Mind Games (patch)

[Gotcha]

Well jax finally got patched and can now dash cancel his normal ground pound. Depending on your play style you might be excited about this or be like "meh w/e i can never get a ground pound off anyway". I also heard that jax would be getting some more super armor for his dash n punch. But so far i havent seen any armor on that move (even on wake up, i still get hit in my face) so idk if that actually got buffed or not. Tell me if you find anything else new about him.
Q: Do you think this patch actually made jax a better charecter?

 

[D_Matt_Ma]

Well jax finally got patched and can now dash cancel his normal ground pound. Depending on your play style you might be excited about this or be like "meh w/e i can never get a ground pound off anyway". I also heard that jax would be getting some more super armor for his dash n punch. But so far i havent seen any armor on that move (even on wake up, i still get hit in my face) so idk if that actually got buffed or not. Tell me if you find anything else new about him.
Q: Do you think this patch actually made jax a better charecter?

He already has armor on his enhanced punch post patch.

 

[DrDogg]

Better character? Yes. Viable? No.

Canceling Ground Pound is nice, but it's still one of the slowest attacks in the game. You can use it to bait out attacks now, but against good opponents that won't help Jax much.

The armor on EX Dash Punch is nice, but it doesn't lead to anything significant. IMO, Jax is still low tier.

 

[Jade101]

Better character? Yes. Viable? No.

Canceling Ground Pound is nice, but it's still one of the slowest attacks in the game. You can use it to bait out attacks now, but against good opponents that won't help Jax much.

The armor on EX Dash Punch is nice, but it doesn't lead to anything significant. IMO, Jax is still low tier.

That's what i keep saying, nrs is dumb. They do not give jax a lil more damage .but they keep give buffs to high tier guy its BS

 

[Evil_Riu48]

jax is not a top tier character but he can compete all he need to be an very good character is 2 to hit mid or that they make it so the sencond hit on 2f2 comes out faster he already can compete but this small change would help him a lot because one of his weakness is that he has a hard time attacking people who as soon as you get close they want to d3

 

[DrDogg]

jax is not a top tier character but he can compete all he need to be an very good character is 2 to hit mid or that they make it so the sencond hit on 2f2 comes out faster he already can compete but this small change would help him a lot because one of his weakness is that he has a hard time attacking people who as soon as you get close they want to d3

Please explain how he can compete. This is my take on Jax:

Ground Pound - Useless
Gotcha Grab - Minimal uses, leads to minimal damage
Dash Punch - Lots of uses, leads to minimal damage
X-Ray - Can't combo into it, must be used to blow through an opponent's attacks, doesn't win matches.
Combo Potential - Minimal against high level competition
Pressure Game - Non-existent
Zoning Game - Non-existent
Damage Output - Minimal

The Overhead Smash is his best attack, but even that doesn't lead to much damage.

 

[THTB]

His throw is his best attack. There is no other character whose throw is as much of a guess as Jax's.

Also, ground pound cancels give Jax really solid mindgames after a knockdown. Is he gonna let the pound go? Is he gonna cancel into dashblock and bait my wakeup? So on and so forth. It being cancellable gives him a plethora of mindgames if he knocks you down.

 

[DrDogg]

His throw is his best attack. There is no other character whose throw is as much of a guess as Jax's.

Also, ground pound cancels give Jax really solid mindgames after a knockdown. Is he gonna let the pound go? Is he gonna cancel into dashblock and bait my wakeup? So on and so forth. It being cancellable gives him a plethora of mindgames if he knocks you down.

I can't break throws while holding block, so I assume just about every character has a ridiculous throw game. It's almost to the point where I'm ready to stop playing the game.

As far as the ground pound goes, you can't cancel it until late in the animation. That alone hasn't allowed me to pressure as much as I would like to, even on wake-up. The opponent simply has far too much time to react to it.

 

[THTB]

I can't break throws while holding block, so I assume just about every character has a ridiculous throw game. It's almost to the point where I'm ready to stop playing the game.

As far as the ground pound goes, you can't cancel it until late in the animation. That alone hasn't allowed me to pressure as much as I would like to, even on wake-up. The opponent simply has far too much time to react to it.

When I say Jax's throw is a total guess to break, I mean he can do either a forward or backward throw and either one can put you in the same position as the other. All the while getting 13% on each one, which may be a measly 1% more than any other throw, but you get my point. His throw is literally probably the best in the game.

How late can it be cancelled? Like, shortly before he starts punching downward?

 

[Jade101]

When I say Jax's throw is a total guess to break, I mean he can do either a forward or backward throw and either one can put you in the same position as the other. All the while getting 13% on each one, which may be a measly 1% more than any other throw, but you get my point. His throw is literally probably the best in the game.

How late can it be cancelled? Like, shortly before he starts punching downward?

jax sucks, stop trying to make him better then he is. So he will not get buffed! He needs more end of story.

 

[THTB]

I'm not saying he's top tier or anything, but he does have the best normal throws in the game.

 

[CY MasterHavik]

Jax needs more to get the job done. This ain't enough.

 

[Evil_Riu48]

Please explain how he can compete. This is my take on Jax:

Ground Pound - Useless
Gotcha Grab - Minimal uses, leads to minimal damage
Dash Punch - Lots of uses, leads to minimal damage
X-Ray - Can't combo into it, must be used to blow through an opponent's attacks, doesn't win matches.
Combo Potential - Minimal against high level competition
Pressure Game - Non-existent
Zoning Game - Non-existent
Damage Output - Minimal

The Overhead Smash is his best attack, but even that doesn't lead to much damage.

Ground Pound - Useless
90% of the time you should use this move as a setup to make your opponent jump and then AA them. . .check what your opponent like to do when they see the
ground pound coming and ask yourself do they like to jump in ? jump back? or do a attack if they like to jump in you can cancel with a B dash or a F dash based on your possion to get a AA ( d2 or db1 ) . . . if they like to jump back you can cancel the ground pound with a F dash to df2 for an AA. . . if they like to do an attack you can back dash and counter with df2 or a cross jump if you are at the right range for it. . . onece you train them to this they will not be jumping right after they see the animation and you can finish the ground pound animation for a mix up ( finish your gound pound only at a safe range)

2) ground pound at full screen can be use to cut your distance do a ground pound and if your opponent jump f you can cancel with a F dash to df2 for an AA ... if they jump back you can F dash and cancel the F dash with another ground pound if they jump back again cancel again with a F dash to another ground pound if he keeps jumping back he is just putting himself in the conner ... if you do ground pound a full screen and you see a fire ball attack coming you can do F dash to a F jump to jump the fire ball and cut distance.

Gotcha Grab - Minimal uses
this is jax best move at close. . . this move is on huge advantage on block this move has so much advantage on block that you can do up to 3 gotcha before your opponent can do anything like duck , jump , or a attack if they try to do anything the gotcha grab will get them first. . . one of jax gold is to put his opponent in a possition where he has to block his F jump 2or1 then do 2,f2,gotcha and right after it 12 gotcha to another 12gotcha this is free cheap damage their is nothing your opponent can do to stop this . . . onece they learn to respect this option you can do 12gotcha and then grab for a mixup they can not duck or jump the grab if they stop holding block to counter tech your grab and guess wrong they are eating 12gotcha this is really hard position to be on because they have to guess no once but twice.

X-Ray - Can't combo into it
i would not safe my meter for an xray his ex df2 is 2 good it does a 17% which mean you can get a 51% from the 3 bars that the xray use and the xray does what 41%? and that is if you get someone with it. . . ex df2 can be use to counter fire ball attacks and make your opponent think twice before they throw a fire ball.

Pressure Game - Non-existent
i think i already answere this but i ll add that jax is not a turtle he should take the fight fast to his opponent giving his opponent little time to think about what to do and he is good at this

Zoning Game - Non-existent
i think i already answere this as well but i ll add that you can do ground pound back dash to fireball and it works very good

 

[BigDaddyKrames]

^ Both Jax's 1,2 and his Gotcha Grab will whiff on crouching opponents, and his overheads are too slow. You can duck at any time during 1,2 xx GotchaGrab and the following hits will whiff. In fact, the only somewhat reliable string for hitting ducking opponents is the 2,f+2 string (the first hit whiffs on crouching opponents who aren't blocking >_>). f+4 will also hit them, but it is unfortunately a low that is predictably followed with Overhead Smash. (You can't even try to hit-confirm with the f+4,1 string because you cannot cancel the whiffed 1 into Overhead Smash if you realize the opponent has blocked the low.) Hell, using 2,1 xx Gotcha and 2,f+2,b+1 with some throws and Overhead Smashes thrown in would offer better pressure than 1,2 xx Gotcha spam, and even then, it's not very great pressure. The fact that you can fuzzy guard in this game doesn't exactly make it any easier to perform either. Also, where'd you get three times? That doesn't even make sense... 0_o Moves have the same recovery and blockstun (unless the opponent releases block early, I believe) regardless of how many times in a row you do them.

As far as zoning goes, the most Jax can do is use ground pound on zoners who are outside their optimal/safe range and using a slow-recovery projectile (e.g. Reptile's force ball). Now that he has EX Dash Punch, he can deal with zoners a bit more easily, but he remains primarily a close-range character. Hell, his zoning is even worse now that he can't even try throwing a projectile or two at Cage and the like because of all the armor on EX moves.

The only thing I might agree with is Ground Pound not being useless, but I haven't seen or used the new, patched Jax, so it may still be too slow of an option, even dash-cancelled.

 

[Evil_Riu48]

^ Both Jax's 1,2 and his Gotcha Grab will whiff on crouching opponents, and his overheads are too slow. You can duck at any time during 1,2 xx GotchaGrab and the following hits will whiff. In fact, the only somewhat reliable string for hitting ducking opponents is the 2,f+2 string (the first hit whiffs on crouching opponents who aren't blocking >_>). f+4 will also hit them, but it is unfortunately a low that is predictably followed with Overhead Smash. (You can't even try to hit-confirm with the f+4,1 string because you cannot cancel the whiffed 1 into Overhead Smash if you realize the opponent has blocked the low.) Hell, using 2,1 xx Gotcha and 2,f+2,b+1 with some throws and Overhead Smashes thrown in would offer better pressure than 1,2 xx Gotcha spam, and even then, it's not very great pressure. The fact that you can fuzzy guard in this game doesn't exactly make it any easier to perform either. Also, where'd you get three times? That doesn't even make sense... 0_o Moves have the same recovery and blockstun (unless the opponent releases block early, I believe) regardless of how many times in a row you do them.

As far as zoning goes, the most Jax can do is use ground pound on zoners who are outside their optimal/safe range and using a slow-recovery projectile (e.g. Reptile's force ball). Now that he has EX Dash Punch, he can deal with zoners a bit more easily, but he remains primarily a close-range character. Hell, his zoning is even worse now that he can't even try throwing a projectile or two at Cage and the like because of all the armor on EX moves.

The only thing I might agree with is Ground Pound not being useless, but I haven't seen or used the new, patched Jax, so it may still be too slow of an option, even dash-cancelled.

that is why i said one of his golds is to put his opponent in a position where they have to block a jump punch because after the jump punch 2f2gotcha jail the opponent on standing block not letting them duck and you can do 12gotcha or gotcha 2 time or 3 times and your opponent wont be able to duck because one block gotcha jails the opponent to another gotcha this is a fact and has been tested by myself if you do not want to take my word for it then test it yourself

 

[REYTHEGREAT]

hey rui, are you using jax now? i would love to play your jax.

 

[Evil_Riu48]

are you playing to night rey?

 

[BigDaddyKrames]

that is why i said one of his golds is to put his opponent in a position where they have to block a jump punch because after the jump punch 2f2gotcha jail the opponent on standing block not letting them duck and you can do 12gotcha or gotcha 2 time or 3 times and your opponent wont be able to duck because one block gotcha jails the opponent to another gotcha this is a fact and has been tested by myself if you do not want to take my word for it then test it yourself

Funny, I actually did try it out earlier, and the opponent would duck after 1, but before 2. It's working now, though. I completely disregarded pushback as being the cause of the 3 times thing >_> (2 midscreen, 3 in corner, I think). Liking the meter gain off that more than the damage, but yeah, that's pretty nice. I'm still gonna have to wait for the negative edge/netcode fix to get that working well online, though. :/ At least those accidental Dash Punches are safe. By the way, do you mean to be saying "golds?" First, I read it as a typo of "goals," but you've done it twice now. Is it some term I'm not aware of?

 

[CY MasterHavik]

What are some good combos off a ground pound?

 

[REYTHEGREAT]

are you playing to night rey?

not tonight. ill be on friday night. if i see you on, ill hit you up.

 

[DrDogg]

that is why i said one of his golds is to put his opponent in a position where they have to block a jump punch because after the jump punch 2f2gotcha jail the opponent on standing block not letting them duck and you can do 12gotcha or gotcha 2 time or 3 times and your opponent wont be able to duck because one block gotcha jails the opponent to another gotcha this is a fact and has been tested by myself if you do not want to take my word for it then test it yourself

You can't run your offense through a jump punch. Too many characters have solid anti-air options and Jax is limited in his safe jump setups.

Also, you can't pressure well with Ground Pound. The fact that you can't cancel it until late in the animation gives good opponents plenty of time to react before Jax can cancel. If you're far enough away to avoid this, it also means you're far enough away to make it difficult to cancel into an anti-air. Most of what you recommend with Jax doesn't work against good opponents or against any of the top tier characters.

He's still arguably the worst character in the game. The only way you'll be able to change my opinion of that is by showing me a match vid of Jax hanging well with a top player using a mid-tier (or better) character. Good luck finding that...

When I say Jax's throw is a total guess to break, I mean he can do either a forward or backward throw and either one can put you in the same position as the other. All the while getting 13% on each one, which may be a measly 1% more than any other throw, but you get my point. His throw is literally probably the best in the game.

How late can it be cancelled? Like, shortly before he starts punching downward?

I get what you're saying, but all throws are a total guess. Just because I "should" keep you in the corner, doesn't mean I will. Especially late in the round or when you're low on health.

Also, it's not about how late it can be canceled. The problem is how early it can be canceled. I'll probably get to more frame data over the next few days, at which point I'll check exactly how early you can cancel the attack, but if I had to guess, I'd say of the ~40 frames of execution the ground pound has, Jax can't cancel until probably the 20th frame at the very earliest.

 

[Evil_Riu48]

drdogg if you have your mind set to '' my opponent can counter every thing that i do'' you have already lost the match before it started. . . jumps are easily counter but you still see people jumping and hitting the opponents with their jumps don't you?

 

[DrDogg]

drdogg if you have your mind set to '' my opponent can counter every thing that i do'' you have already lost the match before it started. . . jumps are easily counter but you still see people jumping and hitting the opponents with their jumps don't you?

I don't go in with that mindset. But I also don't go into a match as Jax thinking my character is top tier.

And I see what happens when people recklessly jump in on Kung Lao, Kitana or half the cast. Sure, you'll get a few jump-ins here or there (not counting safe jump setups), but the risk is not worth the reward... especially where Jax is concerned.

 

[Evil_Riu48]

I don't go in with that mindset. But I also don't go into a match as Jax thinking my character is top tier.

And I see what happens when people recklessly jump in on Kung Lao, Kitana or half the cast. Sure, you'll get a few jump-ins here or there (not counting safe jump setups), but the risk is not worth the reward... especially where Jax is concerned.

who said anything about jax been top tier? all i been saying is that he can compete and that he is not trash like you and others think.
drdogg where are you from?

 

[Jade101]

who said anything about jax been top tier? all i been saying is that he can compete and that he is not trash like you and others think.
drdogg where are you from?

Jax can't compete.