MK1 Tier List Discussion Thread

[LEGEND]

This IMO makes much more sense than Kanimani's tier list. I'd maybe only swap Mileena with Ashrah.


As for fixing Nitara, removing her ability to cancel from low would kill her immediately lol.

Why is Reptile in "has everything" tier?

I fully expected both of these replies lol

Answer 1) good.

Answer 2) Hes at the bottom of "has everything".I really think he's kinda crazy, Hard to balance around always having to compete with dash and his long range B3, alot of character have to play the game by initiating with a low poke, and Reptile eats that style of play alive. Didn't want to make an awkward tier of "might be missing something but his current toolset makes up for it?".

 

[Krasiox]

Fair point, i think Scorpion and Havik do everything he does but better besides invis shenanigans.
Hes just a character in a vacuum "hes decent" but not decent enough as characters listed below him in tierlists usually win their MU ex. with yours - Lao,Tanya,Shang,Quan.

 

[LEGEND]

Fair point, i think Scorpion and Havik do everything he does but better besides invis shenanigans.
Hes just a character in a vacuum "hes decent" but not decent enough as characters listed below him in tierlists usually win their MU ex. with yours - Lao,Tanya,Shang,Quan.

I would likely agree that Shang wins more matchups than Reptile. But Shang is a weird case for many reasons and part of why I didn't want to make a tier list based on matchups.

I would say that Reptile gets to play his game more frequently than all characters below him, and his game plan is just fine. But that's just my opinion

 

[OldManFGC]

View attachment 22118

Here is my unserious, not-so-rigid tier list on how I feel about the cast. Each tier in order. All characters assumed to be using their best Kameos. This list is more grounded in what is "known" level of play and not so focused on hypothetical "highest level gameplay" or matchup spread.

I feel like nobody in the "Has Everything" tier should be buffed/nerfed in a significant way.

low effort opinions on how the rest of the cast could be rebalanced:

Spoiler: Suggested Changes

Sektor - Make all rockets splat on hit, not launch-able with Mavado. B3 could be a frame faster and easier to hit confirm.

Cyrax - Make both hits of the Buzzsaw string vacuum to the opponent on block. This makes her more consistently punishable by -7 punishes and keeps her from back dashing to safety vs others that would only be able to pressure with a mid afterwards (less brainless disjointed normals please). Teleport should leave her at point blank range and have slightly more recovery. To compensate, Give her another hit of Her B3 string and make the ender safe on block and hard knockdown on hit. (Bonus, Combos after command grab cannot link into net and combo damage scales properly, ie no 30%+ damage with Sektor or starting the vortex off of a grab.)

Johnny Cage - No more safe jump off of every combo. Finally nerf his Jump Kick, either more recovery on hit to lessen combo potential, or make it more consistent to anti-air. (He'll still be top tier)

Kenshi - Heavy re-work (Sorry Kenshi players, you picked the dumbest gameplay design ever to hitch your wagon to).

Reiko - Increased Command Grab damage (14% min on non-EX, EX could be faster start-up and/or more damage). Scale down the Command grab + Kameo combo damage (make it questionable to even use, so that other Kameos are more appealing). Make his F1 mid at least 1 frame faster so that it beats all pokes after a blocked B2 (F2?, the high that is +8 OB)

Mileena - I think she is really strong and well designed. Maybe less damage output
_

Homelander - Delete his command grab. Add another Laser or something idc.

Scorpion - Special cancelable B3 is questionable (maybe just make it safe on block), otherwise his kit is kinda perfect. He just has too great of synergy with Jax and Ferra.

Nitara - No cancel on her low.

Sindel - F1 raw is now heavily punishable on block and has less cancel advantage. D3 more negative on block.

Havik - Revert his Neck Snap change. EX dive kick no longer exists. Give him a fast mid or better hit advantage off of D4.

_
Shang - Another projectile option (Upskull or soul steal PLEASE!) or something to play footsies with that isn't just D4/D3 all the time. (F3 is doo-doo, please give me a reason to not touch that button.)

Shao - FFS give this guy a mid.

Takeda - Make B3 a couple frames faster and/or make it hit confirmable into decent damage without Kameo.

Raiden - Faster mid string or something to poke/threaten with outside of D4 range. Could just make his uncharged projectile much faster.

_
Lao - Safe hit confirmable mid, sub 14 frames. Buff divekick so that it actually beats out AA options, the thing constantly loses to jabs. No frame difference for B3(3) and B3(4), less negative on block.

Tanya - What is this character even supposed to be doing?

Geras - Full screen projectile that is + on block but slow startup. Hard to account for all his existing tools when considering changes.(Buff this guy's outfits please)

Sub Zero - Give this guy a better mid and something disjointed to poke with. B2 is mis-designed, he needs more offensive options to make it threatening to scout. Or just make it faster, safe and not combo on hit.

Quan - Let him play the game. . . Fix his pokes and give him a mid worth pressing.

Smoke - More mix, or give him the needed tools to play the base game like every other good character (disjointed footsie tool and a good mid)
_

Peacemaker - I wasn't playing when this character was broke tier. Haven't ran into a single one since his big nerf. No interest in labbing. No idea.

Appreciate you sharing this as it gives something to discuss. Agree with most of the upper portion, especially the top 5 (those seem pretty set for most folks). I'd maybe still throw Johnny in there but that's probably just because he's a tough MU for my main and I play against a really good one frequently.

As for other reactions, I'll go with some of the bigger ones:

• As another person said, I don't think Reptile has it all. He's got some really brutal MUs against the top tiers, and even if we're not looking at MUs, just tools, his armored move is awful, and his footsie string isn't great either with that big ol gap, plus his projectiles lacking range means he really can't play a zoning game. Agree that his B3 is amazing with Mavado but it nets you low damage. All in all, I think he's one of the worst right now.
• Tanya is still incredible. In fact, in some ways she's better. Sure, people that just wanted to armor for free all day and be covered by Goro are SOL but being able to 0 meter bar, 0 kameo bar combos as long as you're charged? Or speed up projectiles? Or combo off parry easier? Or parry projectiles? All that stuff is great and her buttons are still some of the best in the game. I'd put her in the tier right under the top 5-6.
• Lastly, as anyone who has seen me post before knows, I'm gonna say Sub is solid, really solid actually since he has good MUs against some of the top tiers. Most of his buffs haven't meant much but the Klone change was great and the kameos he uses getting better makes him all the better too. I think it's harder to see his placement since you do need to change kameo based on MU, but I'd say he's solid middle of the pack, if not a touch higher since he has very few losing MU.
• Oh, and I'd put Geras much higher. Grrr is a great player, but there are a lot of really strong tools Geras + Motaro give you. He just has to be more careful, like Sub in some ways, instead of being so rushdown like a lot of the top tiers.

Anyway, not expecting anyone to agree or anything, just fun to chat about. Again, thanks for making the list!

 

[Eji1700]

• Lastly, as anyone who has seen me post before knows, I'm gonna say Sub is solid, really solid actually since he has good MUs against some of the top tiers. Most of his buffs haven't meant much but the Klone change was great and the kameos he uses getting better makes him all the better too. I think it's harder to see his placement since you do need to change kameo based on MU, but I'd say he's solid middle of the pack, if not a touch higher since he has very few losing MU.

Curious which matchups you have him good in? I've seen that clone can give nitara fits, which is nice. Just curious how else he can screw with the higher tiers.

 

[LEGEND]

Appreciate you sharing this as it gives something to discuss. Agree with most of the upper portion, especially the top 5 (those seem pretty set for most folks). I'd maybe still throw Johnny in there but that's probably just because he's a tough MU for my main and I play against a really good one frequently.

As for other reactions, I'll go with some of the bigger ones:

• As another person said, I don't think Reptile has it all. He's got some really brutal MUs against the top tiers, and even if we're not looking at MUs, just tools, his armored move is awful, and his footsie string isn't great either with that big ol gap, plus his projectiles lacking range means he really can't play a zoning game. Agree that his B3 is amazing with Mavado but it nets you low damage. All in all, I think he's one of the worst right now.
• Tanya is still incredible. In fact, in some ways she's better. Sure, people that just wanted to armor for free all day and be covered by Goro are SOL but being able to 0 meter bar, 0 kameo bar combos as long as you're charged? Or speed up projectiles? Or combo off parry easier? Or parry projectiles? All that stuff is great and her buttons are still some of the best in the game. I'd put her in the tier right under the top 5-6.
• Lastly, as anyone who has seen me post before knows, I'm gonna say Sub is solid, really solid actually since he has good MUs against some of the top tiers. Most of his buffs haven't meant much but the Klone change was great and the kameos he uses getting better makes him all the better too. I think it's harder to see his placement since you do need to change kameo based on MU, but I'd say he's solid middle of the pack, if not a touch higher since he has very few losing MU.
• Oh, and I'd put Geras much higher. Grrr is a great player, but there are a lot of really strong tools Geras + Motaro give you. He just has to be more careful, like Sub in some ways, instead of being so rushdown like a lot of the top tiers.

Anyway, not expecting anyone to agree or anything, just fun to chat about. Again, thanks for making the list!

I need to see more from Tanya. I haven't had to worry against any I've played, and haven't seen anyone on a stream or tournament run.

Geras gameplay wise is unsafe on block for nearly everything and really bad on wiff, while also sticking his body out during his attacks, leaving himself exposed. His command grab is slow and high risk / low reward. His only viable means of plays is to be extremely lame and sit on a life leads from an early sandstorm or 50/50. The threat of snap is very dumb game design imo. Grrr is a top talent that would be dominating if he played nearly any other character.

Sub Zero doesn't seem to have anything going for him. I feel like Khameleon is his only viable option, and he plays as just a vehicle for that Kameo. No good wiff punish button, clone is unusable, 50/50 is rarely worth going for. He's gotta use glaive for +frames and wiff punishment, Kitana for safety and Mileena for real mix. Which in that case you can say pretty much everyone is better cause everyone can be a vehicle for Khameleon, + their own stuff. I think there is a good reason this character has had zero competitive success.

Reptile is my hot take I guess. I'd be careful to give him anything