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MK4 vs MK Gold

randyth

randyth

Noob
ded said:
can you point me to a thread or sub-forum?
Click to expand...
Hell yeah!

http://forum.mamedev.org/viewforum.php?f=14
and
http://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/postlist.php?Cat=&Board=mamechat&page=1&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=

I'll even provide a sample text so you can concentrate on the screenshots:

Subject: Zeus/MK4 drivers improvements in MAME
Content:

Dear devs,

Since the great work of revers-engineering the undocumented Zeus hardware and implementing it in Mame, [URL='https://testyourmight.com']the MK community[/url] has enjoyed the nostalgia of seeing the arcade version of MK4 running in MAME (special thanks to Aaron Giles and everyone else involved)!

The arcade version really stands out over the home ports as its graphics are much better (higher polygon counts , rendering effects etc) and it's simply THE version that the MK4 arcade players have grown up with and recognize.

Unfortunately the current Zeus drivers don't represent the game in its full glory yet.
For example there are many lighting/particle effects unemulated that really improve the game and can make the game feel from an old crude quick project to a polished modern high-profile game.

The following screenshots will give an impression of the missing effects.

The whole MK community would love to see a more complete MK4 driver someday that could render the game in its full glory.
We hope this information can help and spark some interest.

Best regards,
Ded on behalf of the MK community
Click to expand...
 
Reactions: ded
Mgo

Mgo

Apprentice
ded said:
to be honest, MK4 arcade is my second favorite MK game (right after UMK3),
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Me too, I dont know why people hate that and even worse put mk1 (that is boring as hell comparing to mk4, at least on vs mode) above mk4. If you told them mk4 is better than mk1 they would think you re crazy.
Btw I should search if there is a way to connect a keyboard to an mk4 arcade (although it could sound stupid lol)
 
ded

ded

Elder God
@randyth i've checked the first link, since the second is blocked at work and noticed the following in the forum rules:
6) Requests about making specific machine(s) or driver(s) more playable will likely be ignored or deleted.
Click to expand...
 
randyth

randyth

Noob
ded said:
@randyth i've checked the first link, since the second is blocked at work and noticed the following in the forum rules:
Click to expand...
I see. We can rephrase certain sentences so it will still remain within the rules.
Instead of a request, we simply do a complimentive and informative post which thanks all the devs, displays differences of the rendering between the original and MAME (so players won't judge the game by the MAME version and also maybe help devs in understanding rendering effects with the given screenshots)

Something like this:

Subject: MK4 community feedback
Content:

Since the great work of reverse-engineering parts of the undocumented Zeus hardware and implementing it in Mame, the MK community (testyourmight.com) has enjoyed the nostalgia of seeing the arcade version of MK4 running in MAME. With this post we would like to thank Aaron Giles and everyone else involved! We all owe you guys a beer!

While it isn't a complete emulation yet (many lighting/particle/texture effects are yet unemulated), it is enough for us fans to get excited about (and get that nostalgia we crave for). This is because the arcade version really is a superior version over the home ports (eg its graphics are superior with the higher polygon counts , rendering effects etc) and it's simply THE version that the MK4 arcade players have grown up with and recognize.

Unfortunately we see many people talking about the bad graphics of MK4 in MAME (and writing MK4 off as an old crude quick project).
In this informative post I would like to display the differences between MK4 in full rendering glory and the incomplete MAME rendering so everyone can get an impression of how the original arcade version really looks like (namely a more polished modern high-profile game). We also hope this information might help certain devs in getting insight in the yet unemulated parts of the ZEUS hardware.

The following screenshots give an impression of differences in the rendering:


We hope this information can help and spark some interest in the game.

Best regards,
Ded on behalf of the MK community
Click to expand...
 
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Reactions: ded
ded

ded

Elder God
@randyth here is a short video i made. hopefully it will also bring interest:

I will check with Gambid and @STORMS if we can front page it on both MKSecrets and TestYourMight. @YourMKArcadeSource also said he will help if anything is required.

Both mame forum links are also in the description.
 
randyth

randyth

Noob
ded said:
@randyth here is a short video i made. hopefully it will also bring interest:

I will check with Gambid and @STORMS if we can front page it on both MKSecrets and TestYourMight. @YourMKArcadeSource also said he will help if anything is required.

Both mame forum links are also in the description.
Click to expand...
Nice video. I think Lui Kangs ending and Scorpions ending show the biggest difference (with the shadowing effects etc).
Sub Zero's ending on the other hand looks better in MAME imo :).
 
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randyth

randyth

Noob
ded said:
posted:
http://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=359840&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1

http://forum.mamedev.org/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=133
Click to expand...
After a bumpy start, it looks like the posting did have some success.
Not only did we get some reactions from actual big-shot mame devs,....we actually got attention from HAZE!!!!
For those who don't know, Haze is the legendary dev that made SF3 emulation in MAME possible!!

Also notice the comment by R.Belmont (maintainer of MAME):
We like being pestered based on high-quality PCB captures with comparison MAME shots, like this.
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Your post is legit!

It seems they are not yet convinced that the differences are originating from missing ZEUS features (they think they are originating from monitor settings). We might need to provide a higher quality (original resolution?) comparison with more focus in the differences.
 
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Reactions: ded
ded

ded

Elder God
I've post another screenshot to show few obviously differences. However, I was not familiar with gouraud effect. Dunno if MAME has issues with that overall or it is just not emulated because of ZEUS yet.
 
randyth

randyth

Noob
ded said:
I've post another screenshot to show few obviously differences. However, I was not familiar with gouraud effect. Dunno if MAME has issues with that overall or it is just not emulated because of ZEUS yet.
Click to expand...
The discussed shading in that area has not been imlemented (yet) in the ZEUS driver. It's not an overall MAME issue, but a specific game issue. So you pointed to a very valid and legit issue.

Let's hope te devs will actually look into the ZEUS driver and figure out these issues.

Have you (or other members) also seen other areas in MK4 with differences in renderings? I guess now is the time to let them know it all.
 
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ded

ded

Elder God
Well, despite almost all the light, shadow and gouraud effects, there are few more things i noticed:

Notice Fujin's pants how they are black/green.






Missing sky on Sonya, Jarek, Jax, Kai and Raiden endings (and The Tomb stage obliviously).

 
randyth

randyth

Noob
ded said:
Well, despite almost all the light, shadow and gouraud effects, there are few more things i noticed:Notice Fujin's pants how they are black/green.

sky on Sonya, Jarek, Jax, Kai and Raiden endings (and The Tomb stage obliviously).
Click to expand...
The glitchy pants and missing sky are definately new issues that the devs should know.
I don't know what the last quanchi picture should show. If it is the texture shading of the grid in the back,..then that is already pointed out by you in the previous posts.

Very nice findings ded! I see more mame devs (Ville Linde) have joined the dicsussion.
They will love these screenshots!
 
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ded

ded

Elder God
I posted the screenshots, but honestly, it is very surprising that they still need to be convinced the emulation of the game is far from complete. Was worth the shot at least :)
 
randyth

randyth

Noob
ded said:
I posted the screenshots, but honestly, it is very surprising that they still need to be convinced the emulation of the game is far from complete. Was worth the shot at least :)
Click to expand...
I think the devs don't play MK4 and know nothing about the original game. Also I think there haven't been many other MAME MK4 players (capable of playing the game at playable speed). Hence little to no bug reports. We might be the first one to actually go this deep in details (and posting it).

But you're playing a very important role in getting these drivers 100% corrected with these detailed bug-reports. I believe the willingness of the devs are present and they are beginning to believe you.
 
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ded

ded

Elder God
@randyth I saw your post with Mark's E-Mail. In case you can get in touch with the DEVS and provide the documentation would be great!

Just to let you know ZEUS 2 is used for The Grid (would love to see that emulated as well tho) and Cruis'n Exotica. MK4 use ZEUS 1. I also posted that in MAME forums.
 
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