MKT Tournament Rules Discussion

[Juggs]

Since there's been a rise in popularity in MKT, there's been a lot of discussion of what the rules would be for tournaments. This thread is to discuss what the rules should be.

MKT is still fairly popular in South America and some other areas. For reference, this is some of the rules they have:

-No Universal Infinites. This includes the corner d.HK infinite and the corner LP infnite

-Noob Saibot is banned

-Rain is allowed, but his infinite is banned. They allow two reps of his infinite.

-Sheeva has a max of 5 c.HKs in the corner after a pop-up or throw.

-Ermac has a max of 80% damage corner combos.

-Aggressor mode is disabled.

-No Kombat Kodes that alter the gameplay.

-No relaunchers.

-No NW corner HK infinite.

-3 vs 3 with no repeated characters (R Smoke and H Smoke allowed to morph even if that counting 2 h Smoke in a team)

Personally, I can agree with a few of these rules.

Noob Saibot should definitely be banned. I personally do not think this is debatable. He can literally pull off his infinite anywhere on the screen. If you jump, he can teleport grab you into infinite. One mistake equals your death. Sure, it's 3v3, but being able to do an infinite virtually at will in not a good look for the game or for competition.

I also agree that Rain should be allowed. Banning his infinite and only allowed two reps is arguable.

Another thing I think should be banned is the universal corner d.HK and LP infinites. This will severely dumb the game down like how it does in UMK3. Both of these infinites are very easy to do and set-up, it makes getting cornered pretty much you losing that character.

The only other things I agree with are disabling aggressor mode, 3v3 Kombat (with no repeated characters), and No Kombat Kodes that alter the gameplay.

One thing that can be argued is not allowed to morph into Human Smoke with Robot Smoke after the first round. It essentially is like being able to change your character mid match. I wouldn't mind either way, but thought I'd mention it.

9.95 R.E.O. Shock MKK hanzo Insuperable OUIJA WARRIOR Dark_Rob NinjaGrinder Mikemetroid

 

[Shock]

I would ban bosses, maybe Khameleon, and I would let Noob run for at least one tournament to see what would happen. To be honest, he was always banned just merely through casual play even for PSX which is why I always said if we started running MKT PSX at events, I would try out tournaments with him unbanned and see. Otherwise, it's either ban him, or let him run free. I can't stand banning specific combos but that's just a personal belief.

The Robot Smoke/Human Smoke deal is something interesting to point out. This has always been a soft rule and I have seen some players over the years switch mid match. No one has ever complained but it would be a good idea to settle on a rule for it. Can Robot Smoke still do the Smoke code in MKT? I don't think I ever tried.

I wouldn't ban any infinites if Noob is allowed, if he is banned, I'd ban all those infinites. There is some whacky shit in N64 MKT. 3 on 3 with no repicks as the standard would be acceptable if infinites are allowed. All the the joshing about what should and should be legal in these games are part of the reason they were never run as tournaments around here. Too much stuff to agree upon and some players will completely deny how terrible some of it is, or overstate how bad something else is just to get something banned.

Regulating the Rain infinite is very easy to enforce obviously, the D+HK infs as well. How many should be allowed? I dunno. 3? It should be treated like a D+LP in the corner which has a 3 hit limit. I wouldn't regulate it at all.

I cannot agree with banning relaunchers. To some characters, it's extremely beneficial, others don't need them at all. For example in UMK3, imagine Classic Sub without it. I know he's steroided up in N64 MKT but how often do you hear someone say "You wouldn't have won without relaunchers?" I've never heard it.

Maxing Ermac's corner damage is another thing I can't agree with.

No aggressor
No game altering codes.

dreemernj Konqrr ded

 

[Mikemetroid]

No aggressor
No Noob
No Bosses
Rain infinites banned, don't know about the RH shit.
Universal Infinites Banned, not Relaunchers.
Maybe allow up two 2 samesies on a team

Maybe we can make a list of the "easy infinites" that should be banned...then leave the 1-3 frame relaunchers out of it.

 

[Shock]

For 3 on 3 it's 3 of the same vs 3 of the same, or 3 diff vs 3 diff, I don't think it can be any other way.

 

[Mikemetroid]

For 3 on 3 it's 3 of the same vs 3 of the same, or 3 diff vs 3 diff, I don't think it can be any other way.

maybe not having the doubles back2back?

 

[Glass Sword]

Since many people. Me being one of them have little to idea what these infinites look like here is a video to help out. Old news to the veterans, but interesting for people like me.

 

[Juggs]

The Robot Smoke/Human Smoke deal is something interesting to point out. This has always been a soft rule and I have seen some players over the years switch mid match. No one has ever complained but it would be a good idea to settle on a rule for it. Can Robot Smoke still do the Smoke code in MKT? I don't think I ever tried.

I never minded it in casuals, but in tournament, it seems a little unfair to be able to actually switch your character during the match. But, I wouldn't really mind either way.

I wouldn't ban any infinites if Noob is allowed, if he is banned, I'd ban all those infinites. There is some whacky shit in N64 MKT. 3 on 3 with no repicks as the standard would be acceptable if infinites are allowed. All the the joshing about what should and should be legal in these games are part of the reason they were never run as tournaments around here. Too much stuff to agree upon and some players will completely deny how terrible some of it is, or overstate how bad something else is just to get something banned.

Like I was telling Phil earlier, sure some characters would be able to compete with infinites of their own or playing perfectly with no mistakes. But that turns the game into a "who can land the infinite first" type of gameplay, which would be neither fun to play or watch.

Regulating the Rain infinite is very easy to enforce obviously, the D+HK infs as well. How many should be allowed? I dunno. 3? It should be treated like a D+LP in the corner which has a 3 hit limit. I wouldn't regulate it at all.

3 sounds about right. What about the corner jab infinite though? Not d.LP, but just the LP one that is also in UMK3?

I cannot agree with banning relaunchers. To some characters, it's extremely beneficial, others don't need them at all. For example in UMK3, imagine Classic Sub without it. I know he's steroided up in N64 MKT but how often do you hear someone say "You wouldn't have won without relaunchers?" I've never heard it.

Yeah, relaunchers take precise timing and skill, they should not be banned imo.

Maxing Ermac's corner damage is another thing I can't agree with.

What do you mean? You don't think he should be allowed to do 100%?

 

[Shock]

I never minded it in casuals, but in tournament, it seems a little unfair to be able to actually switch your character during the match. But, I wouldn't really mind either way.



Like I was telling Phil earlier, sure some characters would be able to compete with infinites of their own or playing perfectly with no mistakes. But that turns the game into a "who can land the infinite first" type of gameplay, which would be neither fun to play or watch.



3 sounds about right. What about the corner jab infinite though? Not d.LP, but just the LP one that is also in UMK3?



Yeah, relaunchers take precise timing and skill, they should not be banned imo.



What do you mean? You don't think he should be allowed to do 100%?

Corner jab block string infinite, IMO, should be banned from all 2D MK.

For Ermac I mean I can't agree with a max limit of damage. 80% is so arbitrary. IMO you'd be better off saying he can only do 1 TKS per combo, or a max of 3 hits between the TKS, which would reduce his combos, but by that point, you might as well not even play the game. He rarely wins tournaments.

 

[Eddy Wang]

nice rules, i like it.
btw, what is wrong with the relaunchers? the best ermac combos comes from it.

 

[Shock]

nice rules, i like it.
btw, what is wrong with the relaunchers? the best ermac combos comes from it.

I would argue that his worst combos involve relaunchers because they are extremely difficult to successfully incorporate into his TKS combo, unless of course you mean his knee lift bounce combos, which are really awesome.

 

[Eddy Wang]

I would argue that his worst combos involve relaunchers because they are extremely difficult to successfully incorporate into his TKS combo, unless of course you mean his knee lift bounce combos, which are really awesome.

knee lift all day shock ^^

 

[Juggs]

Corner jab block string infinite, IMO, should be banned from all 2D MK.

100% agree

For Ermac I mean I can't agree with a max limit of damage. 80% is so arbitrary. IMO you'd be better off saying he can only do 1 TKS per combo, or a max of 3 hits between the TKS, which would reduce his combos, but by that point, you might as well not even play the game. He rarely wins tournaments.

Yeah, I don't think there should be damage limits either.

 

[9.95]

This is what R.E.O. and I were discussing yesterday... this was from a PM from me to REO.



Corner infinite - We should discuss this, but I am inclined to leave it in. It's in UMK3 and it was never argued, plus the 3v3 means it's not immediately a done deal when that character is dead.

Character specific infinites (not d.hk infinites) like Rain, Reptile, Lao, Stryker, etc. - I would leave these ALL legal.

Corner d.hk infinite - not sure what you think here, but again, I'm inclined to let it be either all or nothing, or SHEEVA ONLY allowed, LOL.

Noob - his inf. is really stupid easy so either no infinite or banned

Ermac - no changes required. Their rule of only 80% in corner makes no sense.

Aggressor - I'd say leave it off or matches can be stupid fast. The game is more fun when you allow the matches to play out.

Relaunchers - easier in MKT, but still require skill and timing. I think it's hype when someone like me evens up a match when I catch a player of your skill in a relaunch. I say leave them.

NW Corner inf. - legal in UMK3 and if we're gonna leave the corner lp inf. in, we leave this in. If we remove the corner lp inf, we remove this too.

Armory - it is what it is...exit and restart if we get it.

3v3 no repeated characters, but R. Smoke NOT allowed to morph as long as H. Smoke is available the way we do it.

That all being said, and the convo I had with AK Juggs and reading what Shock has said here, I think a few more minor refinements may be in order.

LP Corner infinite, d.hk/d.lp corner infs - if Noob is NOT banned, these stay IN. If he's banned, then we can take them out. Keep in mind though, that the 3v3 kind of ends the infinite because when the character is dead, you're not trapped in it anymore.

Character specific Infinites - all legal, except Noob. Rain legal with inf. legal as well. It not only requires timing, but spacing as well.

Noob - any way to simply ban his infinite and leave the character in?

Ermac - no damage limits

Aggressor - off

Relaunchers - legal

NW corner inf - same as LP corner inf. Remove it if we remove the LP one

3v3 - NO REPEATS. H.Smoke and R.Smoke are different characters so no morphing.

Khameleon - she seems very difficult to use effectively due to the fast pace of her character change. Not sure how good she'd be, so I'm inclined to leaver her legal.

 

[9.95]

I would argue that his worst combos involve relaunchers because they are extremely difficult to successfully incorporate into his TKS combo, unless of course you mean his knee lift bounce combos, which are really awesome.

The knee lift bounce combos are super fun to watch.

 

[9.95]

Corner jab block string infinite, IMO, should be banned from all 2D MK.

For Ermac I mean I can't agree with a max limit of damage. 80% is so arbitrary. IMO you'd be better off saying he can only do 1 TKS per combo, or a max of 3 hits between the TKS, which would reduce his combos, but by that point, you might as well not even play the game. He rarely wins tournaments.

In the n64 version of the game, he only gets one TKS unless it's a naked lift, then he can get 2. I would not limit it.

 

[EdFig81]

9.95 Shock REO AK Juggs Dark_Rob Konqrr


EDIT/UPDATE : 9.95 responded to me please disregard the post below........



In regards to 3 vs 3. I don't remember but i recall you were able to pick 3 of the same character. Should this be banned? With the other rules already in place it shouldn't be an issue.

I would argue that kung lao can be a real pain in the ass though. His spin spin moves if i remember right on N64 like it does on PS1 which use to have many infiinites in the cornor. I don't have an issue with the Kung Lao combos from UMK But I always use to get extra salty in MKT as my friend would just do the hat spin run up and repeat until i was walked to a cornor. That and it discouraged my other friends from wanting to play/learn the game. Again i could be wrong if Kung Lao has this in MKT for 64.

Again its about TIME this game gets some love!!!

 

[9.95]

9.95 Shock REO AK Juggs Dark_Rob Konqrr
In regards to 3 vs 3. I don't remember but i recall you were able to pick 3 of the same character. Should this be banned? With the other rules already in place it shouldn't be an issue but i would argue that kung lao can be a real pain in the ass. His spin spin moves if i remember right on N64 like it does on PS1 which use to have many infiinites in the cornor. I don't have an issue with the Kung Lao combos from UMK But I always use to get extra salty in MKT as my friend would just do the hat spin run up and repeat until i was walked to a cornor. That and it discouraged my other friends from wanting to play/learn the game. Again i could be wrong if Kung Lao has this in MKT for 64.

Again its about TIME this game gets some love!!!

In MKT Lao has a limit of 1 spin per combo.

Regarding 3v3, we've all pretty much universally agreed 3 diff vs 3 diff. The only question is whether or not R. Smoke is allowed to change to H.Smoke, but I personally prefer making R.Smoke and H.Smoke diff. characters with no changing allowed.

 

[EdFig81]

In MKT Lao has a limit of 1 spin per combo.

Regarding 3v3, we've all pretty much universally agreed 3 diff vs 3 diff. The only question is whether or not R. Smoke is allowed to change to H.Smoke, but I personally prefer making R.Smoke and H.Smoke diff. characters with no changing allowed.

Being they have seperate slots i can see why it shouldn't be allowed. I can also see why some may get upset at this rule down the line. I consider both UMK and MKT on N64 different games but most of the core characters/designs are from UMK with a few changes here and there. Robo Smoke was disgned with the human smoke code/change since UMK. If he still has it in Trilogy i think it was always part of his orginal design since UMK.

With both Human & Robo Smoke on the character select screen & the human smoke code still in the game this could of been more then likely an error when making MKT. I say allow it for a bit and see if it really changes the game/seems unfair. If it does it can be banned and no one can argue on it however if everyone agrees on banning it now then by all means I support that and I can only imagine its easier to ban now then later.

 

[SAREDODEVIL]

Since many people. Me being one of them have little to idea what these infinites look like here is a video to help out. Old news to the veterans, but interesting for people like me.

fuckins sick.

 

[MKK hanzo]

Haha this thread.

Cant go into detail now since im from phone (btw looks beautiful tym mobile) but if infs are allowed then the game is one hit kill at the highest level.

Play Marvel or Bushido Blade instead XD

Serious note: play however way you want IF it its for fun. If its seriously all SA countries have their rules for something.

Hope you guys level up fast and see for yourselves why those made up rules exists (or were agreed upon)

Btw im glad (and shocked) that MKT n64 is getting love and even being called the best MK on the US and even more in these forums from where much ppl called us out for even mentioning MKTn64 or comparing it to UMK3. Epic.

God stuff

 

[Shock]

lol MKK hanzo, I myself will never refer to N64 MKT as the best MK, but if players want to give it a shot, it's worth it.

9.95 are you sure that Ermac can't do 3 hits between TKS like in the other games? I don't remember if I ever tested that.

 

[Juggs]

lol MKK hanzo, I myself will never refer to N64 MKT as the best MK, but if players want to give it a shot, it's worth it.

Personally, I say it's the best because to me it's the most fun, most technical, and most competitive. It's also the most nostalgic for me, it's the main MK game I played growing up.

 

[9.95]

lol MKK hanzo, I myself will never refer to N64 MKT as the best MK, but if players want to give it a shot, it's worth it.

9.95 are you sure that Ermac can't do 3 hits between TKS like in the other games? I don't remember if I ever tested that.

R.E.O. and I were testing stuff with Ermac, but we can test this again this week.

 

[Juggs]

R.E.O. and I were testing stuff with Ermac, but we can test this again this week.

Do you think you guys can list the differences with UMK3 Ermac to MKT Ermac?

 

[MKK hanzo]

You can do 3 tlks on mkt n64 after a naked one.

Tlk, kneelift but miss the lk hit, walk, rising jk, tlk repeat. Kind of hard and dmg scales too much.

3 hits between tlks are possible but not the same used in umk3.

Juggs: principal differences are longer cooldown between tlks but shorter on teleports. Jp animation is different they used the teleport sprites so has a better reach. Kneelift bounce can be done even while missing the knee.