MK11 Johnny Cage General Discussion

[ismael4790]

I think Cage has potential to be good. F3 not being a mid seems wack in this game when all it's about neutral and you need to have something good that advances.

Nutpunch on hit seems low rewarding in terms of pressure considering he has no mix. But I'm not feeling he is a bad char. He has good antiairs and is able to get decent chip, and the Caged Rage move (which btw could use a speed adjustment) is good when the opponent is scared blocking. His projectile, altough it is a high, is pretty fast.

I don't think this char will be top tier at all, but he's not trash. The second variation, as some have pointed out, doesn't make much sense at the moment, outside getting longer grounded combos with the camera.

 

[Bigrig]

Also given that steve Brownback is in control of balancing let's look at some red flags.

On JCs reveal he stated that he never beats dizzy
-counterpicks dizzy on his reveal
-mentions at least 4 downsides to JCs gameplay that he didn't have in x (also most characters only have one downside)
- You have to use all your krushing blows right off the bat deleting any chance of a comeback
-its stated that Johnny's best way of opening someone up is grabbing, which can be D2'd really easily, even on accident
-shades whiff, so do the forceballs
-Stunt doubles take three slots as well as shadowkick meaning he has nothing else to mix and mash for variety
-his dash cancels only exist at 30% health and you get ONE EVERY TEN SECONDS
-say cheese is a garbage Restand

Now heres the worst part, it's obvious that the NRS team have turned him into Dan habiki given that most jokes in this game are aimed at him not him making fun of the opponent and that he gets hurt in almost everything, his round taunts are mainly jokes made against him and his story mode chapter was a horrendous display of the cast shitting all over his "MIsOGyNIstIc" personality.
It's obvious they made him bad on purpose.

 

[Saltea Mike]

Wondering... ANY reason to use Cage's D3 over D4?

 

[Mikemetroid]

Johnny is good, you all need to have a fuckin brain when you play this game and not just do relentless pressure. It is OBVIOUS that there is a way to blow Cage's stuff up... use it to your advantage. CONDITION your opponent.

His 2nd variation is ass for sure though lol

 

[Rodney Quillz]

Johnny is good, you all need to have a fuckin brain when you play this game and not just do relentless pressure. It is OBVIOUS that there is a way to blow Cage's stuff up... use it to your advantage. CONDITION your opponent.

His 2nd variation is ass for sure though lol

I needed to hear this man, I was starting to lose faith in my boi.

Back to the lab I go

 

[Wigy]

Eh Parry+Cage Rage brings more to the table than quite a few variations in the game. I don't think people realize how trash the variations are right now overall. They clearly rushed the fuck out of them.

Parry's are amazing in this game. You can punish wakeups hard.

 

[Wigy]

Johnny is good, you all need to have a fuckin brain when you play this game and not just do relentless pressure. It is OBVIOUS that there is a way to blow Cage's stuff up... use it to your advantage. CONDITION your opponent.

His 2nd variation is ass for sure though lol

Amen brother. His pokes are ridiculous. You can machine gun poke some characters to Oblivion

 

[Rodney Quillz]

Also given that steve Brownback is in control of balancing let's look at some red flags.

On JCs reveal he stated that he never beats dizzy
-counterpicks dizzy on his reveal
-mentions at least 4 downsides to JCs gameplay that he didn't have in x (also most characters only have one downside)
- You have to use all your krushing blows right off the bat deleting any chance of a comeback
-its stated that Johnny's best way of opening someone up is grabbing, which can be D2'd really easily, even on accident
-shades whiff, so do the forceballs
-Stunt doubles take three slots as well as shadowkick meaning he has nothing else to mix and mash for variety
-his dash cancels only exist at 30% health and you get ONE EVERY TEN SECONDS
-say cheese is a garbage Restand

Now heres the worst part, it's obvious that the NRS team have turned him into Dan habiki given that most jokes in this game are aimed at him not him making fun of the opponent and that he gets hurt in almost everything, his round taunts are mainly jokes made against him and his story mode chapter was a horrendous display of the cast shitting all over his "MIsOGyNIstIc" personality.
It's obvious they made him bad on purpose.

His younger personality WAS dan hibiki(not in the terrible fighter way, but thinking he was better than everyone else in a delusion of grandeur way.) but you see the older version that kicked shinnok around matured greatly beating everyone’s ass lol.

 

[M.D.]

What a joke.
Condition the opponent to make mistakes?
What if you're playing 50% wonder geras or safe5050spamkang and you have 2 mistakes to do to die and he has to do 7?

Nobody wants Cage god tier here, but the obvious imbalance against other similar chars is horribly showing.

 

[Mikemetroid]

What a joke.
Condition the opponent to make mistakes?
What if you're playing 50% wonder geras or safe5050spamkang and you have 2 mistakes to do to die and he has to do 7?

Nobody wants Cage god tier here, but the obvious imbalance against other similar chars is horribly showing.

I know its a hard concept to understand but yeah, condition your opponent. There is no one way to do that, everyone gets conditioned by different things. Throws, elbow strikes, finishing strings, not finishing strings, baiting people. Whatever it may be. I'm still learning MUs but so far I think he's a lot better than what you guys make him out to be, it is WAY too early to be bitchin this hard, ya dig?

That being said, the thing we should be bitching about for sure is that second variation, what the fuck NRS? lol

 

[MrMaxAwesome]

Show Stopper/Say Cheese's grounded combo options could potentially be a counterplay to breakaways, but it's wack compared to Nutpunch besides that gimmick.
Throwing Shades reminds me of Krillin's Rock or Dudley's Rose but much much worse. I wonder if it can be used to meaty like those moves.
With Nutpunch only being +1 (?) and Say Cheese/Throwing Shades being +3/+4 respectively, I wonder if they could be used for frame traps on hit midscreen/the corner or just continue your pressure.
Both options are death on block but amp forceball can keep you safe and Johnny's strings are very hit-comfirmable
Despite all that said, it's a pretty wack variation overall.

 

[Wigy]

What a joke.
Condition the opponent to make mistakes?
What if you're playing 50% wonder geras or safe5050spamkang and you have 2 mistakes to do to die and he has to do 7?

Nobody wants Cage god tier here, but the obvious imbalance against other similar chars is horribly showing.

Abuse your pokes and grab A LOT

 

[Wigy]

Wondering... ANY reason to use Cage's D3 over D4?

More range I think. Keeps them closer too. Can't grab after a d4

 

[Wrath0594]

We all want to stay optimistic, but you have to provide a substantial reason to. “Conditioning” is universal.

That being said, here’s my contribution from messing around a bit. I think right now we’re better off ending combos in F4,4 rather than nutpunch. It gives more + frames and better oki into things like b3,4. Your only real option out of nutpunch is d3, which you could cancel into amplified forceball or flippy kicks for a gimmicky way to condition them to keep blocking after d3, then start cancelling into caged rage.

Found what seems to be a safe way to activate his chip dmg buff. Do whatever BnB into mb nutpunch, lets say f3,4,4 xx nutpunch amplify, run cancel 121 xx brass knuckles.

That combined with what Name .v.5.0 found with linking 1,2 xx caged rage which indeed trades with d1’s and beats everything else leads me to believe our main way to open people up is going to be through that and raw chip damage to force mistakes. With the brass knucles buff active, jump in 2, 121 xx amplified forceball does around 200 dmg in chip iirc. And level 3 caged rage is a 100 dmg unblockable that they have no way out of if you cancel into it after they block 1,2.

His BIGGEST weakness at the moment and the one we should be making NRS aware of isn’t nutpunch or even mids, but the hitbox issue. Under normal circumstances, we can make any string safe by cancelling into amped forceball which jails and is +3. However, certain characters like Cassie and Johnny can crouch block forceballs and they whiff, as well as his high starters. This is what needs more visibility.

 

[Johnny Based Cage]

I’m not saying he’s good, bad or otherwise just yet but I’m hoping this game’s meta won’t be revolving around krushing blows after all like I thought it could be if I plan on maining him bc holy fuck are his the hottest of garbage.

Who tf is opening a match OR punishing with a raw mb nut punch lolol. Who tf is getting hit by not only his parry three times but his fuckin extended mb parry at that the first two? Oh and then let’s whiff this forward advancing mid so they get hit by the thousand frame start-up high that follows lol. Jesus Christ.

 

[Name v.5.0]

Found what seems to be a safe way to activate his chip dmg buff. Do whatever BnB into mb nutpunch, lets say f3,4,4 xx nutpunch amplify, run cancel 121 xx brass knuckles.

That combined with what Name .v.5.0 found with linking 1,2 xx caged rage which indeed trades with d1’s and beats everything else leads me to believe our main way to open people up is going to be through that and raw chip damage to force mistakes. With the brass knucles buff active, jump in 2, 121 xx amplified forceball does around 200 dmg in chip iirc. And level 3 caged rage is a 100 dmg unblockable that they have no way out of if you cancel into it after they block 1,2.

Thank you. Someone else is seeing what I'm talking about.


Johnny is once again, an unconventional character in how he gets his damage. I hope others start trying this shit too so we can uncover more.

 

[Bigrig]

His younger personality WAS dan hibiki(not in the terrible fighter way, but thinking he was better than everyone else in a delusion of grandeur way.) but you see the older version that kicked shinnok around matured greatly beating everyone’s ass lol.

Difference is people laughed at Dan (cause he was shit) and Johnny laughed at EVERYONE ELSE (because he walked the walk and talked the talk) they just turnt the tables around to make him into a pathetic laughing stock instead of an ultimate giga chad that does what he wants when he wants, by making him this useless they've just turned him into a misogynistic loser and not a billionaire playboy, they're working to kill JC as a character for the sake of being PC and no one wants to admit it

Edit: his younger self (the show off) has never been seen as this much of a punching bag ever, can ya guess why? And I'm betting it ain't cause hes a shit fighter like dan, I say it's so feminists can enjoy the only strong white Male in the series get his shit kicked in.

 

[Wigy]

Crouch blocking his projectiles with some characters has to have been intentional, no way nrs is that incompetent that that slides under the radar even after all the mkx female hitbox nonsense

 

[Tundra81]

Some high level gameplay from Xinok

 

[Wrath0594]

Crouch blocking his projectiles with some characters has to have been intentional, no way nrs is that incompetent that that slides under the radar even after all the mkx female hitbox nonsense

They had the same issue in MkX where even some mids were getting ducked- last hit of 121 gets ducked by avg charachters btw. Mkx they patched it out a week in. Assuming the same will happen here. I doubt they intend character strength to be determined by hitbox size.

 

[Rodney Quillz]

Difference is people laughed at Dan (cause he was shit) and Johnny laughed at EVERYONE ELSE (because he walked the walk and talked the talk) they just turnt the tables around to make him into a pathetic laughing stock instead of an ultimate giga chad that does what he wants when he wants, by making him this useless they've just turned him into a misogynistic loser and not a billionaire playboy, they're working to kill JC as a character for the sake of being PC and no one wants to admit it

Edit: his younger self (the show off) has never been seen as this much of a punching bag ever, can ya guess why? And I'm betting it ain't cause hes a shit fighter like dan, I say it's so feminists can enjoy the only strong white Male in the series get his shit kicked in.

He was a jobber after his chapter in mk9 lol chill bro and then had a pretty decent showing in X, i do agree that they went a little too comedic with the character though, like the boom mic and pulling his groin on the shadow kick.

 

[ogrimtitan]

Difference is people laughed at Dan (cause he was shit) and Johnny laughed at EVERYONE ELSE (because he walked the walk and talked the talk) they just turnt the tables around to make him into a pathetic laughing stock instead of an ultimate giga chad that does what he wants when he wants, by making him this useless they've just turned him into a misogynistic loser and not a billionaire playboy, they're working to kill JC as a character for the sake of being PC and no one wants to admit it

Edit: his younger self (the show off) has never been seen as this much of a punching bag ever, can ya guess why? And I'm betting it ain't cause hes a shit fighter like dan, I say it's so feminists can enjoy the only strong white Male in the series get his shit kicked in.

Is this a serious post, or a 4chan parody. Do we still tolerate racism and misogyny around here? Yikes.

 

[Wrath0594]

Is this a serious post, or a 4chan parody. Do we still tolerate racism and misogyny around here? Yikes.

Is Johnny a mysogynist? Not sure how you think his post is supporting those things, he’s talking about a move to change Johnny’s character into something he isn’t as a way to virtue signal.

Haven’t played the story yet, but in X he was practically the main character, and the parent trope was subverted with Johnny being a supportive dad and Sonya being distant. If they’ve flanderized Johnny and undid his years of character deveopment, I think we’d all agree that would be depressing.

 

[Wrath0594]

So uh, tech discoveries, bois? Cuz the moar I explore other characters, the worse Johnny feels. Shao’s got an advancing mid that’s +6 and he has safe mixups, and like most of the cast- multiple useful krushing blows.

Idk, i guess JC’s projectile is pretty damn awesome, if we ignore the whiff issue. Past that uh.... 121 would be cool if the last hit didn’t whiff. No way to make them stand to block f3 chains if they’re decent... Pretty sure our boi’s garbage.


I’ve only fought scrubs, so I haven’t lost yet, but if I get someone who just mashes d1 and d4 not sure what imma do... If the game is supposed to be more footsies less mixups, fine, but our boi has short ass range too so...????

 

[skripee]

So uh, tech discoveries, bois? Cuz the moar I explore other characters, the worse Johnny feels. Shao’s got an advancing mid that’s +6 and he has safe mixups, and like most of the cast- multiple useful krushing blows.

Idk, i guess JC’s projectile is pretty damn awesome, if we ignore the whiff issue. Past that uh.... 121 would be cool if the last hit didn’t whiff. No way to make them stand to block f3 chains if they’re decent... Pretty sure our boi’s garbage.


I’ve only fought scrubs, so I haven’t lost yet, but if I get someone who just mashes d1 and d4 not sure what imma do... If the game is supposed to be more footsies less mixups, fine, but our boi has short ass range too so...????

I can definitely see what you mean, I guess they didn’t want to replicate MK9 Johnny who throws out f33 whenever he wanted. I don’t think he’s bad though. Even with f3 being a high, it has pretty darn good range for whiff punishing and baiting. Honestly I’m more concerned about how the nutpunch works, after you recover. Timing an attack on the first possible frame after nutpunching someone is very very difficult/awkward, so even being +5 it’s hard to make use of it