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Video/Tutorial - Dragon Breath Meterless Corner Vortex, +30 Fart Set-Ups, Psuedo Block Vortexes, Guaranteed Unblockables, ETC. ETC.

Percimon

Percimon

Sky above, Voice within
Youphemism said:
And here come TYM with the insinuation of "downplaying" without any evidence or lab time themselves as per usual *sigh*

Firstly before I explain some stuff understand that I'm not trying to say these setups aren't good because they clearly are, I mean breaking every wakeup in the game is great. The mixup followups from B3 and F3 are really good as well. But there is some stuff you guys should probably understand that isn't listed in this video, read this before you cry for nerfs for a character you made an assumption about based on one video REO made. It happened unnecessarily with Cyber Sub Zero because you guys didn't lab it so let's try and avoid it this time. Please.

1. While the mixup is there between F3 and B3 and the followups from them are stronger for mixups, B3 is 23 frames and F3 is 26 with visibly different animations. I suggest you guys make sure you've labbed this stuff up before you say it's broken and at least attempt to see if you can guys can block this well. The real mixup is the followups and if he hits you with the 1+3 parts you're out of the corner anyway which is good for you.
2. I'm not sure you definitely can't backdash the mixup after J2 on hit, it doesn't make sense. Either the hitstun is big enough to jail F3/B3 in which case it will just continue the combo as there's no autoblock on a j2 or you do the reset in which case you have 1 frame to jail a B3/F3 or there's a backdashable gap. So either you've got to try and consistently hit a 1 frame jail or there's going to be a backdashable gap.
HOWEVER this point may not be too important as even if you can backdash it won't matter because you'll still be in the corner so that shit's pretty much guaranteed either way.
3. Bo Rai Cho actually has to touch you/get you to the corner in the first place to even start doing this. Anyone that's labbed him will be able to tell that his neutral isn't exactly the best, besides his pokes and F1 a lot of his stuff is pretty slow/hits high. It's basically the opposite problem from Jacqui, instead of being fast but not having amazing range Bo has range but isn't fast lol. But like Jacqui if he somehow manages to get you there then it becomes a big problem for you.
4. I'm not going to say much about the F3 feint stuff. To me personally it just looks like he's running but maybe not to others. I think it'd be best to learn more about it and see how viable it becomes in the future first before making a judgement on it.
5. DRAGON'S BREATH IS THE BEST VARIATION FOR THIS TECH. With Drunken Master/Bartitsu you have to commit to something more unsafe from his mixups. This is only showing what ONE variation can do with it. Just keep that in mind.

I know you're all probably rolling your eyes but for the love of god just once would you guys consider the things that aren't covered in the video? The things you might realise if you labbed stuff? What REO has discovered and posted is just to show off the tech and the best case scenario possibilities. I'm not saying this isn't viable, I'm not saying it's bad or that anyone that gets hit by it is bad, I'm not excusing what REO has posted. I too understand how good it is if he manages to get it set up, I'm just trying to make sure that you guys understand this from all angles rather than just the one presented in the video. Please don't get him nerfed because of a hasty overreaction.
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I ABSOLUTELY agree with you.

Also, I admit, his corner game in DB is pretty strong.
BUT:

- he has no good punishing normals (first hit of f1 reaches opponent on very close range);
- he has no quick mid normlas except d1, f1;
- every long range move has slow start up;
- he has no tools to open up opponent on midscreen;
- he has no tools for zoning / antizoning (yes, he has ex-df2, but it's horrible cuz it really slow and has no armor / it doesnt absorb opponent's projectiles);
- he has no armored, safe, mid specials (ex-db2 is high, ex-db3 is unsafe, ex-db4 is unsafe; DB unique specials has no armor);
- he has shitloads of gaps, because there's gap almost in every good string (except 111, 1212, 244, f34).

And ye, few of these problems are solved in Bartitsu, another problems are solved in DM, but those two variations have their own problems too, trust me.

And you, guys, still think that he deserve more nerfs or smth?
or do you think that nerfs (especially DM nerfs) what he got are really necessary? (except unblockable nerf)




P.S I really like this character and DM variation, so I'm not gonna stop playing as him even if he will get more nerfs.
 
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SaltShaker

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
juicepouch said:
mobility complaints give me terrible flashbacks to fighting the half the cast that could zone the shit out of grundy

#RIP
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That secret high tier life bro. Never actually high tier, but since in theory you are, buffs will make you too strong like the too strong characters.
 
juicepouch

juicepouch

blink-182 enthusiast
SaltShaker said:
That secret high tier life bro. Never actually high tier, but since in theory you are, buffs will make you too strong like the too strong characters.
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"but but but but wcc!" They all said, as every grundy to ever live was slowly zoned to death and buried in salt

having been down that road i have no desire in trying to play brc now
 
J

Jowabunga

Woooooooooooooo!
TakeAChance said:
Cons: Always Negative
Piss Poor Mids
Life on the Line at all times.
No stagger pressure.
Piss Poor neutral.
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And this is before you even start talking about the pressure of drinking in Drunken Master. I really want to like this guy but the wooooooork....
 
SaltShaker

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
KidVanDal said:
Grundy was secretly top tier because tyrant.

right?
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Yes and No. Quick history lesson.

Before MU exp early on he appeared really strong. Top 5 potential talk was rampant. Then people learned the MU. Tyrant came out and spoke about how underpowered he felt Grundy was while being the best Grundy player. That good players learned the MU, making the weaknesses incredibly hard to overcome in some MUs. Instead of taking his opinion into perspective, TYM bashed him to oblivion saying that he was washed up, a scrub, and couldn't adapt. A little after this he stopped posting on TYM completely.

Since Grundy was doing godlike damage in the training room, had these godlike tech videos, and had all these uber damage resets/setups, it was decided that Tyrant needed to level up and the character was really good, that literally everyone including him was playing him wrong. If the right people used him he'd be top 10 was the narrative at the time.

Then more time passed and the issues became clear to all. The same people who bashed Tyrant for his comments telling him to "adapt because Grundy is borderline top 5" changed their opinion to "wow Grundy isn't as good as I thought, he does need help". Most of the those people didn't use the character so it didn't effect them, and the patches were over so the damage was already done.



Just one example, but that's what happened. "Secret top tier" is almost always detrimental because of "actual top tier", and rarely moves beyond the theory stage. This has happened to multiple characters in MK9 and Injustice, but as they say, history repeats.
 
omooba

omooba

fear the moobs
omg after boraicho player's hard work of keeping this character unknown you just come here and uproot all that. you are so fucking selfish reo:mad::mad::mad::mad:
 
pretty flocko

pretty flocko

Noob
So you can tech roll out of this set up if you opponent does the fart as soon as jump up 3 lands the fart will wiff if they tech roll
 
KidVanDal

KidVanDal

Noob
SaltShaker said:
Yes and No. Quick history lesson.

Before MU exp early on he appeared really strong. Top 5 potential talk was rampant. Then people learned the MU. Tyrant came out and spoke about how underpowered he felt Grundy was while being the best Grundy player. That good players learned the MU, making the weaknesses incredibly hard to overcome in some MUs. Instead of taking his opinion into perspective, TYM bashed him to oblivion saying that he was washed up, a scrub, and couldn't adapt. A little after this he stopped posting on TYM completely.

Since Grundy was doing godlike damage in the training room, had these godlike tech videos, and had all these uber damage resets/setups, it was decided that Tyrant needed to level up and the character was really good, that literally everyone including him was playing him wrong. If the right people used him he'd be top 10 was the narrative at the time.

Then more time passed and the issues became clear to all. The same people who bashed Tyrant for his comments telling him to "adapt because Grundy is borderline top 5" changed their opinion to "wow Grundy isn't as good as I thought, he does need help". Most of the those people didn't use the character so it didn't effect them, and the patches were over so the damage was already done.



Just one example, but that's what happened. "Secret top tier" is almost always detrimental because of "actual top tier", and rarely moves beyond the theory stage. This has happened to multiple characters in MK9 and Injustice, but as they say, history repeats.
Click to expand...

I know this answer is super late but you got that I was sarcastic right?
 
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