MK11 Johnny Cage General Discussion

[thlityoursloat]

Yeah, I know. That's why I tested it. They worked very consistently on 13 characters.

Majority of the cast or half the cast.. that still means his options dwindle significantly against a considerable chunk of the roster.
Not to mention his other hitbox issues. Trying them out in the lab doesn't do it justice, you don't really feel it unless you're ingame.

 

[thlityoursloat]

Also it looked like a mid because it doesn't whiff against Geras or big hitbox characters. That matchup is in favor of Johnny.

That's just it. Johnny is fucking great when you play against a character that he works properly against, the f21 whiffing is just icing on the cake. The only buffs he really needs are KB buffs, at that point he'd be more than a solid MK11 character.

 

[M.D.]

Video says it all.

I'll just save it and constantly reply with it nonstop until people stop showing up spewing sewage that Cage is ok because blabla tournaments geras whatever

 

[SwiftEagle]

I went in the lab and tested the forceballs myself and they worked on half the cast. I gave the exact number. How is that being misleading? Saying he has whiffing issues on all but 6 characters is super misleading.

There are 9 females in the game. Force balls whiff against all of them. Every character in the game can neutral duck normal and amplified force balls. Johnny Cage (mirror match), Raiden, and sometimes Liu Kang can crouch block both normal and amplified force balls. Statistically, Johnny Cage isn't at full strength half the time. Also, consider how many times each character is used. Cassie, Sonya, and Cetrion are commonly used. On top of this, Cage doesn't have viable crushing blows. He misses out on an entire mechanic. Cage is a handicapped character.

 

[Rip Torn]

Here's the video.
Someone said it before, its not just the forceballs, a lot of his moves whiffs on the cast.

s2? Whiffs (counting, since the timing to input the move is different between a 244 on block vs a 244 whiffing)
124? Whiffs sometimes
F21? Whiffs
12? Whiffs
34? Whiffs
34u3? Whiffs
Caged Rage? Whiffs sometimes
Forceballs? Whiffs

And the list goes on.

A lot of this stuff isn't in the video at all. I'm not saying he doesn't have hurtbox whiffing issues anyway. I'm well aware that he's basically useless against HALF the cast. But in any matchup where he can do his b34, f4, or f344 into ex forceball, he does very well. He can do that to at least 12 characters. Against those other characters he's really handicapped and should probably not be used. So when someone says he can only work against 6 characters, I find that to be a bunch of BS.

 

[Wigy]

Make f2 a mid. Give him KBs. Make any of his abilities in either variation worth having. Fix forceballs.

Good to go.

 

[heildan]

A lot of this stuff isn't in the video at all. I'm not saying he doesn't have hurtbox whiffing issues anyway. I'm well aware that he's basically useless against HALF the cast. But in any matchup where he can do his b34, f4, or f344 into ex forceball, he does very well. He can do that to at least 12 characters. Against those other characters he's really handicapped and should probably not be used. So when someone says he can only work against 6 characters, I find that to be a bunch of BS.

It isn't there, but hey, I listed 'em for you, so what? It doesn't need to be in the video, you can test it yourself.

Anyway...
Man, why do you find it to be bullshit? "Bullshit" is a character not working properly or as intended.
I get what ya mean, but listen to me. When people said that he can only work against 6 characters it meant that he can use 100% of his playability against 'em, not only his tools. The whiffs he has on some moves, it takes always tools and options that he can do in a match. They're important, since he is a footsies and strings based character he can't go crazy and open people up like some of the other characters, specially top tiers.

So, as an example, let's say that only 4 of those moves whiffs against Shang Tsung. It means that Cage is not at its fullest and maybe he is working 70% as intended mechanically, therefore, part of his gameplay is denied before the action even starts just by that, not because Shang has counters to his tools that its player can use at will, which involves thinking and elaborating a gameplan. His tools need to be there working somehow, even if its not recommend for said matchup.

Another example. When the opponent blocks the last hit of the "34u3" string it leaves Johnny in a perfect spot for a "b34" option, but you can't use it properly since it whiffs in the marjority of the cast.

That said, using Cage against any of the other 18 kombatants is almost as the same as saying he won't be "fully" playable against them. I really don't know if that's the real number, but its half of the cast up anyway. It doesn't really matter at what percentage he isn't functioning either, 60%, 70% or 80%, as in some way he isn't working at all.

 

[M.D.]

A lot of this stuff isn't in the video at all. I'm not saying he doesn't have hurtbox whiffing issues anyway. I'm well aware that he's basically useless against HALF the cast. But in any matchup where he can do his b34, f4, or f344 into ex forceball, he does very well. He can do that to at least 12 characters. Against those other characters he's really handicapped and should probably not be used. So when someone says he can only work against 6 characters, I find that to be a bunch of BS.

Sorry I was wrong. Watched the video again. There are only 4 characters where everything works properly, not 6.

Geras, Jax, Kotal and Kung Lao are the only characters in the ENTIRE game where everything works AS IT SHOULD.

Stop insisting only on forceballs. Standing 1 is a key staple normal because it goes into his plus string. And it whiffs on 22 characters.

Forceball is +3 and f4 is 14 so it's just another guess, nothing guaranteed. So please stop bullshiting that that's all he needs to be viable.

And please stop the upplaying.

Cage is a character that is PLAYABLE only against 4 characters out of 26 in only ONE variation.

He is gimped in those matchups too as he has NO usable KBs.

Cage is a fail of a character which needs fixes to be playable, period.

This upplay crap and bullshit excuses that oooo look fireballs work here aah look it doesnt whiff on sunday until 13pm bla bla whatever has got to STOP. Period.

 

[Hawfy]

They hit pretty consistently on Baraka. If there is some fringe case where a string might whiff here or there, that doesn't make it a "bad hitbox" matchup. The main thing is if you can jail ex fireballs off b34, f4, f344. Also, 124 is important. Saying he has whiffing issues on 20 characters is misleading.

His stand 1 whiffs on the entire cast after a d1 on hit, even if they are stand blocking!

 

[SwiftEagle]

Yea twitch chat saying Johnny is amazing but it takes a high skillcap LOL

Kombat is a beast though. I think these plebs don't even realize how good this guy is. Kombat conditioned Grr so good it looked like f344 was a mid that was + on block. People always need to look at pro player mistakes. Grr got caught a lot by b34, and it wasn't even whiff punishing. Sometimes it was just on wake up without counter hit appearing. Wish I had that kind of conditioning game going for me

You have to keep conditioning guys with D4. That's really the only way to get F3 to work. I've been using the nutpunch after it a lot. Sometimes the better players respond with a full string after I use D4 instead of poking back. That's really what's fucking my matches up recently. There's really nothing you can do but block, then you're back to square 1. Good players are ready for F3; they just neutral duck. F4 is too slow to rely on though. If Cage's pokes weren't as good as they are then he would be almost unplayable.

 

[NewMK11Player]

Kombat League is a legit JOKE. I only play against 6 characters at the most, Erron/Scorpion/Subzero/Sonya/Geras/Jacqui

So when I do end up playing a decent Kollector/Kitana/Shao any of the other 19 characters I get boded because I dont the match up lol.

 

[Deleted member 35141]

So the kombat vs sylverrye showed me a few things

1. I need to work on fatal blow cancels
2. If Johnny had KBs kombat may have 3-0 the switch to baraka further proves that.
3. Johnnys flaws start to show when opponents start to learn his flaws and strings

In the end johnny can be strong but we'll see what NRS has in store (not holding my breath)

 

[M.D.]

In the end johnny can be strong when he doesn't whiff.

Which is very rare.

NRS will not touch a SINGLE hitbox.

 

[thlityoursloat]

lol at Kombat vs SF.
Going to JC was a horrible idea against Cassie. She absolutely manhandles him and dictates the whole round from start to finish. Honestly the only buff I'd like to see apart from viable KBs is a f4 buff, f3 being a high is fine especially considering how layered its mixups can be when shit don't whiff, but J's lack of a solid dependable mid seriously compromises its usefulness.

 

[Owerbart]

ok, what about if caged rage (which is unfortunately a pretty weak move) got shaven some frames? or even better, what if you could cancel Caged Rage same to Solomon Grundy's dash in IGAU 1?

 

[FoughtDragon01]

It really does warm my heart whenever I get Johnny Cage hate mail. Out of all the characters to get salty over....

Like, how do you even...?

 

[NewMK11Player]

There are 9 females in the game. Force balls whiff against all of them. Every character in the game can neutral duck normal and amplified force balls. Johnny Cage (mirror match), Raiden, and sometimes Liu Kang can crouch block both normal and amplified force balls. Statistically, Johnny Cage isn't at full strength half the time. Also, consider how many times each character is used. Cassie, Sonya, and Cetrion are commonly used. On top of this, Cage doesn't have viable crushing blows. He misses out on an entire mechanic. Cage is a handicapped character.

The reason why I stopped playing Johnny WAS BECAUSE OF THIS REASON!

Once I got to a high rank in Kombat League/ranked the only characters I vs'd was Sonya/Jacqui/Cassie/Scorp/Geras/Erron/Sub/Cent So youre telling me MY ENTIRE offensive setups now whiff on 50% of the ppl I face!!! LMAO nah im good! Im not going to punish myself for shit game design!

 

[FoughtDragon01]

I'm just waiting to see if the hitboxes get addressed before tackling KL. If I'm expected to take ranked seriously, it'd be nice if my character worked properly against the entire cast.

 

[NewMK11Player]

I'm just waiting to see if the hitboxes get addressed before tackling KL. If I'm expected to take ranked seriously, it'd be nice if my character worked properly against the entire cast.

KL right now is nothing but sweats, high pings, top tier and ALT accounts. I literally have no character knowledge on the rest of the 19 characters. Id advise people to stay away until they put in a search filter to filter out high pings because I've quit out of a lot of matches due to the ping IDC if im winning its a waste of my time.

 

[M.D.]

Everything said here was gold.

Clueless people come here and OMFGGGGGG CANT YOU SEE HE BEATS GERAS FREE and then proceed to pick 999943 cassies and 949439 skarlets and 9849848 cetrions and 4898320329 jaquis and 999999999999999999999999999999999999999999(9) sonyas.

No thanks, i'll stick to Kabal that has only mids, enjoy.

 

[Rodney Quillz]

Lmao, all the nrs shills in the ceo thread were calling us all crybabies because of kombat lol.

 

[K3M1K4l]

Do you guys think we will see something before EVO?

 

[Owerbart]

Do you guys think we will see something before EVO?

unfortunately i dont think so. That's why i'm not touching this game until a.patch appears

 

[heildan]

Lmao, all the nrs shills in the ceo thread were calling us all crybabies because of kombat lol.

I swear, these people... Kombat is a bloody beast and all, but even he knows that he can't use Johnny every match.
He didn't dare to, had to pick Geras/Counterpick all the way. Also, from 200 people there, Kombat was the only one playin' him.

 

[Rodney Quillz]

I swear, these people... Kombat is a bloody beast and all, but even he knows that he can't use Johnny every match.
He didn't dare to, had to pick Geras/Counterpick all the way. Also, from 200 people there, Kombat was the only one playin' him.

You’ll never be able to appeal to the “get gud” crowd in any game, they accept whatever they get and think it’s gold