Seeker of knowledge
still pretty sure kitana loses that one, srry m8
Played a few times against Shang as Frost. I'd say that it's 50-50. Neither a good, nor a bad MU.I'd like to propose that the following can just be assumed unless someone starts testing and finding otherwise:
Default Bad Matchups:
Default Good Matchups:
If any of these are untrue, THEN I'd suggest it's worth discussing.
As I've already said before, she can only punish skulls at certain range and has to flawless block into a tight timing when she is in it. Skulls still dictate the whole neutral game.I feel like both variations are very annoying in their own way, but it is really close to a 5-5 imo. In her first variation she can punish ground skulls with square wave, and in the second one she can outzone you pretty bad with the mileena stance while also counter zoning you.
I don't think anyone in the game can anti-air Kitana when she jumps in the sweetspot of her J2, I feel like even tho Shang has good anti-airs he loses most of the time when trying to beat a well-spaced Jump in.
She can deal with his zoning very well, and her straight projectile knocks down when amplified, and that is a huge problem for Shang across his matchups. When he has the lifelead, he can zone her just fine. Once he loses it, all trades against Kit's fan are unfavorable as they leave him in very disadvantageous situations unless he trades with an amplified corpse, which is pretty rare as it comes out very slowly.
Kit's normals can also compete with Shang's in neutral, and they can be very tricky to deal with in some situations. His pokes are definitely better than hers but the majority of the match won't be played at the range where it matters.
The reason why I think Kit has a slight advantage here is bc I think this is a heavily lifelead based matchup. Whoever has the lead gets to stay back and wait for the other to come. Kitana has the tools to chase Shang down just fine, she has ways around everything he can throw at her and she can get her offense going when she needs to. Shang, on the other hand, is terrible at chasing people down. If he doesn't have the lead he struggles getting around her projectiles, her normals, he can't jump in on her, he can't risk yolo ground skulls, he really has to work to get to a competent Kitana.
Which variation u are using? Her classic one has an easier time getting to Shang, while her Sai variation can win the zoning war outside of ground skulls range more easily.As I've already said before, she can only punish skulls at certain range and has to flawless block into a tight timing when she is in it. Skulls still dictate the whole neutral game.
I literally have to think twice before jumping against a good Shang because he can AA her everytime in my experience, a far j2 you can just walk out of.
Kitana with a lifelead means nothing, she has no way to chip you without taking a huge risk. He still gets guaranteed chip off skulls, corpse and he can actually launch you at pretty much any point. She needs meter to even make any attempt of a trade worthy. And she gets a fan check at best before she has to respect skulls again. Meanwhile if he has a lifelead it's pretty much over. Even against Kitana on a lifelead he can block fan toss and reversal skull at ranges where she can't punish them. She literally has to respect that, once that's a thing he can go for f3/f4 stuff.
in the neutral her normals contest his, true! however... Skulls are what make his neutral better than hers free.
I had the oportunity to fight Foxy in this mu and god was it annoying, he is a much better player of course but I just think Shang players ar playing it so wrong, I usually beat most of them but they aren't doing any of the important stuff in the mu. The neutral is literally very bad for her if you use ground skulls correctly.
Just wanna say, sorry for the late response. I don't come here very often anymore...What are your thoughts on the Shang (Warlock)-Kano MU? I can usually "get by" on MU's I am not familiar with, but I got exposed in ranked yesterday by a fairly good Kano...Like nearly double flawless exposed.
What range/tools are best to fight Kano as Shang? I have other characters that I use, but I wanna be sure that I explore my options (if any) with Shang first.
Thank you so much!! I will look into incorporating this next time. Yea, they were like the 3rd type you mentioned for sure lolJust wanna say, sorry for the late response. I don't come here very often anymore...
Anyhow! People may or may not agree with my matchup numbers in this thread but I do believe that if you're using Warlock it would will be 6-4 in Shang favors simply because Shang out performs Kano in one particular playstyle, Zoning.
Because of that you three types of Kano players. One that attempts to zone at the very beginning only to realize and they're not going to win that war, the second one knows that right out of the gate and just rushes and the third one is a mix of both + knowing there ranges...sounds like you face the third.
Just mix up your options after zoning to get an approach opportunity such as. . .
One last thing, if you want to get cheeky with a Kano player just pick Soul Eater variation and do a string into Rain's kick and microduck...They love throwing you out of something that looks negative.
- F2 & B1 throw loops
- F3/F4 mix
- Finishing F2 string into plus frames
- just to name a few.
OK, second last thing. I don't know how much you play Shang Tsung hopefully most of that stuff makes sense if it don't please tag me or DM.