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MKX and Command Grabs

buyacushun

buyacushun

Normalize grab immunity.
I'm trying to enjoy MKx but I need help understanding a design choice. I thought projectiles not clashing was interesting. The gravity based juggle system is cool. I liked Tekken's way of doing things and this reminds me of that. Pretty much the whole game acts 3D lol. The 50/50 throw is annoying but I can live with it. That's not the grabs I'm talking about. My gripe is with command grabs. The damage barely beats a regular throw. Most of them switch sides or leave your opponent more than a dash away so you get barely any advantage. But the worst part for me is that people can attack through you're grab even if you spend meter. In some cases (probably the whole roster) you can attack through the grab and get a whole combo leading to 30% in most cases. Grapplers usually end up somewhere in the middle of a tier list. Only in MKx do I feel there is no reason to use a grappler in this game. Maybe I'm missing something to the MK meta. So I'm asking the TYM community: Why? Why can you stay grounded against command grabs and either trade/dodge/full on punish them with strings?

I personally don't think grabs should even trade. If you are grounded during a command grabs active frames, you should be grabbed no if, ands, or buts. I'll still be using a grappler in this game. Either Sun God KK or EB because I think they have the style I'm also looking for. But they seem to have the best grabs imo.
 
YoloRoll1stHit

YoloRoll1stHit

Publicly Educated
It's not throw immune. Because this game has a block button, ducking doesn't mean blocking. Command grabs are made to hit high and I think NRS did that on purpose to prevent another Bane of Injustice. And seriously, having 1 command grab doesn't make that character a "grappler". I don't even think this game has a grappler. You play a character for a whole bunch of other stuffs (like Erron Black and Cassie Cage for his mixup, Kotal Kahn for his cool combos, Wrestler Jax for amazing corner damage....)
 
juicepouch

juicepouch

blink-182 enthusiast
YoloRoll1stHit said:
It's not throw immune. Because this game has a block button, ducking doesn't mean blocking. Command grabs are made to hit high and I think NRS did that on purpose to prevent another Bane of Injustice. And seriously, having 1 command grab doesn't make that character a "grappler". I don't even think this game has a grappler. You play a character for a whole bunch of other stuffs (like Erron Black and Cassie Cage for his mixup, Kotal Kahn for his cool combos, Wrestler Jax for amazing corner damage....)
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the command grab wasn't even the reason bane was broken

also commando kano
 
Pan1cMode

Pan1cMode

AUS FGC represent!
buyacushun said:
I'm just gonna skip all the cool kid asshat jokes and go straight to asking what's your point.

So what's your point?
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His point is that tic throws are useful and create another layer of mixup.

Any time you block Brawler Cassie's 2, 21, 212, d3, d4 or f44 strings you put yourself in a mixup.

Let go of block to avoid the command grab? Continue to block in case they throw out the flip kick or bf3? What if they do d3/d4 instead after? This is a mind game that does not exist in the other variations because they don't have a command grab.

Command grabs aren't useless and the fact that they don't connect against ducking opponents makes perfect sense.


Also, I can't understand why you think grabs should beat out everything. In my mind it's always been block>attack>grab>block which seems pretty standard practise really.
 
juicepouch

juicepouch

blink-182 enthusiast
PrimBloodGhost said:
Grundy was the best grappler NRS ever made.
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Except for the fact that he got regulated by like 8 characters in terrible matchups I would agree

Ray'sGoodLiquor said:
I was gonna say Shazam. I loved his design but there was maybe 1-2 people that played him on a high level.
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also acceptable, once again given and looking past the fact that he also got his poop shoved in by a bunch of top characters
 
Mikemetroid

Mikemetroid

Who hired this guy, WTF?
Lead Moderator
buyacushun said:
I'm trying to enjoy MKx but I need help understanding a design choice. I thought projectiles not clashing was interesting. The gravity based juggle system is cool. I liked Tekken's way of doing things and this reminds me of that. Pretty much the whole game acts 3D lol. The 50/50 throw is annoying but I can live with it. That's not the grabs I'm talking about. My gripe is with command grabs. The damage barely beats a regular throw. Most of them switch sides or leave your opponent more than a dash away so you get barely any advantage. But the worst part for me is that people can attack through you're grab even if you spend meter. In some cases (probably the whole roster) you can attack through the grab and get a whole combo leading to 30% in most cases. Grapplers usually end up somewhere in the middle of a tier list. Only in MKx do I feel there is no reason to use a grappler in this game. Maybe I'm missing something to the MK meta. So I'm asking the TYM community: Why? Why can you stay grounded against command grabs and either trade/dodge/full on punish them with strings?

I personally don't think grabs should even trade. If you are grounded during a command grabs active frames, you should be grabbed no if, ands, or buts. I'll still be using a grappler in this game. Either Sun God KK or EB because I think they have the style I'm also looking for. But they seem to have the best grabs imo.
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Okay, then why not put that in the title so you don't even have to explain it
 
JJV Phoenix

JJV Phoenix

I'm not Vak goddamnit
Eh, the position switch ones aren't terrible when you're cornered, especially commando Kano's ex powerbomb; too bad the entire variation sucks otherwise.
 
buyacushun

buyacushun

Normalize grab immunity.
Pan1cMode said:
His point is that tic throws are useful and create another layer of mixup.

Any time you block Brawler Cassie's 2, 21, 212, d3, d4 or f44 strings you put yourself in a mixup.

Let go of block to avoid the command grab? Continue to block in case they throw out the flip kick or bf3? What if they do d3/d4 instead after? This is a mind game that does not exist in the other variations because they don't have a command grab.

Command grabs aren't useless and the fact that they don't connect against ducking opponents makes perfect sense.


Also, I can't understand why you think grabs should beat out everything. In my mind it's always been block>attack>grab>block which seems pretty standard practise really.
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He should explain his point instead of asking rhetorical questions. Thank you for at least trying to though.
I understand what tick throws do, Part of the reason why I'm picking up either SGKK or an EB. I didn't say the were useless. Just I feel there is a lack of positives for command grabs. Tick throws don't address all any of my gripes with command grabs. I know with Cassie's she is basically on top of her opponent and she has a good tick string compared to the ones I've seen. Thing is she isn't really a "grappler" imo, which seems to fit the theme in MK. To me Kotal might be the closes thing to how I view "traditional grapplers". Doesn't necessarily have to be slow (but probably the slowest in their respective games), very strong looking and defined movements. Then you work your way in and your reward would be some big damage and oki or a mix of the two. Something that made it feel like since you beat the initial neutral/zoning game you now get to play your game. I never really got this feeling from this game. Maybe there is another character who fits what I'm looking for and i don't know. I'm open to suggestions and even to an explanation that basically means "They're like this cause of MK meta" or something to that degree. This is the only game I know of where you can attack through grabs and the risk/reward for grabs is terribly against the grappler.


Mikemetroid said:
Okay, then why not put that in the title so you don't even have to explain it
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Just having fun with grabs meaning either one. People click on it expecting one thing and come to find out it's the other. If it's really a problem I'll change it. May I ask why though? Even if the title stated command grabs I'd still feel I'd have to explain my statement instead of just saying "They suck. Why?". Which is also why I didn't think it mattered. Thread would have been the same either way.

Want to point out I did play injustice using mostly Grundy and he felt like that. Heck playing against bane or shazam they felt like that too whether or not I was grundy. They could've really shined if injustice didn't have such defined characters. Most characters had obvious strengths and weaknesses and it felt like counterpicks were figured out week one. Correct me if high level didn't evolve that way. I was really hoping ravenous was a Shazam like character. Nice pressure and pokes that lead to some tick setups and those grabs lead to the really good damage and combos. They weren't just his end game like say Grundy.

Oh and the motion for a lot of these is irritating. I think Kotal has the most friendly one.
 
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Apex Kano

Apex Kano

Kano Commando main MKX
Johnny Based Cage said:
Honestly, Grundy, Bane and Shazam all blew every grappler in this game out the water in terms of awesome gameplay design. Nobody feels like a true grappler in this.
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And this makes me a sad panda . I thought NRS would improved on the gameplay they made to grapplers. Seems like thet took a step back for MKX. I still main Kano Commando and loving it, just wish the premier grappler of this game would be similar to Injustice grapplers.

I GOT HANDS said:
Came in here to say Shazam. Man do I miss him. Better be in Injustice 2
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I miss the grapplers of Injustice. Wish I could import them.
 
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