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Lord Raiden General Discussion Thread

Cosmic Forge

Cosmic Forge

Practice mode noob
Wow yeah, his channel is deleted. I wonder if he was streaming before the embargo was lifted. Damn. Does he have a YT? If he pops back up i'll drop his link here.
 
kabelfritz

kabelfritz

Master
in case you didnt know, you can bf3 from short hop. up to 2/3 screen that even punishes cassies low shot. also th KB doesnt require max range but a step less.
 
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Cosmic Forge

Cosmic Forge

Practice mode noob
ruthlezz97 said:
Hello good people,I really enjoy playing Raiden and I am new to fighting games and would like to learn,can you recommend me someone who plays Raiden well if there are people who actually do since its 4 days into official release of the game.
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and

Are both streaming Raiden vs gameplay at the moment, for what it's worth.
 
BRAZILIAN SHEEP

BRAZILIAN SHEEP

Apprentice
Hi Guys.
I spent some time in the lab and I was happy at first because I thought Raiden was viable and had good options at far and mid range. But after discovering some detail about his db2 on block ( which clould make him viable) and fighting against some jaqui / jax / sub zero players, I have to assume that he is not viable, unfortunately.
His recovery from the zoning in far range is sooo slow, and even chars that have better ofensive options overcome Raiden ( like sub zero for ex).
Look at jaqui for ex: I land df2 at far range and ahe blocks. All she needs is just to press a button to give me a punch in the face with crushing blow. And now...she is near me....and dood....almost all of his buttons are high and do not have good frames, so...we assume that he has to be far away...but he can't do it effectively right now.

His db2 on block could save him since is -3 on block and has a pushback, but the last hit is a HIGH. So.....you're fucked if you want to use him right now.

He is soo cool in this game.....how unfortunate that is. I'll stay with sub zero.
 
Pronto

Pronto

Montreal's reckoning
BRAZILIAN SHEEP said:
Hi Guys.
I spent some time in the lab and I was happy at first because I thought Raiden was viable and had good options at far and mid range. But after discovering some detail about his db2 on block ( which clould make him viable) and fighting against some jaqui / jax / sub zero players, I have to assume that he is not viable, unfortunately.
His recovery from the zoning in far range is sooo slow, and even chars that have better ofensive options overcome Raiden ( like sub zero for ex).
Look at jaqui for ex: I land df2 at far range and ahe blocks. All she needs is just to press a button to give me a punch in the face with crushing blow. And now...she is near me....and dood....almost all of his buttons are high and do not have good frames, so...we assume that he has to be far away...but he can't do it effectively right now.

His db2 on block could save him since is -3 on block and has a pushback, but the last hit is a HIGH. So.....you're fucked if you want to use him right now.

He is soo cool in this game.....how unfortunate that is. I'll stay with sub zero.
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I disagree with a lot of this.

First, after week 1 you probably won't be able to get away with Storm Cell (db2) on block because people will figure out how to punish it consistently. It's something you should be hit-confirming generally. It might catch people trying to counterpoke but it is definitely not a safe or reliable thing to do on block if your opponent knows what's up.

Second, his pokes are definitely workable. His d1, d2, d3, and d4 are all decent buttons. On hit you can enforce your frames with his godlike F3 (super fast mid that's decent for checking counterpokes, staggering into throw, and neutral in general) or choose to walk back and whiff punish a counterpoke. It bears mentioning that his B1 is good, staggerable mid as well.

His buttons for whiff punishing are quite good tool, and in this game that matters a ton. F4 is a safe, far-reaching mid that can be hit-confirmed into db2 for good damage, or even cancelled into teleport on block (though I haven't tested exactly how safe this is) if you wanna be a little tricksy. F1,1 checks movement quite decently too.

You have to think of his zoning moves as a part of his total neutral kit. Combined with the threat of a teleport and the great range of some his normals ( F4, F2, F1) I think his zoning is worth respecting. DF2 trades okay too.
 
Mahjunia

Mahjunia

Noob
ruthlezz97 said:
TrueTalent is so good with Raiden,now I am even more motivated to get good at him.
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Hell no, truetalent aint't good at all. He was an average player in MKX and that's It. He's a good entertainer and content creator, when he focused to improve he fought hand to hand against high level players.

I've watched the 6hs and I advice to not take him as an example because he commits a lot of mistakes and lost to a subzero spamming the oh string...
 
Sutter Pain

Sutter Pain

Your mothers main.
Have pretty much only played Raiden so far and I am on PC so no hotfix which sucks but I am having a blast with him. His combos are fun and easy and do good damage. He has pretty decent whiff punish, good range on his short hop 4 and tp gimmicks are fun. I dont like his crushing blows or fatal blow though, regardless I think I will stick with him untill NW drops.
 
Mandolore1123

Mandolore1123

Man of Science Who Wields the Living Lightning
Pronto said:
I disagree with a lot of this.

First, after week 1 you probably won't be able to get away with Storm Cell (db2) on block because people will figure out how to punish it consistently. It's something you should be hit-confirming generally. It might catch people trying to counterpoke but it is definitely not a safe or reliable thing to do on block if your opponent knows what's up.

Second, his pokes are definitely workable. His d1, d2, d3, and d4 are all decent buttons. On hit you can enforce your frames with his godlike F3 (super fast mid that's decent for checking counterpokes, staggering into throw, and neutral in general) or choose to walk back and whiff punish a counterpoke. It bears mentioning that his B1 is good, staggerable mid as well.

His buttons for whiff punishing are quite good tool, and in this game that matters a ton. F4 is a safe, far-reaching mid that can be hit-confirmed into db2 for good damage, or even cancelled into teleport on block (though I haven't tested exactly how safe this is) if you wanna be a little tricksy. F1,1 checks movement quite decently too.

You have to think of his zoning moves as a part of his total neutral kit. Combined with the threat of a teleport and the great range of some his normals ( F4, F2, F1) I think his zoning is worth respecting. DF2 trades okay too.
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I can’t seem to counter poke after people do d1 on block though, I’m pretty sure I should be able to beat them, I can’t even do f3 after d3 :(. I think it’s help if he wasn’t -6 on both f3 and f32, since anyone can and should be poking out of it or grabbing afterwards, meaning you always lose your turn. Though I think the way to go seems to be electric fly cancels on block and storm cell on hit. Or cancel into far teleport to switch positions to keep zoning
 
Gruntypants

Gruntypants

THE MUFFINS ARE BEEFY
It was fun using raiden the first couple of days but he's lacking excellence in any part of his offense. Looking forward to playing him again when the character balance patch hits PC because right now he has like 1 good string and his mid is punishable. Really disappointed that you can't cancel blockstrings with teleports at all. Special cancelling in this game is very limited and it's disappointing, MK9 did it perfectly.
 
Cosmic Forge

Cosmic Forge

Practice mode noob
If people are spamming d+1, all you have to do is block one then hold back for a split second. The natural walkback speed puts you out of range of their next d+1 and you have time to press 1,2 (while still holding back to get b+1,2) to whiff punish.

Raiden's b+3,1 string is -6 and safe with lots of pushback. Not bad for a hitconfirmable low launcher.
They do need to fix something about b+3,1 though. If only the 1 hits, the 2+4 low spark ender flies under them.

Raiden's f+1,1 is a good high poke string with range, -6 but leaves you close. If they're prone to poking after blocking, this is perfect bait for Flawless Block.

3,2 is -3, which is more Flawless block bait if they like to press buttons. There's the 1 finisher, but there's a gap in the string. You can bait them with 3,2,b,f+3(hold) and block confirm to see if they're trying to interrupt the last hit, and release the 3 for a whiff punisher or press d,d to cancel into safety.

F2 and F4 are both -3, yet more Flawless block bait.

Stormcell just isn't something you have to dial-a-combo with. You have more than enough time to hit confirm if you need to do d,b+2 after most 2 hit strings.

TL;DR Raiden is a punish based character, with tools to draw the opponent out of their turtle shell with feints, cancels, teleports. And of course, block and whiff punishment has to be on point to maximize on baiting. That's his style. Similar to Yoshimitsu in Tekken really. Not meant to mixup or do 50/50s so much as frustrate the opponent into mistakes and punishing.

But yeah I still definitely agree that block confirming into teleport is a pain in the ass. Hell, even earlier when I was practicing block into short hop, I would block a move in crouch then release block and hold up and Raiden would teleport. Like... wut? Needs work.
 
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BRAZILIAN SHEEP

BRAZILIAN SHEEP

Apprentice
Pronto said:
Hahaha, guys – the jig is up:
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1122278507709468672

Learn to hit-confirm it or face the consequences, folks. Let's move beyond week 1 tactics. It might catch some counterpokes now and then but it's definitely not worth the hard commit.
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That's what I'm talking about. Since he is shit in close range....what is the utility for the f3, f4....only wiff punish I think.
If you do f3 or f4 on block without any cancel, you're fucked. Every single button is a high in close range and not fast enough.
This cancel with electric fly doesn't aeem viable too.....

The worst part is that he seems to be projeced to run away all the time....but he is not dhalsim and he is not in street fighter.
 
Evil Canadian

Evil Canadian

G O K U
Elder God
BRAZILIAN SHEEP said:
Every single button is a high in close range and not fast enough.
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With the exception of like, Jacqui, every <10f move is a high or a poke. That said to raiden has one of the better mids in the game in back 12 as its 11f start and its a strong whiff punish button.

Its technically punishable on block but you can superman cancel it for guaranteed safety and range. On top of mindgames of you holding it if they try to take their turn right away.

Raiden is meant to be a neutral character

back12
f11
b31

all have strong and good range, hit confirmable, good whiff punsihers/shimmy moves and are full combo starters, b31 is a low as well with exceptionally strong pushback on block

f2 which has incredible range jails into b31 as well which means they have to respect it, which opens up throws/b2 gimmicks as well

I feel like I am saying this a lot on TYM lately but Raiden period is period good period.
 
kabelfritz

kabelfritz

Master
Cosmic Forge said:
If people are spamming d+1, all you have to do is block one then hold back for a split second. The natural walkback speed puts you out of range of their next d+1 and you have time to press 1,2 (while still holding back to get b+1,2) to whiff punish.

Raiden's b+3,1 string is -6 and safe with lots of pushback. Not bad for a hitconfirmable low launcher.
They do need to fix something about b+3,1 though. If only the 1 hits, the 2+4 low spark ender flies under them.

Raiden's f+2,2 is a good high poke string with range, -6 but leaves you close. If they're prone to poking after blocking, this is perfect bait for Flawless Block.

3,2 is -3, which is more Flawless block bait if they like to press buttons. There's the 1 finisher, but there's a gap in the string. You can bait them with 3,2,b,f+3(hold) and block confirm to see if they're trying to interrupt the last hit, and release the 3 for a whiff punisher or press d,d to cancel into safety.

F2 and F4 are both -3, yet more Flawless block bait.

Stormcell just isn't something you have to dial-a-combo with. You have more than enough time to hit confirm if you need to do d,b+2 after most 2 hit strings.

TL;DR Raiden is a punish based character, with tools to draw the opponent out of their turtle shell with feints, cancels, teleports. And of course, block and whiff punishment has to be on point to maximize on baiting. That's his style. Similar to Yoshimitsu in Tekken really. Not meant to mixup or do 50/50s so much as frustrate the opponent into mistakes and punishing.

But yeah I still definitely agree that block confirming into teleport is a pain in the ass. Hell, even earlier when I was practicing block into short hop, I would block a move in crouch then release block and hold up and Raiden would teleport. Like... wut? Needs work.
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agree on everything, just 2 mistakes: there is no f22 string and f4 is-5. if you mean f11, thats also -5

i find it annoying that people complain about raidens viability because he is not a "potato"

BRAZILIAN SHEEP said:
That's what I'm talking about. Since he is shit in close range....what is the utility for the f3, f4....only wiff punish I think.
If you do f3 or f4 on block without any cancel, you're fucked. Every single button is a high in close range and not fast enough.
This cancel with electric fly doesn't aeem viable too.....

The worst part is that he seems to be projeced to run away all the time....but he is not dhalsim and he is not in street fighter.
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f3 is really good. if you mix up f32, f3 throw and f3-f3 they can only guess.
 
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Marinjuana

Marinjuana

Up rock incoming, ETA 5 minutes
Quick Charge is a buff that makes Raiden take 50% less chip, it buffs his Electric Current special(maybe others IDK) and it gives him access to "Discharge" after blocking 3 attacks when he gets buffed. I believe Discharge is the fastest reversal in the game at 4 frame startup. I made a little video to show off a viable use of it, with Frost's DF2 which is -5. Cool move.

 
Mandolore1123

Mandolore1123

Man of Science Who Wields the Living Lightning
kabelfritz said:
agree on everything, just 2 mistakes: there is no f22 string and f4 is-5. if you mean f11, thats also -5
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f4 is -3, b4 is -5

Evil Canadian said:
f2 which has incredible range jails into b31 as well which means they have to respect it, which opens up throws/b2 gimmicks as well
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How does f2 jail into b31? Isn't f2 minus? I thought the only normal that was plus on block was s3 at +3, and 321 at +1?
 
Mandolore1123

Mandolore1123

Man of Science Who Wields the Living Lightning
buyacushun said:
pretty sure he means on hit. F2 is +18 on hit. B3 is 16i. So you'd whiff punish/catch walk back with F2 now you get B3. Do that until they respect a low is coming now you do other stuff.
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Wouldn't f4 be better in every way for whiff-punishing? It's faster at 19f and a mid, with the same range. Even in combos f2 and f4 do the same damage with the difference being f2 has a better upward collision so sometimes you can link f2 easier than f4. I don't remember the hit advantage of f4 off the top of my head though so maybe that +18 is all you need for justify f2 :/
 
buyacushun

buyacushun

Normalize grab immunity.
Mandolore1123 said:
Wouldn't f4 be better in every way for whiff-punishing? It's faster at 19f and a mid, with the same range. Even in combos f2 and f4 do the same damage with the difference being f2 has a better upward collision so sometimes you can link f2 easier than f4. I don't remember the hit advantage of f4 off the top of my head though so maybe that +18 is all you need for justify f2 :/
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F4 is +5. So there ya go. You want mega hit stun go with F2
 
buyacushun

buyacushun

Normalize grab immunity.
Anyone really look into Raiden's buttons for AA? Idk what the hitbox hurtbox looks like but I can get all basic standing buttons to hit jumping dummy in training. His 3 and 4 hit pretty high. Even got S3 to hit the dummy jumping but Raiden didn't switch directions. Haven't tested it in a game scenario.
 
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