MK11 Johnny Cage General Discussion

[Deleted member 35141]

Sick of this vague shit. We need to separate the thread. We'll have one for constructive discussion, and another that can act as a whiny echo chamber for comments like this. Should I make a list of characters who don't have a +5 restand combo ender? Or a list of characters who don't have an 8f, +17 on hit, long range d4? Maybe a list of characters without advancing normals? Or a list of characters with a projectile slower than 14 frames?

#JohnnyWorstCharacter
#JohnnyBottom5
Amirite?

Ahh lol read the rest of my posts before you pull the whiny bullshit, as I recall you have some negatives too so
# hypocrite
Amirite?

 

[Wrath0594]

Ahh lol read the rest of my posts before you pull the whiny bullshit, as I recall you have some negatives too so
# hypocrite
Amirite?

Here's a list of everyone who doesn't have a +5 restand: Liu Kang, Kung Lao, Baraka, Raiden, Cassie, Sonya, Kotal, Shao, Dvorah, Kitana, Jade, Frost, Sub Zero, Scorpion, Geras, Jax, Jacqui, Erron, Skarlet, Kollector, Kabal, Kano, Cetrion.

Here's a list of everyone who doesn't have any safe specials to cancel into: Liu Kang, Baraka, Raiden, Kotal, Shao, Dvorah, Kitana, Sub Zero, Scorpion, Kabal, Cetrion.

Here's a list of everyone with a worse d4 than Johnny:
Liu Kang, Kung Lao, Baraka, Raiden, Cassie, Sonya, Kotal, Shao, Dvorah, Kitana, Jade, Frost, Sub Zero, Scorpion, Geras, Jax, Jacqui, Erron, Skarlet, Kollector, Kabal, Kano, Cetrion, Noob Saibot.

Here's a list of everyone with a worse projectile than Johnny:
Liu Kang, Kung Lao, Baraka, Raiden, Cassie, Kotal, Shao, Dvorah, Kitana, Jade, Frost, Scorpion, Jax, Jacqui, Erron, Kollector, Kabal, Kano.

Here's a list of everyone with worse hit confirms, or worse combo damage on their hit confirms: Liu Kang, Kabal, Kano, Shao Kahn, Kotal, Dvorah, Kitana, Jade, Frost, Raiden, Kollector.

Wow this is sad as a discussion thread supposedly

 

[Deleted member 35141]

Sick of this absurd bullshit. We need to separate the thread. We'll have one for constructive discussion, and another that can act as a whiny echo chamber for comments like this.

Should I make a list of characters who don't have a +5 restand combo ender? Or a list of characters who don't have an 8f, +17 on hit, long range d4? Maybe a list of characters without advancing normals? Or a list of characters with a projectile slower than 14 frames? A list of everyone without a safe special to cancel into? I can keep going.

#JohnnyWorstCharacter
#JohnnyBottom5
Amirite?

To your other points
1.Johnny has the best d4 in the game

1. Most the characters I mentioned have forward advancing strings
2. Restand combo ender and the trade-off is mids, mix-ups and high damage other characters have
3. Projectile? Well you got me there.

Not you or anyone here is going to make me hate playing Johnny actually the opposite I love the character.
This is a forum BTW to discuss things so back off with the hostility

 

[xSkeletonSmasherx69]

Here's a list of everyone who doesn't have a +5 restand: Liu Kang, Kung Lao, Baraka, Raiden, Cassie, Sonya, Kotal, Shao, Dvorah, Kitana, Jade, Frost, Sub Zero, Scorpion, Geras, Jax, Jacqui, Erron, Skarlet, Kollector, Kabal, Kano, Cetrion.

Here's a list of everyone who doesn't have any safe specials to cancel into: Liu Kang, Baraka, Raiden, Kotal, Shao, Dvorah, Kitana, Sub Zero, Scorpion, Kabal, Cetrion.

Here's a list of everyone with a worse d4 than Johnny:
Liu Kang, Kung Lao, Baraka, Raiden, Cassie, Sonya, Kotal, Shao, Dvorah, Kitana, Jade, Frost, Sub Zero, Scorpion, Geras, Jax, Jacqui, Erron, Skarlet, Kollector, Kabal, Kano, Cetrion, Noob Saibot.

Here's a list of everyone with a worse projectile than Johnny:
Liu Kang, Kung Lao, Baraka, Raiden, Cassie, Kotal, Shao, Dvorah, Kitana, Jade, Frost, Scorpion, Jax, Jacqui, Erron, Kollector, Kabal, Kano.

Here's a list of everyone with worse hit confirms, or worse combo damage on their hit confirms: Liu Kang, Kabal, Kano, Shao Kahn, Kotal, Dvorah, Kitana, Jade, Frost, Raiden, Kollector.

Wow this is sad as a discussion thread supposedly

Bone Picker Baraka has a better restand I think. Other than that stay strong in your opinion. I think Johnny is fine except for some hitbox issues.

 

[Deleted member 35141]

Here's a list of everyone who doesn't have a +5 restand: Liu Kang, Kung Lao, Baraka, Raiden, Cassie, Sonya, Kotal, Shao, Dvorah, Kitana, Jade, Frost, Sub Zero, Scorpion, Geras, Jax, Jacqui, Erron, Skarlet, Kollector, Kabal, Kano, Cetrion.

Here's a list of everyone who doesn't have any safe specials to cancel into: Liu Kang, Baraka, Raiden, Kotal, Shao, Dvorah, Kitana, Sub Zero, Scorpion, Kabal, Cetrion.

Here's a list of everyone with a worse d4 than Johnny:
Liu Kang, Kung Lao, Baraka, Raiden, Cassie, Sonya, Kotal, Shao, Dvorah, Kitana, Jade, Frost, Sub Zero, Scorpion, Geras, Jax, Jacqui, Erron, Skarlet, Kollector, Kabal, Kano, Cetrion, Noob Saibot.

Here's a list of everyone with a worse projectile than Johnny:
Liu Kang, Kung Lao, Baraka, Raiden, Cassie, Kotal, Shao, Dvorah, Kitana, Jade, Frost, Scorpion, Jax, Jacqui, Erron, Kollector, Kabal, Kano.

Here's a list of everyone with worse hit confirms, or worse combo damage on their hit confirms: Liu Kang, Kabal, Kano, Shao Kahn, Kotal, Dvorah, Kitana, Jade, Frost, Raiden, Kollector.

Wow this is sad as a discussion thread supposedly

Just looking at your lists and looking at the very first characters I call bs

Edit- the fact is anytime anyone mentions a negative here you come to bash them and leads to no discussion. If you said but he does this great without the hostile remarks people may want to discuss with you but no it's I must pounce.

 

[Deleted member 35141]

Bone Picker Baraka has a better restand I think. Other than that stay strong in your opinion. I think Johnny is fine except for some hitbox issues.

This is the damn issue never said Johnny was bad not once, just mentioned mids that's all

 

[Name v.5.0]

We should honestly just stop the fucking discussion over whether he's bad or fine at this point. We get where everyone stands. It's just beating a dead horse at this point.

We now understand his toolset...It's probably time for a MU discussion.

 

[M.D.]

MU lol. That would bring up the same problems as people realize the limited/nonexistent toolset vs top tier matchups

 

[Wrath0594]

MU lol. That would bring up the same problems as people realize the limited/nonexistent toolset vs top tier matchups

Nah, I’ll start. Johnny’s definitely guna struggle into anyone with long range normals, regardless of their spot on the tier list. Skarlet is going to be problematic all around.

Frost is another one I see mentioned a lot, but after picking her up, I found out her b22 has a flawless block gap. They can cancel b2 into spin which is safe, but it keeps you MUCH closer. She still has some solid zoning tools, but no real mixups so as long you’re comfortable dashing and ducking, you can get in. Once you do, you can really abuse her since her d1 is 9 frames and her fastest mid is 16frames. B22 is her main way to keep you out, but if you FB it, the MU becomes much easier.

In light of the long range thing, I’m curious as to how the Kabal MU would go at a high level. Noob too.

 

[Javoo On Fire]

Nah, I’ll start. Johnny’s definitely guna struggle into anyone with long range normals, regardless of their spot on the tier list. Skarlet is going to be problematic all around.

Frost is another one I see mentioned a lot, but after picking her up, I found out her b22 has a flawless block gap. They can cancel b2 into spin which is safe, but it keeps you MUCH closer. She still has some solid zoning tools, but no real mixups so as long you’re comfortable dashing and ducking, you can get in. Once you do, you can really abuse her since her d1 is 9 frames and her fastest mid is 16frames. B22 is her main way to keep you out, but if you FB it, the MU becomes much easier.

In light of the long range thing, I’m curious as to how the Kabal MU would go at a high level. Noob too.

Hate fighting a good noob, I try to bait out teleports because his normal are godlike lol

 

[FoughtDragon01]

Nah, I’ll start. Johnny’s definitely guna struggle into anyone with long range normals, regardless of their spot on the tier list. Skarlet is going to be problematic all around.

Frost is another one I see mentioned a lot, but after picking her up, I found out her b22 has a flawless block gap. They can cancel b2 into spin which is safe, but it keeps you MUCH closer. She still has some solid zoning tools, but no real mixups so as long you’re comfortable dashing and ducking, you can get in. Once you do, you can really abuse her since her d1 is 9 frames and her fastest mid is 16frames. B22 is her main way to keep you out, but if you FB it, the MU becomes much easier.

In light of the long range thing, I’m curious as to how the Kabal MU would go at a high level. Noob too.

I'll have to fight a good Kabal again to refresh my memory, but it felt like I was able to out zone him at full screen. Even when they try to jump for his air projectiles, the force ball would typically hit them mid jump.

It's once he gets to mid distance that things feel rough for me. His staggers are no joke, and I'm pretty sure his mids are faster with similar range to our buttons. Idk, I wouldn't call it a blowout, but I feel like Kabal has the edge since he has access to more mix ups on top of decent ranged normals.

 

[Owerbart]

so there aren't any tournament legal versions with the Double ability? I thought setups with the double could be fun

 

[lionheart21]

so there aren't any tournament legal versions with the Double ability? I thought setups with the double could be fun

As of right now, there isn't.

 

[Chad Ironchest]

I definitely agree that constant Cage bashing adds nothing new or interesting that we haven't mentioned in the first couple of days. We all know Johnny's issues, and constantly complaining, or comparing him to other characters does nothing. I agree a good new direction direction would be to discuss matchups. I just hope that it doesn't devolve into "This character has this tool so Cage auto loses 10-0"

I'd much rather have people talking about what Cage's best options are in a bad matchup instead

 

[Rodney Quillz]

Nah, I’ll start. Johnny’s definitely guna struggle into anyone with long range normals, regardless of their spot on the tier list. Skarlet is going to be problematic all around.

Frost is another one I see mentioned a lot, but after picking her up, I found out her b22 has a flawless block gap. They can cancel b2 into spin which is safe, but it keeps you MUCH closer. She still has some solid zoning tools, but no real mixups so as long you’re comfortable dashing and ducking, you can get in. Once you do, you can really abuse her since her d1 is 9 frames and her fastest mid is 16frames. B22 is her main way to keep you out, but if you FB it, the MU becomes much easier.

In light of the long range thing, I’m curious as to how the Kabal MU would go at a high level. Noob too.

Noobs d4 rapes us, it pushes us back on block so we can’t counter poke but we are still in range to get d4ed again, literally have a noob that keeps me out by mashing that move

 

[NewMK11Player]

I need to learn to not get discouraged when I lose, man I get so pissed.

 

[Zubro]

Maybe I’m in the minority but I don’t think cage needs an overhead or another mid. The more I play him the more I think his d4 is his best footsy tool. Once you get them blocking with f344 you can start to stagger with f3 and even get a bit adventurous with b34 or even j2.

 

[ismael4790]

It's sad that Show Stopper has problems with the camera (like b34 not linking into it on hit), because the variation has a nice design, and also gives him grounded combos which is something good in this game and gives a purpose to the variation. Also, the sunglasses are a bit weird to be a mid and whiff a lot when they shouldn't. They really need to look into this variation, seems rushed.

I think f3 being a mid might be too much. Maybe f2, since at least the full string f212 has a gap unlike f344. His krushing blows are definitely not on par with the ones other characters have. For the most part I think Shock Jock is fine and will be better as soon as some of the broken stuff out there gets fixed.
Cage design is not what I expected, to be honest, but he's not bad.

Also...Nrs, add "Pissed Off" move to the next variation you put in the game for him. That move is the successor of the speedbag.

 

[ReoSpeedwagon]

“When the opponent expands, I contract. When he contracts, I expand. And, when there is an opportunity, I do not hit - the nutsack gets hit all by itself.” -Johnny Cage

 

[SwiftEagle]

So a cassie player which pretty much 10-0s us with unpunishable low gunshot and her elbow that outranges and outprioritzes every move in the movelist, along with her d3 stuffing anything we try to do when she's even slightly minus, said Cage is top tier.

Nuff.

Yup. Did I mention that he hit me with 3 or 4 fatal blows?

Maybe I’m in the minority but I don’t think cage needs an overhead or another mid. The more I play him the more I think his d4 is his best footsy tool. Once you get them blocking with f344 you can start to stagger with f3 and even get a bit adventurous with b34 or even j2.

Sorry, but F3 has to be a mid. Of all things to fix with Cage, that's the most important.

 

[Name v.5.0]

I'll have to fight a good Kabal again to refresh my memory, but it felt like I was able to out zone him at full screen. Even when they try to jump for his air projectiles, the force ball would typically hit them mid jump.

It's once he gets to mid distance that things feel rough for me. His staggers are no joke, and I'm pretty sure his mids are faster with similar range to our buttons. Idk, I wouldn't call it a blowout, but I feel like Kabal has the edge since he has access to more mix ups on top of decent ranged normals.

His mids are so good that they seems to always beat b3. I always feel like I should go under but I don’t. I think the b3 hurt box is fucking huge.

This is also why I feel I have problems with Shao Khan and Skarlet. B3 is shit against them, leaving us with only f3 and f4 which aren’t as effective.

Seems like Johnny is good at shit, but there’s others who do what he does better and those characters are strong counters to him.

 

[Wrath0594]

His mids are so good that they seems to always beat b3. I always feel like I should go under but I don’t. I think the b3 hurt box is fucking huge.

This is also why I feel I have problems with Shao Khan and Skarlet. B3 is shit against them, leaving us with only f3 and f4 which aren’t as effective.

Seems like Johnny is good at shit, but there’s others who do what he does better and those characters are strong counters to him.

I have replays vs a few good Shao’s, but the issue is that I knew the Shao counterplay and they didn’t know the JC counterplay. So they’re not indicative of high level, but even so it’s not a matchup that should give you trouble.

Shao has 2 tools. F2 which you can duck and punish, and shoulder charge which you can block and punish. His f4 has some utilitity, and... That’s it. He’s slow. His projetile is trash, all his specials are in fact. Up hammer toss has a gap you can d2 in. He should be free af.

Skarlet is a different story, one I can buy. But not Shao. I feel like it’d have to be a lot of misplay. Did yall see that Shao that took tourney vs Sub Zero? Same thing. The SZ was mashing in the middle of strings and on -frames and shit. It was crazy.

 

[Name v.5.0]

I have replays vs a few good Shao’s, but the issue is that I knew the Shao counterplay and they didn’t. So they’re not indicative of high level, but even so it’s not a matchup that should give you trouble.

Shao has 2 tools. F2 which you can duck and punish, and shoulder charge which you can block and punish. His f4 has some utilitity, and... That’s it. He’s slow. His projetile is trash, all his specials are in fact. Up hammer toss has a gap you can d2 in. He should be free af.

Skarlet is a different story, one I can buy. But not Shao. I feel like it’d have to be a lot of misplay. Did yall see that Shao that took tourney vs Sub Zero? Same thing. The SZ was mashing in the middle of strings and on -frames and shit. It was crazy.

I’ve labbed the fuck out of Shao. My problem is more the guessing game in the neutral. For whatever reason, every time I go to make a move he uses F2 and hits me. Bad luck I suppose. I will get better, I just need more practice against a good Shao...which will never happen. Haha.

I’ve been beating Skarlets by using more jump in kicks. Once knocked down she is powerless. Can still be a rough matchup when she has life lead.

 

[Wrath0594]

I’ve labbed the fuck out of Shao. My problem is more the guessing game in the neutral. For whatever reason, every time I go to make a move he uses F2 and hits me. Bad luck I suppose. I will get better, I just need more practice against a good Shao...which will never happen. Haha.

I’ve been beating Skarlets by using more jump in kicks. Once knocked down she is powerless. Can still be a rough matchup when she has life lead.

Are you on PC by chance? Or are any of you guys? Would love to play some of yall.

 

[Name v.5.0]

Are you on PC by chance? Or are any of you guys? Would love to play some of yall.

PS4, sorry...