MK11 female designs are... extremely underwhelming

[Eldriken]

I reported every comment that led this discussion south before my replies came in. I was simply replying to a common theme of, “wanting women to have varied costumes means you want to be able to masturbate to fiction, therefore youre a lesser human.” Also, addressing, “men without shirts, even some with short pants, with unrealistic bf% for the everyman, insane muscle mass, that crotch buldge we all wish we had, devilishly handsome facial features, with deep smooth vocals and a mean streak a mile wide is not the same as women with cute tops, firm breasts, round rear, flat stomachs, beautiful faces, sulty voice, and kickass combat skills from training and dedication.” Like tell me why. Neither has to be sexual, but both can be and they are the same. You just dont see men and women as equals, thats all.

Also, costume variety for Sub-Zero, Cassie, Jade, Skarlet, Jacqui, Sonya, Cetrion, Kitana, Mileena, and Frost are all very similar. Most of them feel restricted by their need for a “mature” presentation, but that doesnt mean they HAVE to show more skin to be more varied or interesting, just that its okay to want that and it WOULD provide more options if that is a factor in their design choices.

Personally, I want the Umk3 Skins for Jade and Kitana, and maybe make one for Skarlet.

You reported 9 posts, most of which weren't really anything of note. There were plenty before them that led to this.

Second of all, do NOT put "Reee" or "Duh" as your reason for reporting again. That's just childish.

 

[MalevolentFix]

When they get it right though.... Phew.

Credit - Tyaren [FSD/Resetera]

Credit - ???

 

[stokedAF]

Do you honestly not see the sexism in this comment?

Nope. Why do you think women dress up when they go out? To feel better about themselves lol? That goes for lesbians too. It factors in the same sex relations as well. Lesbian women want to attract a woman. It’s not sexism being sexual.

 

[Professor Oak]

You reported 9 posts, most of which weren't really anything of note. There were plenty before them that led to this.

Second of all, do NOT put "Reee" or "Duh" as your reason for reporting again. That's just childish.

Ill make my own forum, with Blackjack and Strippers.

Let others decide, not me and you. I brought attention to this constant occurring trolling and unnecessary belligerence. If you feel other comments led to some of what I reported, thats fair and all your call. But Im positive Im not alone in how this feels. Uninclusive, derogatory, shaming, misplaced, condescending, hurtful, I could go on. Its not okay. Call my “reasons” childish, but I planned to post also and didnt want to re-type the same sentence over and over. Its nearly sexual harassment. Were debating fictional characters and the posts are bringing personal sexual preferences into the question. Ill quit discussing my opinion on it, but I do think the novelty of a forum over social media is moderation. I dont want a billion responses about non-sense, thats Twitter. I want to know Im somewhere with people from all paths of life respecting one anothers ideas and interests, sexual or otherwise. Responding with disrespect to the posts is my bad, I agree. But lets be serious, reeeee.

 

[Marlow]

I mean think of Thor 1 when he came out in low cut jeans sporting that body and both the girls went google eye'd at him... that would cause a riot if it had been a girl.

Didn't they basically do that with Black Widow in Iron Man 2?

 

[Marlow]

Nope. Why do you think women dress up when they go out? To feel better about themselves lol? That goes for lesbians too. It factors in the same sex relations as well. Lesbian women want to attract a woman. It’s not sexism being sexual.

You're digging yourself in even deeper.

 

[Eldriken]

If this goes any further, we're just gonna wrap it up. Let's keep it civil. People need to learn how to discuss an opinion without getting upset over disagreements and differing views.

 

[Eldriken]

Stoked and Marlow, if y'all wanna argue, slide into one another's DMs. Move on, please.

 

[stokedAF]

Stoked and Marlow, if y'all wanna argue, slide into one another's DMs. Move on, please.

Definitely not lol.

 

[Vslayer]

@Marlow I think he means that sometimes when women go out and make themselves all pretty they want to get men's attention and men do that too let's be honest. It's nature taking its course, and it's not always because they want to get noticed sometimes they just want to feel good about themselves and correct me if I'm wrong but I'm sure men do that as well. It's not sexist if women want to get men's attention or vice versa, as I mentioned, it's pretty normal. If we didn't have that need, babies would not happen and thus the world would end. That's why we were all created with that natural impulse to want to be desired and to make them babies.

 

[MKF30]

Sigh... this topic again with the women being "objectified" for wanting to look good when she goes out? Like many have said already, it's got nothing to do with that. It's simply the rule of nature. Period. Women wants to look good for the Man, to seek a mate. Man wants to impress Woman for a mate. End of story. Animals work the same way(minus the make up lol) you think they care about this nonsense? lol They just care about mating, reproducing and staying alive. We humans are the also animals, a shame we have to complicate everything.

Agreed, both men and women have a bit of masculinity and femininity in them and that really depends on their personality. The issue that people bring up is that the women are not sexy enough, but why is badass not enough for them? Or why don't we describe the guys as sexy? We always see them as beefy and badass. Of course that also comes from the fact that men are built differently than woman and that's fine, but I feel like workout outfits and less armor would look better in this game because the designs are a bit too much, and from what I've seen they didn't get really creative when it comes to women's costumes. They only did that for the men and that in itself is a double standard.

Exactly! And thus you have your double standard lol. Period. Would give you 1000 likes for this post if I could.

Yeah, her bun and purple staff was her BEST look.

I want Cassie's workout gear, or her tux, whichever.

I want her comic book outfit when she fights Frost, I loved that outfit. It fits her personality perfectly, I also liked her ear length hair style(which we also saw in some loading screens in MK X)

If this goes any further, we're just gonna wrap it up. Let's keep it civil. People need to learn how to discuss an opinion without getting upset over disagreements and differing views.

Yeah unfortunately these topics always go downhill. I really do hope for MK 12 NRS just gives us like 20 outfits per character(both female and male) HALF showing skin, classic outfits and half covering this way everyone is pleased. To me that's a win-win. There will always be complainers no matter what, but at least that approach will satisfy most players. You like an MK 9 Skarlet. Go for it. You like MK 11 leathered up Skarlet. Go for it.

 

[SaltShaker]

Again the reason this is a false equivalency is that Liu Kang is based on a real person, Bruce Lee, who wasn’t overly-sexualized (which still didn’t prevent people from finding him attractive). But that’s the entire point, that I’m making several times, and is missed yet again here: that historically men haven’t had to be intentionally sexualized to be considered attractive on a wide scale in mainstream media.

In video games though, there has long been a trope that female characters must be deliberately sexualized via clothing, etc. in order to be considered attractive/desireable. The fact that it would even be controversial at all to have female characters in your game who are dressed well, but not provocatively, is proof of this. Absolutely no one complains when Liu Kang wears a jacket because everyone knows he was never intended to be overtly sexualized in the first place. We don't get 30-page threads about why LK is wearing a Gi or Jax suddenly has a heavy leather jacket and loose-fitting jeans instead of spandex pants.

I don't agree with this at all. I think what you are arguing is "omg the travesty women endure, the history behind it all", when in reality it's just a video game and many people want idealistic men and women for characters. Though mainly this part is off-

We don't get 30-page threads about why LK is wearing a Gi or Jax suddenly has a heavy leather jacket and loose-fitting jeans instead of spandex pants.

This is very easy to answer.

With the men, they almost all look "handsome" while also giving you all, you get any option you want. For example,

-Jax with a cool badass jacket? Select it.
-Jax with no shirt, sexy perfect abs and muscles, shining with baby oil? Select it.

-Kano with throwback MK outfit? Select it.
-Shirtless sexy AF smirking Kano? Select it.

Go to the women and you get things like-

-Millenial bubble gum chewing cocky full of personality Cassie? Full armor suits or Mass Effect body armor from neck to toe. Select one.

-Beautiful blood mage sorceress type? Cover her all the way up because MK9 existed once upon a time. Select one.


The reason why people are complaining is because we are pretending that it would be a crime for Jacqui with her full kickboxing makeover, to have a badass outfit that represents that like Mila's in DOA6 or Josie customs in T7. That would be "too sexist and means you want to fap". It's disingenuous to what the complaints actually are.

 

[Vagrant]

This is getting ugly.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

I don't agree with this at all. I think what you are arguing is "omg the travesty women endure, the history behind it all", when in reality it's just a video game and many people want idealistic men and women for characters. Though mainly this part is off-

Sure, but again -- "Idealistic women" for women in video games 9 times out of 10 has meant, "Outfits that emphasize strong sexuality + big boobs and butt with a tiny waist". The point I was trying to make is that it's ok for an "Idealistic" female in 2019 to not be defined by highly emphasized sexuality. And that it's good to finally balance that out a bit after so many years of "idealistic" meaning one thing and one thing only.

 

[Hacenit]

Again the reason this is a false equivalency is that Liu Kang is based on a real person, Bruce Lee, who wasn’t overly-sexualized

I'm sorry, but despite Liu Kang being based off Bruce Lee and having a similar body type to him originally he definitely isn't now.
Here is Bruce Lee:


Definitely muscular, also really skinny.
MK3 Liu Kang:

Pretty similar to Bruce Lee, a bit more muscular than MK1 Liu.

MK11 Liu Kang:

LORD HAVE MERCY
This man can snap Shao Kahn's scull with his pecs.
This man's biceps are incredible.
His abs are chiseled.
He's twice as thick as the original Liu Kang, god DAMN. Liu is looking good,

 

[CrimsonShadow]

I'm sorry, but despite Liu Kang being based off Bruce Lee and having a similar body type to him originally he definitely isn't now.
Here is Bruce Lee:
View attachment 14040
View attachment 14041
Definitely muscular, also really skinny.
MK3 Liu Kang:
View attachment 14043
Pretty similar to Bruce Lee, a bit more muscular than MK1 Liu.

MK11 Liu Kang:
View attachment 14044
LORD HAVE MERCY
This man can snap Shao Kahn's scull with his pecs.
This man's biceps are incredible.
His abs are chiseled.
He's twice as thick as the original Liu Kang, god DAMN. Liu is looking good,

Haha. He's on that new workout plan + Henry Cavil diet.

 

[SaltShaker]

Sure, but again -- "Idealistic women" for women in video games 9 times out of 10 has meant, "Outfits that emphasize strong sexuality + big boobs and butt with a tiny waist". The point I was trying to make is that it's ok for an "Idealistic" female in 2019 to not be defined by highly emphasized sexuality. And that it's good to finally balance that out a bit after so many years of "idealistic" meaning one thing and one thing only.

Yea I don't necessarily disagree with that, (I want them to look good but don't support MK9 for all type figures/outfits), but then I would ask what is idealistic for male image? Is it not super perfect muscles glistening with baby oil? Like Jax, and Kano, and young Johnny, and etc? Why is it perfectly acceptable to have unrealistic idolized men, but the majority of the women need to mostly or fully covered? For a video game? That's where I can't connect the dots.

Had it released and all of Jax outfits were SF gear, armor, and body suits I'd say "ok they are going for realism in MK11". Instead, for men it's fantasy, perfect figures with A+ model faces and sexualization, but for women it's "cute face with realism and respect". I find it hypocritical when things are so lopsided in one direction.

 

[dribirut]

I think the problem here is that NRS made these designs with an agenda in mind.. they made that very clear.

If they had gone out and said “we made these costumes because we genuinely thought this is the most badass these characters could look” I think the back lash would be far less

 

[stokedAF]

@Marlow I think he means that sometimes when women go out and make themselves all pretty they want to get men's attention and men do that too let's be honest. It's nature taking its course, and it's not always because they want to get noticed sometimes they just want to feel good about themselves and correct me if I'm wrong but I'm sure men do that as well. It's not sexist if women want to get men's attention or vice versa, as I mentioned, it's pretty normal. If we didn't have that need, babies would not happen and thus the world would end. That's why we were all created with that natural impulse to want to be desired and to make them babies.

Yup lol. I thought that’s what I said but I guess not lol.

You’re right but it’s not the dressing up that makes people feel good, it’s the attention people get that makes them feel good. And sure it’s the same for dudes, when you get a fresh haircut it feels good physically but it’s the attention that makes you feel good mentally. Even if you are taken and not looking it feels good when people check you out. It’s baked into our genes and it shouldn’t be vilified imo.

 

[pure.Wasted]

The irony of the person who posted this saying MK11 has no personality lmao

On the contrary, MK11 is filled to the brim with personality. It just so happens that Johnny Cage has more personality in all of his skins and gear items alone than Cassie, Sonya, Cetrion, Frost, and Skarlet do combined.

 

[Gaxkang]

With Cassie I could have taken a military-esque MMA training gear type outfit. Like when she's training.

But that would have been too much skin...even if it was covered legs but sports bra on top.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Yea I don't necessarily disagree with that, (I want them to look good but don't support MK9 for all type figures/outfits), but then I would ask what is idealistic for male image? Is it not super perfect muscles glistening with baby oil? Like Jax, and Kano, and young Johnny, and etc? Why is it perfectly acceptable to have unrealistic idolized men, but the majority of the women need to mostly or fully covered? For a video game? That's where I can't connect the dots.

Had it released and all of Jax outfits were SF gear, armor, and body suits I'd say "ok they are going for realism in MK11". Instead, for men it's fantasy, perfect figures with A+ model faces and sexualization, but for women it's "cute face with realism and respect". I find it hypocritical when things are so lopsided in one direction.

If you notice Jax is no longer wearing spandex either.

And you haven’t realized it, but you equating nice muscles for the men with women showing off T&A is exactly what we’re talking about with the gender disparity. Notice a male doesn’t have to emphasize his package in order to be considered attractive in mainstream media.

You’ve actually proved my point . Thanks.

 

[pure.Wasted]

I would ask what is idealistic for male image? Is it not super perfect muscles glistening with baby oil? Like Jax, and Kano, and young Johnny, and etc? Why is it perfectly acceptable to have unrealistic idolized men, but the majority of the women need to mostly or fully covered? For a video game? That's where I can't connect the dots.

Because there aren't millennia of ingrained cultural expectations that a man's worth to society is judged primarily by his appearance. But there are millennia of ingrained cultural expectations that a woman's worth to society is judged primarily by her appearance. That's the difference. Men are judged primarily on their actions. Women are judged primarily on their appearance. In most parts of the world, to this day. Sexualizing a female character fundamentally does not send the same message as sexualizing a male character does.

And if it's possible to change that, it will take a very long time, and a culture-wide effort.

I'm not at all saying that female characters aren't allowed to be sexy. In fact, to be frank, MK11 is missing a bit of sexiness. Not because it hasn't met a certain quota, but because there are sexy characters on the roster -- i.e. Cassie -- who have not been allowed to express their hotness.

I'm saying it's a lot more complicated than "just make everybody sexy." You want males and females to be treated equally, but they're not starting from an equal place, so treating them equally is nonsense. It will lead to different outcomes.

 

[MKF30]

Pretty much every FG has a "Bruce Lee" inspired character. But I think that's a good thing, there's an old saying.

"Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery"-Charles Caleb Colton

On the costume gig, he has shirt off outfits(shocker) and shirts on.


Now Shao Kahn, also shirtless all the time. No sex appeal at all...nahhh

 

[Samsara]

We went from talking about how interesting the designs were to veering off into gender politics again.

Nuke this thread, we're too far gone. We all contributed to it.