MK11 Johnny Cage General Discussion

[MrMaxAwesome]

imo, Johnny is the worst good character, if that makes any sense.
Many many faults on paper and in practice but even with the limited kit available he's definitely not trash.

 

[Rip Torn]

The ender is F4 bd3, not f3. You might find using s2 instead of b2 easier. The trick is to cancel the dash into b2 very early, then dash f4 for the ender.

Only other thing you can do if neither b2 or s2 is consistent for you is cut it out entirely and just go straight into F4 db3 after the amp.

If you do a longer dash into b2, you don't have to dash into f4. I think this is the most consistent method for me.

 

[Shirakani]

Anyone know what move allows you to hit Throw Shades after for the KB? I can't get it to hit off anything that launches...

 

[Rip Torn]

Anyone know what move allows you to hit Throw Shades after for the KB? I can't get it to hit off anything that launches...

Try f21~FB dash cancel 12~shades

 

[Shirakani]

Try f21~FB dash cancel 12~shades

Yeah I'm doing b34 FBDC f344 shades and that works... Just wondering if anything longer is possible.

 

[NewMK11Player]

Cage's second variation and his crushing blows need to be completely reworked. His F344 and his F21 strings need to be changed to MID attacks. I have almost 400 matches with Cage, and while I win more than I lose, he's unplayable at a high level. You can only "condition" somebody so much with F4 until they eventually catch on. Anybody who regularly spams D1 wins.

What are your F4 setups?

 

[NewMK11Player]

The ender is F4 bd3, not f3. You might find using s2 instead of b2 easier. The trick is to cancel the dash into b2 very early, then dash f4 for the ender.

Only other thing you can do if neither b2 or s2 is consistent for you is cut it out entirely and just go straight into F4 db3 after the amp.

Right now I just skip the b2 or s2, im just very inconsistent with it. And go straight into f4 db3 then mixup

 

[Javoo On Fire]

why is it so hard to tap 244 correctly into nut punch going from 2 to 4 feels so awkward for me the slower start up 344 feels way easier to cancel nut punch into. One extra 4 and the nut punch cancel won't comeout

 

[Wrath0594]

Right now I just skip the b2 or s2, im just very inconsistent with it. And go straight into f4 db3 then mixup

Just something you gotta grind out in practice, my friend. It’s not too hard a link. Told you my method, where I use 2 dash cancels. Just keep trying till you’ve got somethn that works.

 

[NewMK11Player]

The ender is F4 bd3, not f3. You might find using s2 instead of b2 easier. The trick is to cancel the dash into b2 very early, then dash f4 for the ender.

Only other thing you can do if neither b2 or s2 is consistent for you is cut it out entirely and just go straight into F4 db3 after the amp.

Been in the lab for a couple of hours, working on some stuff and got this working. its actually alot easier after the B2 because everything falls into the place nicely for the NP, whereas if you skip the b2 you have to time it just before they fall to the floor. takes some practice like you said but rewarding. glad i know this now. will be my go to bnb for mixups

 

[Javoo On Fire]

Been in the lab for a couple of hours, working on some stuff and got this working. its actually alot easier after the B2 because everything falls into the place nicely for the NP, whereas if you skip the b2 you have to time it just before they fall to the floor. takes some practice like you said but rewarding. glad i know this now. will be my go to bnb for mixups

good work lol, realized combos with johnny are harder than some of the cast maybe even most because of all the dashes and dash cancels,but it will pay off if their is any dlc characters that need dash cancels too

 

[ReoSpeedwagon]

how often do you guys use 124 and 34u3 for the plus frames? Rn It's something I don't remember to use very often. Also for follow up it's pretty much gonna have to be f4 something right?

 

[Wrath0594]

how often do you guys use 124 and 34u3 for the plus frames? Rn It's something I don't remember to use very often. Also for follow up it's pretty much gonna have to be f4 something right?

I never use f344u3. It gets beaten out by a lot, or the wonky hitboxes push them out of range so the u3 doesn’t connect on block. 124 I like. I try to use it anytime I jail them with d1, but that’s so wonky rn it’s inconsistent. Saw a vid showing the reason is d1 universally makes people duck on hit which fucks up the jail.

If I need something fast I like 124 and f2. Lotta times if I backdash, and they whiff a string, it’ll still beat my f4, so those options are more reliable. I’m trying to force myself to use b2 more, since Johnny pulls his hurtbox back and only extends his leg it seems, but it’s so hard to get anything from it other than f44.

 

[ReoSpeedwagon]

Does 1 need to be fixed? It seems to whiff 2/3 of the time against crouch blockers not sure if thats supposed to happen. It's hard to trust it rn. I really don't know when it's a good time to back dash without getting hit for it.

 

[DragonofDadashov24]

I’ve just played a set against Geras and it was my first online battle as Johnny. Is it me or that match up sucks?

 

[NewMK11Player]

I never use f344u3. It gets beaten out by a lot, or the wonky hitboxes push them out of range so the u3 doesn’t connect on block. 124 I like. I try to use it anytime I jail them with d1, but that’s so wonky rn it’s inconsistent. Saw a vid showing the reason is d1 universally makes people duck on hit which fucks up the jail.

If I need something fast I like 124 and f2. Lotta times if I backdash, and they whiff a string, it’ll still beat my f4, so those options are more reliable. I’m trying to force myself to use b2 more, since Johnny pulls his hurtbox back and only extends his leg it seems, but it’s so hard to get anything from it other than f44.

Ive been using B2 only when they jump. once i catch them with b2, i dash cancel, do another b2 then f4 nutpunch. Only real use I see from it so far, i rarely ever use it for neutral game, is it good for that?

 

[SwiftEagle]

What are your F4 setups?

You can sort of play Cage like you would in MKX. Instead of F3 in MKX, you're using F4. You throw it out 2 or 3 times on its own, then use Cage Rage, quickly poke, or 4 (F44) behind it. You also have to use grabs. You're basically setting up your opponent for F344 and B34 into an amplified nutpunch. Example: F4...F4,CR, D4...F4...F4...F344.
Once you're landing F3, you can start using it the same as F4, instead you have 44 behind it, or grabs.
As others here have said though, F4 is way too slow, and F3 whiffs the majority of the time. If you're playing against a poke spammer who doesn't respect your pressure, there's literally no way to open him up. Your only option is to keep spacing and hope he makes a mistake. Playing as Cage right now is more effort than its worth.
I actually beat a Geras player using the strategy above in a ranked set. I got matched up with him immediately after, where I got destroyed. All he did was mash D1. It didn't matter that I continued to land F4. He wasn't even blocking it-he just kept mashing D1.

 

[M.D.]

These strategies here sound great on paper but....

After unlocking everything for Cage it was time to take him online.

After a shower of walkback cassie low shot spam into insta mid safe into 50-50s of d1 throws, a plethora of kabals walkback b12 x A BAZILLION TIMES into NDC 50-50s, kabal jumpin 2s that can't be anti aired, b1 that reaches across the galaxy, can't be d3 d4ed, MOTHER OF GGGGGGGGGOD.........

b3 is too slow to get out, f4 doesn't reach if the opponent just holds walk back, you can't jump, you can't zone, parry does not activate fast enough to counter their fast mids, it's horrible, HORRIBLE.

It's throw spam city, j4 jail throw, f3 throw after d4, and d4, d4, d4, d4...

I knew he had it hard but it only now hit me first hand. You work so hard to get in for what? d4 d4 d4 d4 d4 d4. Because up close, good luck doing anything else against b1 f3 11 frame 9 frame midm idm idmidmidmiddmid AHHH AHAHHAHHAH BLBULBULUBLUBLUBLUBLUBLUBlxcujlcjvbioxcvijnoxicvjnoxicvjoik64746&$^%&#%^U#@%^&%#6

 

[Javoo On Fire]

theres not a thing you can do if someone is just spamming d1 lol

 

[kevkopdx]

These strategies here sound great on paper but....

After unlocking everything for Cage it was time to take him online.

After a shower of walkback cassie low shot spam into insta mid safe into 50-50s of d1 throws, a plethora of kabals walkback b12 x A BAZILLION TIMES into NDC 50-50s, kabal jumpin 2s that can't be anti aired, b1 that reaches across the galaxy, can't be d3 d4ed, MOTHER OF GGGGGGGGGOD.........

b3 is too slow to get out, f4 doesn't reach if the opponent just holds walk back, you can't jump, you can't zone, parry does not activate fast enough to counter their fast mids, it's horrible, HORRIBLE.

It's throw spam city, j4 jail throw, f3 throw after d4, and d4, d4, d4, d4...

I knew he had it hard but it only now hit me first hand. You work so hard to get in for what? d4 d4 d4 d4 d4 d4. Because up close, good luck doing anything else against b1 f3 11 frame 9 frame midm idm idmidmidmiddmid AHHH AHAHHAHHAH BLBULBULUBLUBLUBLUBLUBLUBlxcujlcjvbioxcvijnoxicvjnoxicvjoik64746&$^%&#%^U#@%^&%#6

Haha ya it’s pretty bad.. I played a noob that turtled the whole set, I kept rematching to try to figure something out... noob’s d2 basically kills anything Johnny can do, it’s crazy good. Trying to open someone up is pretty damn hard if they know what they’re doing. It’s just endlessly dashing into range trying to bait something out. And throwing.

 

[Javoo On Fire]

how do you deal with constant d1 pokes walk back and try and whiff punish? I'm about to try and go to the lab and see if I can find a way to flawless block punish all the mashing going on.

 

[M.D.]

d4 on hit jails into f3, thats the only thing that works, and most of them block the f3 waiting for the kicks so you can throw.

That's literally the only thing that actually got me winning some matches lol

 

[Javoo On Fire]

d4 on hit jails into f3, thats the only thing that works, and most of them block the f3 waiting for the kicks so you can throw.

That's literally the only thing that actually got me winning some matches lol

does it not whiff if they are just crouching not blocking?

 

[NewMK11Player]

I tried Jax, and my god.. hes so much better and by that I mean there is less thinking involved. Its like bringing a loaded shotgun into battle (Jax) rather than a pencil (Johnny)

If you bring the current mentality of Johnny with his mixups and apply it with like Jax, you'll see more success with his overhead/low game people just cant crouch block the whole game.

 

[M.D.]

It doesn't whiff d4 is +17 on hit so you have time to do the f3 before they get control back to their character.

Also, yes, after you play Johnny and then put your hands on someone with a 9 frame mid or a mixup, it's high heaven.

I also play Kabal, and whenever I switch I feel like I have superpowers, what is this sorcery half screen 11 frame mids into 50-50s wtf