Lord Raiden General Discussion Thread

[RedShaggy]

Is F4 on blocks safe? It says it's -4 but feels more negative.

f4 seems pretty safe to me, I don't know the frames of Lao's spin but in lab reversal Lao spin doesn't touch it but it does get you on f2.

f2 seems like the better hitbox version but it's high and less safe, with better recovery (high risk high reward). f4 being the safer but less juicy whiff punish?

 

[kabelfritz]

Great minds think alike? But yeah, he definitely doesn't fit the zoner or the rushdown style. It really is defensive. How people survive without teleport either amazes me. His teleport is so good when you get a hard read on a projectile.

raiden is a classic "turtle" archetype imo. in raijin even more than in thunder wave. if raiden had a variation with storm cell, teleport and raijins db3 (the buff) he would be S-tier at least.

 

[kabelfritz]

Maybe the key to raiden IS mastering the TP but even if you use It to go full screen... I feel like everyone is gonna beat me with a projectile, it's so slow man Maybe lighting strike (is It called like that?) can have a chance. Will try.

edit: what string would you guys use after B12 TP in his face f32, grab, 243? Or Maybe trying tp rb since the animation IS superfast.

raidens projectile game cant be set up before they fear the rest he can do (aka teleport and raijin db 3 to an extent, where they just feed you if they hit your block with a projectile)

 

[kabelfritz]

I may be wrong, but I have the strong impression that Raiden, at least in Thunder Wave variation, is meant to spend most of both his bars on controlling the space (not the pace) of the match. Between 5 different teleports and his superman cancels, it's almost impossible for your opponent to have a good idea where you're going to be from one moment to the next. Once you get them off-balance a bit and they're swinging at air, the utility of his long-range pokes opens up a lot more.

I still haven't found a good use for Raijin variation. :/

if youre not patient as a saint, dont play raijin . against heavy zoners, block a projectile fullscreen, set up the buff, block three hits while dashblocking in and even when youre in close its not your turn to attack, but bait offense that you counter. it works, but its really hard. this character will also heavily profit of intricate knowledge of your opponents frame data with his 4f reversal.

 

[kabelfritz]

You never know what they're going to do. They left him in garbage tier in Injustice 2 despite obvious flaws. I feel like back 12 should be very safe and that's the only thing I'd petition for. Storm cell would turn into d4 hell sparks if the last hit wasn't a high. If you watch the sonic fox rewind match from January, rewind was doing b12 - d1 check into grab. Which leads me to believe it was originally very safe or 0 on block. Because sonya could have challenged with her d3. That should probably come back. It doesn't break the character like Geras's stupid 6 frame d1 and Atrocitus like puddle sand teleports... wtf is that...

short hop into bf3 can punish geras zoning nonsense from midscreen. theres also a sweet spot to stand in between the ranges he can do.

 

[kabelfritz]

Which is a universal 4 frame reversal?

db3 after you set up the buff (also db3) and loaded it by blocking 3 hits. Has to be amped though for damage and safety, its -5 ON HIT if you dont AMP it. But that move has

4f startup
is a reversal
MID
sweep range
extends hitbox above your character and to midscreen on both sides with the consecutive hits from AMP
does not need to connect to be AMPed
amped does ~170 damage (with 3 hits)
AMPed knocks fullscreen
allows to set up the buff right again after hit

you can win whole matches by only blocking and doing this move

 

[Kindred]

Im thinking of picking up Raiden but out of curiousity:

1. What is his best variation?
2. What are his issues, if any?

 

[AbeW]

Can Cassie or Sonya be a good secondary for a Raiden main (cover Raiden's weaknesses)?

 

[AbeW]

Well sonya is literally the opposite of Raiden in terms of game plan. She is basically rushdown with a crazy good projectile. Raiden is defense with bad projectiles... so there's that.

But honestly, it would take a decent player about three days to get a good feel for every character on the roster. There's plenty of undiscovered tech sure, but MKX had some execution that really makes this game look... very beginner friendly to put it diplomatically.

Right now Geras and Erron Black cover all bad matchups because they have almost no flaws. It should take you 30-40 minutes to master Geras.

In MKX, between the 3 variations (TG, Disp, MOS), Raiden had no bad matchups. It doesn't seem to be the case in this game with everything i've labbed so far. I have not had the time to lab the full roster. So i thought i'd throw that question here. Erron, Baraka and Geras look higher tier but i have no appeal to any of them.

 

[kabelfritz]

i just ran into a thunder wave that did b12 and followed with d1~db2. that fucked up my mind, got hit out of the d1 counterpoke every time.

 

[TendouTensei]

Something really weird is the storm cell against women characters, the opponent is not as higher than expected on hit! It makes me wiff and the end sometimes because of it !

It should be fixed imo

 

[RedShaggy]

Something really weird is the storm cell against women characters, the opponent is not as higher than expected on hit! It makes me wiff and the end sometimes because of it !

It should be fixed imo

Historically in NRS games (someone please korrect me if I am wrong) female's have had slightly different hurtboxes and thus juggle differently. Some kombos don't work for this reason or have different timing in Injustice 2, MKX, mayyybe MK9, and definitely in MK11.

Sorta weird but doubt they will fix it or you'll get some whacky hits that look like they whiffed.

 

[AbeW]

Something really weird is the storm cell against women characters, the opponent is not as higher than expected on hit! It makes me wiff and the end sometimes because of it !

It should be fixed imo

The last hit is a high. If your opponent know this, they can neutral duck it and punish the jebeesus out of ya. Sounds like that's what happened (not the female hitbox thing)

 

[Raidenwins]

Greetings fellow Raiden players! After a self imposed five months absence from TYM, in order to avoid spoilers for MK11 (which, much like in MKX, was totally worth it), I am back on the forums. Looking forward to learning Raiden, yet again, and sharing tips and tricks with you all.

So far I find Raiden difficult and kind of confusing. MK11 Raiden is a world of difference from MKX Thunder God Raiden. I miss my flashy lightning strings, B3, 2 low combo starter, and simple but effective 50/50s. Plus I miss the universal neutral jump punch pop-ups and the run button, though this isn't Raiden specific. It made for a fast and furious kombat that was fun to play and watch. MK11 Raiden is more akin to MK9 Raiden, including the difficult combo execution.

I do like that you can create your own variations by picking which special moves are available to Raiden.

I struggle with connecting Air Electric Fly after jump kick following Storm Cell (AMP). Any tips on that?

 

[Mandolore1123]

Greetings fellow Raiden players! After a self imposed five months absence from TYM, in order to avoid spoilers for MK11 (which, much like in MKX, was totally worth it), I am back on the forums. Looking forward to learning Raiden, yet again, and sharing tips and tricks with you all.

So far I find Raiden difficult and kind of confusing. MK11 Raiden is a world of difference from MKX Thunder God Raiden. I miss my flashy lightning strings, B3, 2 low combo starter, and simple but effective 50/50s. Plus I miss the universal neutral jump punch pop-ups and the run button, though this isn't Raiden specific. It made for a fast and furious kombat that was fun to play and watch. MK11 Raiden is more akin to MK9 Raiden, including the difficult combo execution.

I do like that you can create your own variations by picking which special moves are available to Raiden.

I struggle with connecting Air Electric Fly after jump kick following Storm Cell (AMP). Any tips on that?

I enjoy him now much more than in MKXL. His thunder wave variation has the best of everything (teleports for mobility and storm cell for combos). I use deep ji2 into ji4~bf3 after amplified storm cell. For female characters deep ji2 into f4~bf3 is more consistent if you start off b12. He’s not difficult in combo execution I feel. But he plays very defensively and punishes people who make mistakes with his abundance of forward advancing moves.

 

[DarksydeDash]

So I ran a set with a friend who was playing scorpion.

Gotta say, Scorpion looks like a bad MU. He full combo punishes df2 from anywhere with his teleport and he can do the safe on reaction with superman cancels. We can stay safe from it by cancelling immediately but then you give up your turn because you don't get as much distance as possible.

His D4 low profiles all our jump ins, and b12 which really hurts.

What do you all think?

 

[samiorfali]

Raiden's b12 to the teleport!
it has a small window to do it, but it is feasible.

 

[samiorfali]

So is Raiden's main whiff punisher B31 or F4?

F3 then storm cell if near is basically it.
121 do trigger crushing blow. its 7 frame fast but its a high (do it once).
F4 for long distance punish its a 19 frame, then do a storm cell for full combo.

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

db3 after you set up the buff (also db3) and loaded it by blocking 3 hits. Has to be amped though for damage and safety, its -5 ON HIT if you dont AMP it. But that move has

4f startup
is a reversal
MID
sweep range
extends hitbox above your character and to midscreen on both sides with the consecutive hits from AMP
does not need to connect to be AMPed
amped does ~170 damage (with 3 hits)
AMPed knocks fullscreen
allows to set up the buff right again after hit

you can win whole matches by only blocking and doing this move

Can you explain this in more detail for the idiots like myself?

Db3 is his move that charges up his hands and gives his low staff special a ground projectile right?

How does that reversal anything?

 

[DDutchguy]

Can you explain this in more detail for the idiots like myself?

Db3 is his move that charges up his hands and gives his low staff special a ground projectile right?

How does that reversal anything?

DB3 has three parts:

• If it has not been activated yet, DB3 gives Raiden lightning hands that reduce chip damage. If you block 3 hits while this mode is activated, you will be charged up. When not charged up, pressing DB3 again does nothing.
• Once you're charged up, you can press DB3 again for a discharge that does damage. Does a couple % on block and 13.4% when amplified. The main draw that it has 4 frames of startup (3 on reversal), making it the fastest move in the game. Amplified discharge is also safe on block at -5.
• Side-note, when DB3 is active it gives his DB4 low staff move a projectile. You don't need to be charged up for this to happen.

To give you an idea of the theoretical potential for discharge, I looked at Sub-Zero's strings yesterday. Only his 12 and 33 strings are unpunishable if you do reversal discharge. 33 may still be punishable actually depending on how big the gap is in that string.

 

[kabelfritz]

Can you explain this in more detail for the idiots like myself?

Db3 is his move that charges up his hands and gives his low staff special a ground projectile right?

How does that reversal anything?

if you block three hits while its on, you can discharge it with db3 again, which will be a 4f special move. you see that its up when raidens arms have electricity on them, and when its loaded his full upper body has.

 

[kabelfritz]

DB3 has three parts:

• If it has not been activated yet, DB3 gives Raiden lightning hands that reduce chip damage. If you block 3 hits while this mode is activated, you will be charged up. When not charged up, pressing DB3 again does nothing.
• Once you're charged up, you can press DB3 again for a discharge that does damage. Does a couple % on block and 13.4% when amplified. The main draw that it has 4 frames of startup (3 on reversal), making it the fastest move in the game. Amplified discharge is also safe on block at -5.
• Side-note, when DB3 is active it gives his DB4 low staff move a projectile. You don't need to be charged up for this to happen.

To give you an idea of the theoretical potential for discharge, I looked at Sub-Zero's strings yesterday. Only his 12 and 33 strings are unpunishable if you do reversal discharge. 33 may still be punishable actually depending on how big the gap is in that string.

has anyone actually testet if db3 (whats the name of that move anyway?) does affect anything else than db 4, also outside hit tournament variations?

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

if you block three hits while its on, you can discharge it with db3 again, which will be a 4f special move. you see that its up when raidens arms have electricity on them, and when its loaded his full upper body has.

Thanks man!

I was in practice mode trying to do amplified db3 or regular discharge and db3 was doing nothing after the first time pressed. Didn't know you had to block 3 hits!

 

[DDutchguy]

has anyone actually testet if db3 (whats the name of that move anyway?) does affect anything else than db 4, also outside hit tournament variations?

I don't think any other moves are affected, definitely not DF2 in the Raijin variation which I labbed. I'm pretty sure that move is literally useless.

 

[kabelfritz]

I don't think any other moves are affected, definitely not DF2 in the Raijin variation which I labbed. I'm pretty sure that move is literally useless.

it has some utility...

you can catch people off guard by linking a poke or a string into it, d4~bf2 even pushes far enough away that it should be safe against most of the cast.
i also use it as ender for grounded combos, just in case i miss a punish, its less unsafe than bf3