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MK11 Johnny Cage General Discussion

Wrath0594

Wrath0594

Steam profile: 76561198102032134
skripee said:
I can definitely see what you mean, I guess they didn’t want to replicate MK9 Johnny who throws out f33 whenever he wanted. I don’t think he’s bad though. Even with f3 being a high, it has pretty darn good range for whiff punishing and baiting. Honestly I’m more concerned about how the nutpunch works, after you recover. Timing an attack on the first possible frame after nutpunching someone is very very difficult/awkward, so even being +5 it’s hard to make use of it
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He’s easily worse than the majority of the cast. Once you’ve spent lab time with him, you can gauge his toolkit vs everyone elses and he doesn’t have a lot going for him. Objectively, comparing frame. Not saying F3 is useless, sayings it’s worse than what other characters have. And yeah. The +5 onlt guarantees you d1 or d3.

Not tryna be pesmistic, I’ve been trying to make him work, but there’s no denying he should have been on he day 1 buff list with Kitana and the others.

If they reworked his krushing blows, fixed his highs whiffing, fixed his projectiles whiffing, made nutpunch +10, and made his f3 a mid, I think he’d be ok.
 
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M.D.

M.D.

Spammer. Crouch walk hater.
People seem to think we just want free wins.

The main problem is the effort put in. It has to be equal from both players, that is ballance.

If we work our asses off with poke spam and one string into walkback repeat, hoping to catch 6-7 mistakes to win a round, while we dodge 50-50s, safe stances, safe dash punches fullscreen, uber zoning low projectiles arcing projectiles teleports mother of godports sand turrets etcetc etc, and after 2 max 3 mistakes we lose the round, it's just not fair.

You put in a lot of work while your opponent plays with an umbrella drink.

Not ok.
 
Wrath0594

Wrath0594

Steam profile: 76561198102032134
I disagree that it’s effort. He can be a hard character, it’s more the result. Your assessment of how a game goes with him is correct.

Johnny has no control over the outcome at a high level- it’s on his opponent to make mistakes. Johnny has absolutely no way to stop someone from crouching. They can crouch and low profile or blow up a jump in, one way to jail them. They can crouch f3. They can crouch forceballs. All you’re left with is f4,4, and b3,4. They’re safe, sure, but they crouch guard them, it’s their turn.

Now what? You play a monster defense and then you’re... Back to square one. Praying they don’t just crouch poke you to death.

It really feels like he was meant to have an overhead starter instead of a low, and they cut it out last second. He has all his familiar tools that incentivize the opponent to crouch, and play a risk game. Do they risk standing and eating frame traps with f3, jab strings, and amp forceball? Or crouch, avoid those, but risk a combo starter?
 
Wigy

Wigy

There it is...
Way way too early to say Anything really but if I was guna make a change I'd say fix hitboxes being derpy and make f4 a stagger. Then you won't have to blindly commit to giving up your turn just to stop people mashing.

I've found you really have to play neutral with his projectiles, get midrange and toss tonnes. Helps a lot
 
Rip Torn

Rip Torn

ALL I HAVE IS THE GREEN.
If you land a d4, you can jail them into a f3 with frame perfect timing. This is how you can set up his F34 pressure. Or be safe with f44. Or you can go into f4db4. When they start poking out of the db4, you can go back to f44 or try to bait a parry with f4db1.

B2 is also really good when used in the right situation. You can blow up a lot of pokes and advancing strings with it. It's a great whiff punisher.

Idk if he's bottom tier yet... it's really hard to say.
 
B

Bigrig

Noob
If
Wrath0594 said:
Is Johnny a mysogynist? Not sure how you think his post is supporting those things, he’s talking about a move to change Johnny’s character into something he isn’t as a way to virtue signal.

Haven’t played the story yet, but in X he was practically the main character, and the parent trope was subverted with Johnny being a supportive dad and Sonya being distant. If they’ve flanderized Johnny and undid his years of character deveopment, I think we’d all agree that would be depressing.
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If you finish his arcade ending you'll find that the reason he matured was because he saw himself as a loser dad too busy with his job and the game that came with it, meaning it wasn't the war in mk9 and losing all his friends that made him grow up, it was him being a bad parent, which was supposed to be Sonyas flaw but apparently not anymore.
 
chrisofrays

chrisofrays

Fish can hear you thinkin just before you sneeze
Wigy said:
Crouch blocking his projectiles with some characters has to have been intentional, no way nrs is that incompetent that that slides under the radar even after all the mkx female hitbox nonsense
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I remember there being alot of wonky hit box issues in MKX at launch. Hopefully we will see some fixes soon
 
Wrath0594

Wrath0594

Steam profile: 76561198102032134
Rip Torn said:
It's day 2 bro...
DAY 2.

Pointing out all his weaknesses will make him sound bad of course.
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Point out some positives we haven’t debunked then? What does the day matter when he has 2 mids and they’re both bad and slow? I could go on, but I don’t wna repeat the rest.
 
MrWarMachine

MrWarMachine

Jacqui/D'Vorah 2020
hey is anyone having trouble getting 244 (Komedy and Tragedy) to come out? I've hit the inputs and tried different timing and it doesn't seem to work? am i suffering from scrub thumbs or what?
 
M.D.

M.D.

Spammer. Crouch walk hater.
You have to hit the two 4s fast before any kick comes out at all, for it to work.
It's not a normal string because WHY WOULD IT BE NRS?
 
Rip Torn

Rip Torn

ALL I HAVE IS THE GREEN.
Wrath0594 said:
Point out some positives we haven’t debunked then? What does the day matter when he has 2 mids and they’re both bad and slow? I could go on, but I don’t wna repeat the rest.
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His mids are slow but you can think of his d3 and d4 as a mid, because they can't be ducked. Those lows also set up his actual mids and high strings.

He also has a very small duck blocking hurtbox, many highs don't touch him.

The day matters because we don't know anything right now. It's too early. Never in the history of fighting games has anybody been able to make an accurate tier list on day 2. Yeah, some of his tools are clearly lacking, but what if he has some hidden stupid tech that makes him top tier? There's no way anybody could predict that.
 
Rip Torn

Rip Torn

ALL I HAVE IS THE GREEN.
turntechcatfish said:
If the tech exists, then post it. I'm not gonna stick with a char that feels like a dead end bc theoretically someone could find something that makes him good, when other characters already seem obviously better.
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I'm not going to put all my eggs in the Cage basket, but I'm not going to write him off just yet either. The whole point is that it's waaay to early to come to any sort of conclusion.
 
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Bigrig

Noob
I dont get why people are defending this situation when other characters got needless buff like jades meterless pop up or kitana being day one buffed, who's to say they didn't have crazy tech?
Straight up JC is just lacking basic things every character in a fighting game should have(like an overhead) and not one of you has said otherwise.
 
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