic at the same time. . .

I still don't like how command grabs work and think they should all be buffed just cause.

As for regular throws, @pzea Has the right idea with throw techs. The anti-tech-mash thing I think is in Blazblue (which has my favorite 2D throw system). Having to let go of block (which is a guess) then guess left or right is ridiculous. At least in tekken (my favorite 3D throw system) you can react to which break you need to do. Kinda sucks they made it easier in T7 but that's whatever. Taking damage even if you teched a throw is stupid. Even though 2% is a little it still can kill and gives first hit bonus. There is already chip on blocked normals so no matter what you're doing correct you're still getting hurt. MKx has these little quirks which makes me think they had some of the scrubbiest players help with the system.

 

[haketh]

MKX throw techs are fine, happy to see strong throws in a game that's not GG

 

[Pterodactyl]

It was a good gif...

That's more than it deserved.

Excellent contribution, you've completely swayed my perspective with that strong argument supported with such solid reasoning.





The "cringeworthy gif in liue of an any real logic" seems to be a phenoma found strictly on these boards as far as competitive gaming goes. I've never seen a competitive community get their panties in such a knot just because someone has an opinion, other boards people love to explain the workings of the game they love if they know so comfortably and firmly, the logic to why something is the way they believe it to be.

If you have an opinion on why my statement is incorrect, please feel free to share. You will likely sway me if your argument is as compelling as you believe it to be. However, posting an immature gif with nothing but insults attached just makes you think you are mindless moron attaching yourself to the popular response without bothering to question things for yourself. Also, quite possibly in your late pre-pubescent years. Just saying. Please respond with something worthwhile reading and do try again.

I didn't read any of that post because I know it's just a bunch of meaningless salt.

After posting that you think throws in this game shouldn't be tech-able I don't really care for whatever you have to say. Why what you said is ridiculous doesn't need elaboration. If your initial opinion is something that ridiculous and you truly believe it, there is no amount of logic or reasoning that will be able to convince you otherwise, so I don't see a point in bothering.

Seriously what planet do you live on to say something like this seriously?

Hell I don't think we should be able to tech at all.

No long-winded rebuttal from you is going to undo that stupid shit.

 

[Scoot Magee]

Was wondering why @StealthyMuffin seemed to be on topic and off topic at the same time. . .

I still don't like how command grabs work and think they should all be buffed just cause.

As for regular throws, @pzea Has the right idea with throw techs. The anti-tech-mash thing I think is in Blazblue (which has my favorite 2D throw system). Having to let go of block (which is a guess) then guess left or right is ridiculous. At least in tekken (my favorite 3D throw system) you can react to which break you need to do. Kinda sucks they made it easier in T7 but that's whatever. Taking damage even if you teched a throw is stupid. Even though 2% is a little it still can kill and gives first hit bonus. There is already chip on blocked normals so no matter what you're doing correct you're still getting hurt. MKx has these little quirks which makes me think they had some of the scrubbiest players help with the system.

Let's just say you didn't have to let go of block. A footsie based character that doesn't have good advantage strings and chip pressure will have no way to whiff punish with the threat of a throw. You can just hold block till its your turn and you'll be good to go. Not to mention you can just mash whatever buttons you want while safely blocking which would cover the attack and throw options at the same time. This becomes even worse if you don't have to guess what direction you'll be thrown in.

These are not good ideas and people really need to think about this stuff a little more before making suggestions. I've seen threads suggesting the techs be easier on top of 1 bar push blocks with the majority of people here agreeing with it. That would definitely only help the best characters in the game.

 

[StealthyMuffin]

Let's just say you didn't have to let go of block. A footsie based character that doesn't have good advantage strings and chip pressure will have no way to whiff punish with the threat of a throw. You can just hold block till its your turn and you'll be good to go. Not to mention you can just mash whatever buttons you want while safely blocking which would cover the attack and throw options at the same time. This becomes even worse if you don't have to guess what direction you'll be thrown in.

These are not good ideas and people really need to think about this stuff a little more before making suggestions. I've seen threads suggesting the techs be easier on top of 1 bar push blocks with the majority of people here agreeing with it. That would definitely only help the best characters in the game.

Throws are universally ridiculous. Every character has them. Making throws dumb for the sake of a few characters is god awful design. You shouldn't be able to mash. The post you quoted says that.

 

[Scoot Magee]

Throws are universally ridiculous. Every character has them. Making throws dumb for the sake of a few characters is god awful design. You shouldn't be able to mash. The post you quoted says that.

Regardless it will make throws bad. Letting go of block is critical because it makes it so that you can't os block and tech.

In sf throws lead to crossup mixup and etc. You don't really get situations like that in this game outside of some 50 50s but you still have the option to wake up.

 

[StealthyMuffin]

Regardless it will make throws bad. Letting go of block is critical because it makes it so that you can't os block and tech.

In sf throws lead to crossup mixup and etc. You don't really get situations like that in this game unless your character has 50 50s.

Alright. I honestly agree with most of what you're saying. I still think that some of the quirks are dumb, though. Agree to disagree?

 

[Scoot Magee]

Also you may think it's stupid that some characters rely on grabs to open people up but it's not even the best form of offense in this game. There's a lot of better ways to open people up. Vortexes that leave you at advantage, 30% block strings and etc but throws are dumb.