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MK11 Johnny Cage General Discussion

Vslayer

Vslayer

Juiced Moose On The Loose
Lead Moderator
Played him last night against some friends and @lionheart21, and it's definitely a fun variation. He feels like Cassie, minus the F4 pressure on knockdown. Blockstring? No problem, Rising Star. Wanna piss them off? D4 Rising Star.

If you time it right, you can hit Liu full screen and block his fireball. I think it's going to help in a lot of annoying MUs. I like that you can now play lame with him, to frustrate them into making mistakes you can easily punish.

That's my kinda mind game.
 
Name v.5.0

Name v.5.0

Iowa's Finest.
Just thinking out loud here...I think if NRS want's Shock Jock to actually be played at this point, they're going to need to either vastly speed up the start up on Brass Knuckles, or extend the duration.

If you think about what sets the variations apart in a meaningful way...

Showstopper gets Camera(unbreakable damage) and Shades(huge damage)

Outtake gets Forceballs(zoning and neutral control)

Shock Jock....Gee...hmmmm...Caged Rage(unblockable for 17%) and what? Mime Time? it's ok, but it's super situational and dangerous. Brass Knuckles actually compliments the Shock Jock build greatly if you're willing to use Caged Rage. You just can't use it. Plus frames + multi hit strings + Caged Rage + good forceballs + Brass Knuckles = a scary JC up close.

Seriously, if you havent tested what Brass Knuckles can do on block, go do it. Remember how some of us are saying you end up limited to D4 and throws because of turtling? Imagine not giving a fuck because you're melting them on chip.

To be honest, the more I think about Shock Jock, the more I think the design intention was to fuck turtling opponents. You get double chip, and an unblockable, and a parry when for when your opponent figures out he has to poke or do something or he'll die from chip.

Am I wrong? Probably a pipe dream, but I hope NRS makes a change to Brass Knuckles.
 
R

Rodney Quillz

Noob
Name v.5.0 said:
Just thinking out loud here...I think if NRS want's Shock Jock to actually be played at this point, they're going to need to either vastly speed up the start up on Brass Knuckles, or extend the duration.

If you think about what sets the variations apart in a meaningful way...

Showstopper gets Camera(unbreakable damage) and Shades(huge damage)

Outtake gets Forceballs(zoning and neutral control)

Shock Jock....Gee...hmmmm...Caged Rage(unblockable for 17%) and what? Mime Time? it's ok, but it's super situational and dangerous. Brass Knuckles actually compliments the Shock Jock build greatly if you're willing to use Caged Rage. You just can't use it. Plus frames + multi hit strings + Caged Rage + good forceballs + Brass Knuckles = a scary JC up close.

Seriously, if you havent tested what Brass Knuckles can do on block, go do it. Remember how some of us are saying you end up limited to D4 and throws because of turtling? Imagine not giving a fuck because you're melting them on chip.

To be honest, the more I think about Shock Jock, the more I think the design intention was to fuck turtling opponents. You get double chip, and an unblockable, and a parry when for when your opponent figures out he has to poke or do something or he'll die from chip.

Am I wrong? Probably a pipe dream, but I hope NRS makes a change to Brass Knuckles.
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Jock to me is how Johnny is supposed to play, the other variations are nice but jock IS Johnny, it should be the rushdown/pressure variation in my opinion, caged rage and brass knucks need changes for sure.
 
T

Tundra81

Noob
Name v.5.0 said:
Just thinking out loud here...I think if NRS want's Shock Jock to actually be played at this point, they're going to need to either vastly speed up the start up on Brass Knuckles, or extend the duration.

If you think about what sets the variations apart in a meaningful way...

Showstopper gets Camera(unbreakable damage) and Shades(huge damage)

Outtake gets Forceballs(zoning and neutral control)

Shock Jock....Gee...hmmmm...Caged Rage(unblockable for 17%) and what? Mime Time? it's ok, but it's super situational and dangerous. Brass Knuckles actually compliments the Shock Jock build greatly if you're willing to use Caged Rage. You just can't use it. Plus frames + multi hit strings + Caged Rage + good forceballs + Brass Knuckles = a scary JC up close.

Seriously, if you havent tested what Brass Knuckles can do on block, go do it. Remember how some of us are saying you end up limited to D4 and throws because of turtling? Imagine not giving a fuck because you're melting them on chip.

To be honest, the more I think about Shock Jock, the more I think the design intention was to fuck turtling opponents. You get double chip, and an unblockable, and a parry when for when your opponent figures out he has to poke or do something or he'll die from chip.

Am I wrong? Probably a pipe dream, but I hope NRS makes a change to Brass Knuckles.
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Not wrong at all. Not that I want this game to be anything like MKX but Fist Bump post patch was pretty fucking awesome. I wouldn't necessarily need an amplify version this time around but definitely a faster start up and possibly a higher damaging throw when activated would make me pick the Jock back up real quick. Now I just don't see a reason to play this variation over the other 2 and it makes me sad.
 
heildan

heildan

NANI?!
Tundra81 said:
Not wrong at all. Not that I want this game to be anything like MKX but Fist Bump post patch was pretty fucking awesome. I wouldn't necessarily need an amplify version this time around but definitely a faster start up and possibly a higher damaging throw when activated would make me pick the Jock back up real quick. Now I just don't see a reason to play this variation over the other 2 and it makes me sad.
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Between less startup vs longer buff time, I would prefer the later.
Caged Rage needs a bit less startup, and maybe reduce its reach as a side nerf, I dunno.
Thinking about it, as a design preference, they could've put a KB in it instead of Mime Time, but that's not happening.
Mime time KB req could be changed for when you hit it against wake ups.

My 2 cents.
 
T

Tundra81

Noob
heildan said:
Between less startup vs longer buff time, I would prefer the later.
Caged Rage needs a bit less startup, and maybe reduce its reach as a side nerf, I dunno.
Thinking about it, as a design preference, they could've put a KB in it instead of Mime Time, but that's not happening.
Mime time KB req could be changed for when you hit it against wake ups.

My 2 cents.
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Searing Rage I just use Showstopper, no way we're zoning Scorpion out. Sonya....lol, when you figure out that MU let ME know.

edit LMAO I quoted the wrong person @Vslayer
 
Name v.5.0

Name v.5.0

Iowa's Finest.
heildan said:
Between less startup vs longer buff time, I would prefer the later.
Caged Rage needs a bit less startup, and maybe reduce its reach as a side nerf, I dunno.
Thinking about it, as a design preference, they could've put a KB in it instead of Mime Time, but that's not happening.
Mime time KB req could be changed for when you hit it against wake ups.

My 2 cents.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure CR needs touched whatsoever. Think about how many 12s you land on block in a match...12~CR on level 2 and 3 is next to impossible to poke. I use it constantly and land a level 3 twice a game in the majority of the games I play. That's 34% unblockable. If it gets any easier, it might become obscene.

Just wanted to add in....all the chip from doing a normal into Caged Rage and then hitting that unblockable twice has to put you around 45-50%. Not bad.
 
M.D.

M.D.

Spammer. Crouch walk hater.
Shock Jock is ok when the character works fully. Dropping the ender for brass knuckles and then doing 20% chip with amplified forceballs is quite something.

When you play SJ against female hitbox, you should just char select swap.
 
Name v.5.0

Name v.5.0

Iowa's Finest.
M.D. said:
Shock Jock is ok when the character works fully. Dropping the ender for brass knuckles and then doing 20% chip with amplified forceballs is quite something.

When you play SJ against female hitbox, you should just char select swap.
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Even without forceballs you can put in work

But like you said, Dropping a combo to activate is worthless. Might as well have just finished the combo. Even if you do get it off, there's that post activation time where you and your opponent are kind of dancing int he neutral to see who will take a swing. It just wears off and was completely worthless...

So in all honesty, it probably needs both faster start up and longer duration.
 
Espio

Espio

Kokomo
Mikemetroid said:
HOld on lol I may of blown my load too early... I think Outtake actually is @Braindead

mbRS saves your ass and can condition your opponent like nothing ive used before... this is dumb
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Wouldn't be the first time daddy lul.

This variation of Cage is fun, I just like that he finally has a tool that allows one of his fastest/best mids to be potent and not leave him caught in pressure every single time you block it. The zoning is nice as hell too. He can play super low risk if he manages his tools properly.
 
Name v.5.0

Name v.5.0

Iowa's Finest.
After playing against, and labbing the Jade and Kitana(highborn) MUs, I’m ready to say they are stil bad MUs against Outtake.

You can’t zone them, and fucking rising star whiffs like crazy. I’ve had both the up and down parts of RS whiff. What in the fuck. Seriously...

Edit: I’m unable to recreate the whiff of both up and down RS in training. Can someone plz tell me what the fucking deal is? It happened in a match against high born Kitana. I can’t fucking figure out how it happened.
 
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Error404

Error404

Noob
Frank Reed said:
I think it is good but why do you think it is broken?
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Because it's 9 frames and a mid . From full screen you have to block atleast 5 , before being close enough to duck them. You can't win the trade . If you don't have a tp you basicly have to take ~8 % every time you're full screen.
 
D

Deleted member 35141

Guest
Name v.5.0 said:
After playing against, and labbing the Jade and Kitana(highborn) MUs, I’m ready to say they are stil bad MUs against Outtake.

You can’t zone them, and fucking rising star whiffs like crazy. I’ve had both the up and down parts of RS whiff. What in the fuck. Seriously...

Edit: I’m unable to recreate the whiff of both up and down RS in training. Can someone plz tell me what the fucking deal is? It happened in a match against high born Kitana. I can’t fucking figure out how it happened.
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Damn I was hoping the high forceballs would help against that BS like jade jump back glaives. I happy to atleast boot this game up tomorrow after taking a long much needed break.

This new variation kind of reminds me of ryu and Ken archetypes am I at all right in that assessment?
 
M.D.

M.D.

Spammer. Crouch walk hater.
Error404 said:
Because it's 9 frames and a mid . From full screen you have to block atleast 5 , before being close enough to duck them. You can't win the trade . If you don't have a tp you basicly have to take ~8 % every time you're full screen.
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Unless you're female, then it just whiffs all the time except max full screen.

So it's the same story as the other forceballs.
 
T

Tundra81

Noob
Still don't really see a reason to pick Outtake over Showstopper. Not saying Outtake is bad by any means because it's really solid, you just can't contest with the unbreakable damage that Showstopper gets you. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think Outtake covers his bad MU's, am I wrong? Do I just need to "git gud"? Good players are already respecting D1 RS, which isfine because it just resets the neutral. Again not saying Outtake is buns by any means I just think Showstopper is too good.
 
Vslayer

Vslayer

Juiced Moose On The Loose
Lead Moderator
Tundra81 said:
Still don't really see a reason to pick Outtake over Showstopper. Not saying Outtake is bad by any means because it's really solid, you just can't contest with the unbreakable damage that Showstopper gets you. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think Outtake covers his bad MU's, am I wrong? Do I just need to "git gud"? Good players are already respecting D1 RS, which isfine because it just resets the neutral. Again not saying Outtake is buns by any means I just think Showstopper is too good.
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I was able to out zone a Cetrion with Outtake, I think that's the only good reason to pick it since every character but Johnny and Jacqui seem to have a good projectile in this damn game. Shock Jock is now obsolete tho since Outtake has safe pressure on block with Rising Star.

Unbreakable restands + good damage is hard to beat, I guess it also depends on people's playstyle. Stick with what feels better for you.
 
T

Tundra81

Noob
Vslayer said:
I was able to out zone a Cetrion with Outtake, I think that's the only good reason to pick it since every character but Johnny and Jacqui seem to have a good projectile in this damn game. Shock Jock is now obsolete tho since Outtake has safe pressure on block with Rising Star.

Unbreakable restands + good damage is hard to beat, I guess it also depends on people's playstyle. Stick with what feels better for you.
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I think I just need to figure out how to balance both variations because I want to play Outtake. I think what I'm running into is if I find myself struggling in a MU with Outtake I immediately run to Showstopper. I think I need to just tough it out come up with a solid game plan with Outtake because right now I feel a little lost TBH. I can't seem to find that right balance of when to zone and when to go in.
 
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