Lord Raiden General Discussion Thread

[Mandolore1123]

I'm not saying Lightning Storm is broke, but man that move sure seems to offer a lot of utility. Maybe I'm not totally understanding, but l think of it like this:

You basically gain a roughly 15-18 frame mid projectile that pushes Raiden back and lets him maintain space to harass the opponent. You gain an overhead with great range that's -4 on block (-1 on block if it crosses up) that can stuff wakeups. If Raiden uses the Amp attack it starts up in 6 frames and on hit combos into the Overhead or projectile. Raiden can use moves like B1, F4, or F2 cancelled into Lighting Strom - AMP- Overhead for essentially safe pressure at the cost of a bar, and if it hits you get around 15%-18% damage.

So if you're playing TW, you could basically give up Teleport, but in return gain better zoning, better wakeup pressure, safe pressure, and then you could also throw in a move like Rolling Thunder for some DOT, or Lighting Rod for some chip/possible setups, or quick charge for some discharge or corner restand potential.

Same thing for Raijin, you could give up Electric Burst, but gain the projectile, wakeup pressure, and safe pressure.

Again, not saying Lighting Storm is some OP game changer, but I could see it being a solid option to mix into some variations.

Link from the Raiden Discord, might help with your labbing
https://www.reddit.com/r/RaidenMs/comments/hz4fe0

 

[Mandolore1123]

I will definitely look into a Float, Quick Charge and electric current loadout if they buff float as a general use loadout and then switch to TW for mobility or maybe an extra setup variation with a buffed rod

 

[Marlow]

@Mandolore1123 Thanks for the info! I figured some of that stuff with Lightning Storm was too good to be true.

 

[Mandolore1123]

@Mandolore1123 Thanks for the info! I figured some of that stuff with Lightning Storm was too good to be true.

Here’s a video of someone using the move (albeit very un-optimally). B12~DU AMP~1 does like 13% can doing B12~DU~3 will make Raiden side switch. I don’t think float will be a major factor in zoning but if they keep the frame data for the AMP and the overhead kick then I would argue it will be a superior way to be safe since you mentioned cross-up over head kick is only -1. At the moment I’m most curious about a block sequence of B12~DU AMP~3 (chip, damage on hit, frames etc), but labbing now is probably not going to be too productive because the patch probably will change a lot of things.

I will say though, if they really REALLY buff the AMP we should be able to do something like B12~DU AMP~4 (the cancel), into a 243~DB2 for like 25% unbreakable damage for a bar (will also look amazingly swag). I think if they give me this + genuine safety off the block string I mentioned then this will be a very very powerful variation. But of course we have to wait and see...

 

[Marlow]

Making the 4 (cancel) better would be nice. They could speed it up but make it cost a defense bar (or even defense + offense) or something just to compensate. I think it'd be a fair trade, you're burning a lot of resources but getting a potential mix out of it.

I was reading through that reddit post and checked out a few Lightning Rod videos. One of them used Rod in conjunction with Super Bolt. They basically did knockdown into amped rod into Super Bolt. That could be something to keep an eye on with the buff to Super Bolt. Could offer a way to lock the opponent in place and have a safe way to meaty. Depends on frames and matchups, obviously.

I wonder what a Super Bolt, Lightning Rod, Lightning Storm would look like. Do B12-DB4-AMP and then follow up with either charged Super Bolt or DU~1, or maybe even DU~3. Like I said before I'm pretty sure if DU~3 hits the opponent into the bubble it re-stands the opponent.

 

[Marlow]

Ugh, I'm supposed to be working right now and it's a busy day at work but I just want to lab MK11.

 

[DarksydeDash]

Jo Push has the potential to be really good but they need to fix it's stupid whiffing issues. I could also see it being a powerful zoning tool as well but it would need some pushback on block.

 

[Marlow]

Jo Push has the potential to be really good but they need to fix it's stupid whiffing issues. I could also see it being a powerful zoning tool as well but it would need some pushback on block.

I just think it ends up being a bit redundant compared to Raiden's other launchers. It does less damage, takes away a valuable move in Electric Fly, and you can't use it with any of Raiden's other good custom moves. I just think they need to figure out something to add to Jo Push to make it worth giving up teleport and better damage.

 

[DarksydeDash]

I just think it ends up being a bit redundant compared to Raiden's other launchers. It does less damage, takes away a valuable move in Electric Fly, and you can't use it with any of Raiden's other good custom moves. I just think they need to figure out something to add to Jo Push to make it worth giving up teleport and better damage.

Other than damage, what do you think should be done for it?

 

[Marlow]

Other than damage, what do you think should be done for it?

Not sure. Maybe something where it eats the opponents projectiles, or Raiden essentially disappears during the Jo Push animation and can't be hit until the active frames are done and he teleports back to the staff on amp, or re-appears back in the same place if he doesn't amp. So he'd still be punishable, but it would let him counter zone. I could see something like that being a decent tradeoff for Storm Cell and Teleport. Raiden gets less damage but can still counter zone, and gets to keep Summon Lightning for the armor break, anti air, and knockdown ability.

 

[Black Chapters]

Jo Push was simply a bad idea in general.

 

[Mandolore1123]

Making the 4 (cancel) better would be nice. They could speed it up but make it cost a defense bar (or even defense + offense) or something just to compensate. I think it'd be a fair trade, you're burning a lot of resources but getting a potential mix out of it.

I was reading through that reddit post and checked out a few Lightning Rod videos. One of them used Rod in conjunction with Super Bolt. They basically did knockdown into amped rod into Super Bolt. That could be something to keep an eye on with the buff to Super Bolt. Could offer a way to lock the opponent in place and have a safe way to meaty. Depends on frames and matchups, obviously.

I wonder what a Super Bolt, Lightning Rod, Lightning Storm would look like. Do B12-DB4-AMP and then follow up with either charged Super Bolt or DU~1, or maybe even DU~3. Like I said before I'm pretty sure if DU~3 hits the opponent into the bubble it re-stands the opponent.

I think it could be like Fujin’s Sky Wakka special in terms of utility, but they’d have to tweak the meter refill so it comes back faster. Though this is all wishful thinking, nothing to do but wait for NRS to make their move

 

[DarksydeDash]

I'm just throwing this out there but imagine if raiden could combo off of the projectiles when used with Lightning Rod.

Picture this: B12, bf1, (Lightning rod bounces the bolt off), b12, lightning bolt (+ on hit restand).

This would be a MASSIVE change for Lightning rod and would warrant using it, don't you all think?

 

[Black Chapters]

they won't do that

if this was X or 9 sure, but not 11

 

[Marlow]

I'm just throwing this out there but imagine if raiden could combo off of the projectiles when used with Lightning Rod.

Picture this: B12, bf1, (Lightning rod bounces the bolt off), b12, lightning bolt (+ on hit restand).

This would be a MASSIVE change for Lightning rod and would warrant using it, don't you all think?

That would be cool. Right now if the rod is out you can already do some moves/combos into +5 restand. I think @ElectricHat has some on his YT channel. I'd be happy if they just increased the amount of time the un-amped rod was left on screen, to something like 10-15 seconds. That way a Raiden player might actually have time to do a combo into Lightning Strike or Lightning Bolt and get rewarded with a restand. One of my biggest problems with the Rod move right now is goes away so quickly Raiden is forced to commit almost instantly to trying to use it.

He already has a way to re-call the rod, and while the rod is out he loses out on some pretty good moves (does he lose out on his FB?). It'd be a fun way to play Raiden, basically a tradeoff of some moves in the short term for some potential strong setups if he can get them.

 

[Marlow]

Depending what they do with Lightning Rod, I wonder how a Teleport/Lighting Rod load out would be. My biggest problem with Rod setups right now is because Raiden's projectiles are so slow the opponent can usually zone Raiden out when they're in the bubble simply by throwing a few projectiles at him.

But with teleport, Raiden can still counter zone, so the opponent might be a bit more hesitant to instantly throw a projectile knowing Raiden can just bamf in and punish. The hesitation could give Raiden the time he needs to start chipping away with his projectiles.

Also it lets Raiden keep his great mobility, while also letting him keep Summon Lightning. Again, combo potential is low in this build but he'd have some nice defensive options to go with some possible setups.

 

[Mandolore1123]

Depending what they do with Lightning Rod, I wonder how a Teleport/Lighting Rod load out would be. My biggest problem with Rod setups right now is because Raiden's projectiles are so slow the opponent can usually zone Raiden out when they're in the bubble simply by throwing a few projectiles at him.

But with teleport, Raiden can still counter zone, so the opponent might be a bit more hesitant to instantly throw a projectile knowing Raiden can just bamf in and punish. The hesitation could give Raiden the time he needs to start chipping away with his projectiles.

Also it lets Raiden keep his great mobility, while also letting him keep Summon Lightning. Again, combo potential is low in this build but he'd have some nice defensive options to go with some possible setups.

Summon lightning is probably the only knockdown where he has enough advantage to do a rod placement at close range. But in terms of slotting there really isn’t a way to combo into summon lightning unless you anti-air or do a raw 243, though I imagine F32 might do the trick. Fingers crossed for Monday. Either we’ll all be happy or we’ll get greatly disappointed with everyone getting shot up the tiers while we remain unchanged

 

[Marlow]

If it hits, he can do B12-amped Rod. Obviously not a ton of damage, but then he has some follow ups. He can dash and do D4 or F2/F4, go for a jump 3 into F4 Summon lightning, or go for a projectile. If he has teleport he can try and bait out a move from the opponent and punish.

He can also do B12-1+3 and then go for an amped rod. I'd have to check the safety on that, but it that's a safe setup it leaves him at F2/F4 distance like above.

21, B31, and 243 all combo into Summon Lightning.

Either we’ll all be happy or we’ll get greatly disappointed with everyone getting shot up the tiers while we remain unchanged

I'm mentally preparing myself for being disappointed. I'm hoping they fix some of his base kit issues (hitbox, improve frames) enough so that I can pick moves I think are fun and be able to compete well enough to have fun with those.

 

[Marlow]

though I imagine F32 might do the trick.

That's another knockdown, I would think that would work too.

 

[Mandolore1123]

I think they’ve already greatly improved his base kit. They even made B14 plus, which I didn’t expect but I’ll take it. While I dislike the emphasis it once again places on B1 and it’s follow ups, I’ll never object to buffs like that. Now all they need to do is fix S3, and do stuff like make lightning strike not full combo punishable from full screen for no reason, or at least make the amp safer on block from full screen. Otherwise it’s just how the customs work. IMO his base kit was always pretty good, besides F1 which is fixed now, and hopefully S3 soon.

 

[Marlow]

What if they made B31 non flawless blockable?

 

[Mandolore1123]

What if they made B31 non flawless blockable?

The string would be useable. We’d have a nice 16f low string with stupid amounts of push back and completely safe. Though it wouldn’t change the game plan all that much since Raiden’s always been more about B1/F3

 

[Szkarad]

IDK about the ranks you play guys, but where I'm at people will flawless block B31 if I use it often but if I mix if with B1 and F3 they rarely do. Also from time to time it feels so good to go B3 into a throw since it has a decent range but, unlike B31 it leaves you at touching distance.

 

[Marlow]

I'm at the rank where I do F32 5 times in a row because my opponent doesn't know how to wakeup or block an overhead, and then accuses me of spamming the same combo.

 

[Mandolore1123]

I'm at the rank where I do F32 5 times in a row because my opponent doesn't know how to wakeup or block an overhead, and then accuses me of spamming the same combo.

That’s like the best rank to be