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MK9 and SF4, how comparable?

I started messing around with SSF4AE PC for the heck of it, I couldn't figure out combo linking but now I understand sorta from this thread. Whats plinking/piano exactly? Are there wakeups like MK? I get cornered and I'm like "wakeup shoryuken!" but no, I just keep getting thrashed :p

Another thing I noticed is how specific special inputs are, like hadooken isn't just kinda mash down forward punch at the same time which works well for MK, but it seems you have to do the motions, and after the motions hit punch.
 
I started messing around with SSF4AE PC for the heck of it, I couldn't figure out combo linking but now I understand sorta from this thread. Whats plinking/piano exactly? Are there wakeups like MK? I get cornered and I'm like "wakeup shoryuken!" but no, I just keep getting thrashed :p

Another thing I noticed is how specific special inputs are, like hadooken isn't just kinda mash down forward punch at the same time which works well for MK, but it seems you have to do the motions, and after the motions hit punch.
Think of it this way. In MK if you do a combo, everything connects to everything you just mash it out as fast as possible, and that's all there is to it.

In SF each normal move has start up frames, active frames, and recovery frames, and the character has hit stun. So when you're linking, you're linking a move because the character is in hit stun long enough for your move to recover, and the next moves active frames can connect while the other guy is in hit stun. A frame = 1/60th of a second. Depending on the link, you may have one, two, three (you get the idea) amount of frames to hit the next button to link it. To soon your move doesn't come out, you drop the combo and get mulched. To late and it doesn't link and you get reversal'd in your combo, or the guy gets a chance to block the rest of it.

So combo's can get extremely complex requiring multiple links and differing timings for each of the links.

Plinking is priority linking, you hit two attacks right after each other (ie piano the buttons) and it gives you two chances to land the link as the game engine will automatically pick the right option, provided you do it correctly. It's an "easier" way to land complex links, but it's still rather technical.

Of course, there are other rules as well. Some characters have target combos (kinda like MK where you just dial through things and skill means nothing) or chain moves (a move that automatically goes into itself, ie Ryu crouch and mash out light punch). It's completely possible to have a combo that requires both chains and links, or linking into a target combo.

SF does have wakeup moves, but it's not done like MK where moves have special properties on wakeup. SRK moves are used as wakeups because they have some amount of invulnerability around them, which is really what you're using for wakeup. However the timing on these moves is far stricter and you have to be far more exact with them than you do in MK. For other characters, ala Bison, often only the EX version of a move has any invincibility so you need to have meter to mount a proper wake up. It's also possible that you try a wake up attack against a move that has more invincibility or even armor on it and you're wakeup attack fails because it ran out of invinciblity sooner (not all frames of these moves have invinciblity and not all of the character is invincible while doing them). So you need to be a lot more careful with them, it's character specific, and the timing is rather strict.

And yep, the special moves are pretty specific and you have to hit all the motions, with some execptions ie you don't have to do a full 360 with Zangief to get his throw.

SF has always been like this and to be fully honest SF4 is the easiest and least demanding of all the SF games when it comes to this sort of stuff.

The plus side is if you can master linking and all the stuff that goes into combos in SF a lot of games become instantly a ton easier.

The best advice I can give you is to try the tutorials for a few characters. Ryu has some good basic links and cancels in his and Ibuki has some target combos and links. That's the best way to start and then go from there. Just keep in mind that there is no way out of links in SF4, you will have to learn them eventually and it's going to be a grind to get them down.
 

MagicMan357

"130 ms is more legit than Labbing" - TYM
SF isnt complex its just very technical
But MK beats it in almost every department especially just being fun

Best SF's: SF3, SFA3
Best MK's: MKT, Mk9

I also dont understand why people think linking combos is hard? Its all time memorization.
 
I know I'm going against the grain, but I personally find SFIV to be one of the worst fighting games out in the market today.

Now, I'm not against Capcom (at least, not their fighters). I still find SFAlpha2Gold to be one of the best there is, I think Darkstalkers 3 is perfect, and I legit enjoyed their forays in Capcom VS SNK2.

That said, I hate SFIV's engine, hitbox detection, the 1-frame execution on combos which would give any normal person carpel tunnel, and art direction. I honestly believe that if that game didn't have the name "Street Fighter" attached to it, it wouldn't even be a big part of the tournament circuit today.

Sure, you can use it to become more advanced in your 2D fighting skills, that's true. It's, at least, technical and expansive in what you'll learn. One thing it doesn't have, especially compared to MK, is any sort of fun factor, or desire to get better. At least, for me.

If I want a technical, deep fighter to help me improve my skills, I'd go back to studying VF4: EVO.

Just my .02
 

DIRTY

Noob
Offline, MK and SF are both great games. Of course each have their flaws and imbalance issues, Which both development studios tweak periodically.

SF Online = Wins/Losses based on skill.

MK Online = Wins/Losses based on skill and where you live.
 
can u do 1 frame combos all day?
I can, people who say it gives you carpal tunnel are doing it wrong.. there's no way you should be hurting yourself doing them. When I first started playing I went about it entirely wrong, I was way too rough with the stick (incoming innuendos) you have to be pretty damn gentle on it, and just go through the motions slowly. If you try to mash it out you'll fail miserably, and after you get used to it, its not near as bad as people make it out to be.
 
Honestly at this point in the games life, I wouldn't spend too much time on SSF4/AE. People just have way too many years on you. Play it for fun or whatever, and maybe up your execution, but I wouldn't stress over it, especially if you're on a pad.
Everyone who has stuck with MK since this past game's launch is going to have major advantage for sticking with the game if they release MK10 and it pulls more of the SF crowd in (Mk10 is cool now because I heard it on SRK, like they fixed like hitboxes n stuff).

Switching back and forth between games can help, but it also hurts. Blocking is muscle memory in both games, you don't want to end up hitting back down instead of R2 and down lol. One thing I do notice is that after playing SF I tend to avoid things without dash-blocking excessively in MK, successfully for the most part.
That said I do respect the game, but I don't think its as good as people make it out to be. I'm so sick of the original SF cast (near 25 years old ffs, time for something new or at least Darkstalkers), and a lot of the cast feels so bland, even though its trying so hard to be over-the-top. That and giving people free chances at ultras EVERY ROUND is possibly the worst mechanic I've ever seen in a fighting game.

If I want a technical, deep fighter to help me improve my skills, I'd go back to studying VF4: EVO.
The only argument you need. Seriously, why is it that if it doesn't have fireballs and crazy finishers it can't be a big game in the US.
 

SpyderJ

Noob
The only argument you need. Seriously, why is it that if it doesn't have fireballs and crazy finishers it can't be a big game in the US.
Well probably since everything is now expected to have some form of a spectacle fighter in it. Personaly i dont think theres anything wrong with it, i meen hell games do get boring, technical / skill based or not. I guess it just keeps the attention of the crowds theyre trying to appeal to, which generaly is between 16-24 or so ( just a general number there, probably very off )
 
Wow, linking down to the frame? how the heck can people combo online then :)
Luck really. If there is the slightest bit of lag, you drop it. But this goes back to why a lot of people who are good at fighters just don't play them online, or if you do your tactics change because somethings are not viable.

Online isn't a good judge of fighting game skill period.

I know I'm going against the grain, but I personally find SFIV to be one of the worst fighting games out in the market today.
Not really. The vast majority of SF gamers agree SFIV to be crap compared to third strike, alpha 2, or super turbo on just about all levels. Most people also view MVC2 as being a better game than MVC3.

I can, people who say it gives you carpal tunnel are doing it wrong.. there's no way you should be hurting yourself doing them. When I first started playing I went about it entirely wrong, I was way too rough with the stick (incoming innuendos) you have to be pretty damn gentle on it, and just go through the motions slowly. If you try to mash it out you'll fail miserably, and after you get used to it, its not near as bad as people make it out to be.
Yeah, you shouldn't get hurt playing SF, if you are you're doing it wrong. One of my friends is learning SF, he comes from MK so he mashes like a madman, extra button presses, motion inputs all jacked up... works in MK but won't work at all in SF. I keep telling him to spend a few hours in training mode with a beer or two and take it slow.

The only argument you need. Seriously, why is it that if it doesn't have fireballs and crazy finishers it can't be a big game in the US.
Ummm Tekken, Soul Caliber? Capcom has the largest fan base and has some of the most complex mechanics, and the fighting community did start around it. Other games come and go from EVO but tekken is now permanent.

VF has been at major events to, it's just that nobody plays it.
 
The online is 1000x better you need much more execution and timing and you actually have to link your combos together instead of dial a combo they are both great games i prefer SF though.
I agree 100% the most notable difference is the timing on combos & the blocking
 
Ummm Tekken, Soul Caliber? Capcom has the largest fan base and has some of the most complex mechanics, and the fighting community did start around it. Other games come and go from EVO but tekken is now permanent.

VF has been at major events to, it's just that nobody plays it.
Soulcalibur, as of SCIV, had Critical Finishers.
Now it has Critical Edges, executable using a meter.

Tekken IS flashy.

Capcom being, almost single handedly, responsible for the rise of fighting games doesn't mean that all the games they make are golden.

SVC: CHAOS, MVC3 and SFIV are proof of that.
 
with SF4 you will be forced to react faster than you would in MK9. your reactions will increase by playing SF4. also will you be forced to poke a lot in sf4, this shall also improve your game with MK.

if you want to improve your skills, u should play lots of Japanese games. Garouden fist or twist is definitely a good (close to perfect) game that improves skills just by watching it.
 
Not comparable at all. SF requires that you be perfect with combos and what moves to throw out. you can't be random and win. Scrubs get BODIED. Unlike in MK where pretty much anyone can win. I bought SF a week after MK released and I play it a helluva lot more than MK. Yet I feel I'm much much better at MK. One thing that is different in SF is that once you learn the basics, you can play every character. But mastering a character takes an amazing amount of time. I can do random select all day and win matches in SF. But if I get Scorpion or Sheeva or someone I'm unfamiliar with in MK I get destroyed. There's lots of differences. Only thing that stays is fighting fundamentals like combos, safe jumps, mixups, crossups, pokes, etc. I recommend picking it up. Once you're used to the game it's loads of fun. and just playing casually with friends is immensely more satisfying than playing casuals in MK. Both great, very different. Fuck Fanboys.

/$0.02
 
with SF4 you will be forced to react faster than you would in MK9. your reactions will increase by playing SF4.
Not true.
Reaction time is less to do with training and more about genetics and age, mostly you're really just learning how to enter a deeper focus and read things better, which translates to more consistent reactions.
theres a small 1% thats just going to be MUCH faster (100ms) than the rest of us. Luckily they probably gravitate towards sports.
 

MagicMan357

"130 ms is more legit than Labbing" - TYM
ummm who mashes in mk? They must be a scrub

mashing legit Does not work in MK so that argument is krud