Lord Raiden General Discussion Thread

[Black Chapters]

Then by this logic F1 should have still been terrible after it had gotten buffed because it had such a terrible hit box at launch

theres fixing a simple hitbox issue and then theres having a move that makes no sense from the ground up

 

[Mandolore1123]

theres fixing a simple hitbox issue and then theres having a move that makes no sense from the ground up

Or you can just let NRS patch the moves and see how they look after the patch before jumping to conclusions. They may still be trash, but it’ll be because the community has concrete facts to back it up, not because of conjecture based on assumptions.

 

[Black Chapters]

Or you can just let NRS patch the moves and see how they look after the patch before jumping to conclusions. They may still be trash, but it’ll be because the community has concrete facts to back it up, not because of conjecture based on assumptions.

no need, been going through this for over a decade

gets to a point where you can see they simply don't know how or don't want to do something

 

[Slymind]

I do agree that we must wait and see, but i do think superbolt still has no reason to be used, it replaces an ability that offers way more(corner carry, air combo, reliable combo ender, mobility and a crushing blow), it's arguably a "two slot" ability since it replaces, and you get very little for it(unless there is more to it...)

All of Raiden's most useful abilities are already official, but it will be interesting to see people mixing diferent stuff.

Rolling Thunder and Superbolt are in need of help the most, but i feel the flight one has potential as it is. I think they could work superbolt around the quick charge, maybe make it plus when you activate it.

 

[Black Chapters]

I do agree that we must wait and see, but i do think superbolt still has no reason to be used, it replaces an ability that offers way more(corner carry, air combo, reliable combo ender, mobility and a crushing blow), it's arguably a "two slot" ability since it replaces, and you get very little for it(unless there is more to it...)

All of Raiden's most useful abilities are already official, but it will be interesting to see people mixing diferent stuff.

Rolling Thunder and Superbolt are in need of help the most, but i feel the flight one has potential as it is. I think they could work superbolt around the quick charge, maybe make it plus when you activate it.

Lightning Storm is pretty terrible, he can be knocked out the air while floating by high projectiles and punished off either Lightning Attack out of it, I don't know why he wasn't just given air moves like everyone else. Theres no added advantage to teleporting first.

 

[Mandolore1123]

I do agree that we must wait and see, but i do think superbolt still has no reason to be used, it replaces an ability that offers way more(corner carry, air combo, reliable combo ender, mobility and a crushing blow), it's arguably a "two slot" ability since it replaces, and you get very little for it(unless there is more to it...)

All of Raiden's most useful abilities are already official, but it will be interesting to see people mixing diferent stuff.

Rolling Thunder and Superbolt are in need of help the most, but i feel the flight one has potential as it is. I think they could work superbolt around the quick charge, maybe make it plus when you activate it.

We can make the conclusions when the move comes out imo. I suspect NRS will change how many slots moves will cost too and prevent characters from getting an “ultimate” variation. Literally all the moves that aren’t in TW and Raijin are pretty trash, and I hope for Raiden’s same that his section in the patch notes is huge and full of buffs, especially making QC and rod interact with more different specials.

 

[Synesthesia Z]

Part of me still wishes like i did from the start that the AMP TP extends for a combo like it did in mkx! The move in it's current state is a BIG MEH

 

[Mandolore1123]

They need to make the other moves synergise with the moves in TW and Raijin better too, at the moment the synergy between the Raijin kit with QC and DF2 and DB4 is too good and unless there’s something significantly better that other options offer to cover weaknesses of base Raiden, then there’s not much reason to deviate from the current TW/Raijin loadouts. Then again, if they are willing to make B14 plus and buff super bolt, I’m sure they’ll have at least tried to look at every single custom move and bring them up to par.

 

[Darth Mao]

I'm naming my variation Thunder Rolls after the Garth Brooks song. Rolling Thunder, Lightning Storm, and Lightning Rod.

Raging Storm:
Storm Cell (for combos)
Quick Charge (6f Reversal and restand)
Lighting Rod (setups will be a thing with the new delayed wakeup system)

 

[Marlow]

Do we want to start a specific "Raiden Custom Variation" thread? Maybe something where we can try and keep track of certain variations people come up , and discuss/post gameplans/new combos/misc?

 

[Mandolore1123]

Do we want to start a specific "Raiden Custom Variation" thread? Maybe something where we can try and keep track of certain variations people come up , and discuss/post gameplans/new combos/misc?

I think it’s definitely a good idea, maybe make a new combo thread and separate tech thread so people won’t have to wade through pages of discussion for certain nuggets of info? Or when the patch drops we can work on a breakdown of various useful custom moves for new players who want to build loadouts and it’ll be easier to compile essential information too

 

[Marlow]

I think it’s definitely a good idea, maybe make a new combo thread and separate tech thread so people won’t have to wade through pages of discussion for certain nuggets of info? Or when the patch drops we can work on a breakdown of various useful custom moves for new players who want to build loadouts and it’ll be easier to compile essential information too

Yeah, I'll think about setting up a thread once we get the actual patch notes, or maybe even wait until the patch goes live. Who knows how some of the other moves might get tweaked. Depending on inputs/slot cost Raiden might have some slightly different options.

 

[Marlow]

I'm thinking Raiden likely isn't going to end up with anything too crazy. More likely it's going to be a way to take Raijin or TW and tweak it to one's personal style.

Current thoughts:

I'm thinking Storm Cell + Lightning Rod is likely where the most potential for setups is going to be. You could then mix in Lightning Storm or Rolling Thunder for some different utility.

I could see Super Bolt being useful in Raijin in place of Electric Burst. Super Bolt has nice range, offers a decent stagger now, and if it's safe on charge it gives Raijin a way to get in from a further distance.

I think Lightning Storm could be a solid move for wakeup pressure. It offers a safe overhead, and if you hit them with the Amp you can combo into the overhead. So you could do a string into knockdown and immediately go for Lighting Storm - amp - overhead and they'd likely only be able to hold the pressure. Or you could do something like B12-BF1 (leaving the opponent standing and Raiden +9) and then immediately go into Lightning Storm - amp - overhead. I think that's a frame trap, although further testing is needed to confirm. I also noticed yesterday that if you're using Lightning Rod, and you put out the amped rod and then hit the opponent with the Lightning Strike overhead it actually re-stands the opponent instead of knocking them down.

 

[Mandolore1123]

I'm thinking Raiden likely isn't going to end up with anything too crazy. More likely it's going to be a way to take Raijin or TW and tweak it to one's personal style.

Current thoughts:

I'm thinking Storm Cell + Lightning Rod is likely where the most potential for setups is going to be. You could then mix in Lightning Storm or Rolling Thunder for some different utility.

I could see Super Bolt being useful in Raijin in place of Electric Burst. Super Bolt has nice range, offers a decent stagger now, and if it's safe on charge it gives Raijin a way to get in from a further distance.

I think Lightning Storm could be a solid move for wakeup pressure. It offers a safe overhead, and if you hit them with the Amp you can combo into the overhead. So you could do a string into knockdown and immediately go for Lighting Storm - amp - overhead and they'd likely only be able to hold the pressure. Or you could do something like B12-BF1 (leaving the opponent standing and Raiden +9) and then immediately go into Lightning Storm - amp - overhead. I think that's a frame trap, although further testing is needed to confirm. I also noticed yesterday that if you're using Lightning Rod, and you put out the amped rod and then hit the opponent with the Lightning Strike overhead it actually re-stands the opponent instead of knocking them down.

I think that Raiden suffers from some intrinsic problems that some other characters suffer less. His base moves all get replaced by custom moves, so players have to make a choice and give up something to obtain that custom move (best launcher storm cell VS best knockdown summon lightning for example, if you pick storm cell you lose the +51 and vice versa), and that makes his custom variations very limited, and his most useful move teleport is 2 slots, meaning TW will always exist in the new meta unless they change something big.

Raijin’s synergy of QC, electric burst and electric current is unparalleled because literally QC changes nothing with other moves (which I hope changes with the coming patch)

While super bolt has been buffed, from the stream I saw 16 bit have to hold the move for like 11f (startup from 26 —> 37) before it’s safe and the pushback isn’t great. If this is the only change it receives then it’s not very likely that you would choose it over fly anyways because at least fly cancels give you space and super bolt cancels are even more minus than fly cancels

I completely agree that float should be explored more and I really hope this is another way to obtain some gapless safety (or at least something that opponent’s can’t OS punish or something because right now B12~float is punishable by S1 anti-airs). My concern is that the travel path of the projectiles are highly specific and there are dead zones that the float can’t cover which limits it’s zoning and anti-zoning potential, not to mention he can’t do air fly off it so you’re stuck in slow motion in the air and ppl can very easily punish.

We’ll have to wait and see, all while praying to every elder god that Raiden gets significant changes to his Kustom moves so he can be on par with characters like Noob, Kabal, and Cetrion.

 

[Marlow]

I think that Raiden suffers from some intrinsic problems that some other characters suffer less. His base moves all get replaced by custom moves, so players have to make a choice and give up something to obtain that custom move (best launcher storm cell VS best knockdown summon lightning for example, if you pick storm cell you lose the +51 and vice versa), and that makes his custom variations very limited, and his most useful move teleport is 2 slots, meaning TW will always exist in the new meta unless they change something big.

For sure. Raiden's customs are all very much based around giving up something like the mobility of Teleport for some DOT and knockdown pressure options. Or combine the combo nature of Storm Cell with Quick Charge and Electric Burst for some safety and potential corner re-stand stuff. But you're right, as it stands now he doesn't really have anything too crazy or OP just sitting in his unused moves. Adding customs helps a lot of other characters much more than it helps Raiden, so in that regard he's likely going to slide down a bit in tier rankings.

 

[Mandolore1123]

For sure. Raiden's customs are all very much based around giving up something like the mobility of Teleport for some DOT and knockdown pressure options. Or combine the combo nature of Storm Cell with Quick Charge and Electric Burst for some safety and potential corner re-stand stuff. But you're right, as it stands now he doesn't really have anything too crazy or OP just sitting in his unused moves. Adding customs helps a lot of other characters much more than it helps Raiden, so in that regard he's likely going to slide down a bit in tier rankings.

It’s really sad too because if you put in QC and electric burst, there‘s currently no reason not to put in DB4 too because it gives better damage and doubles as a low projectile to give you better zoning.
At the moment all we can do it wait and see Hopefully Raiden has a very very long section in the patch notes

 

[Marlow]

I wonder if they'll change the cost of Jo Push. If they bring that down to just one slot then you could combine Jo Push and Teleport.

 

[Zviko]

I wonder if they'll change the cost of Jo Push. If they bring that down to just one slot then you could combine Jo Push and Teleport.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1324854565578182656

 

[Mandolore1123]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1324854565578182656

Rip

 

[Marlow]

Lol well that’s that.

 

[Slymind]

It's evident that some characters will benefit from this more than others. Raiden is one of those characters that will remain mostly the same imo. Thankfully, he is a pretty solid character already, but let's see how things develop.

 

[Black Chapters]

lol, well theres one

 

[Mandolore1123]

Jo push better be broken when the patch drops lol

 

[Black Chapters]

The only way Jo Push is of any worth is if its turned into a collection of normals that use the staff as well as changing his uppercut in the Jo Push Launch

 

[Marlow]

I'm not saying Lightning Storm is broke, but man that move sure seems to offer a lot of utility. Maybe I'm not totally understanding, but l think of it like this:

You basically gain a roughly 15-18 frame mid projectile that pushes Raiden back and lets him maintain space to harass the opponent. You gain an overhead with great range that's -4 on block (-1 on block if it crosses up) that can stuff wakeups. If Raiden uses the Amp attack it starts up in 6 frames and on hit combos into the Overhead or projectile. Raiden can use moves like B1, F4, or F2 cancelled into Lighting Strom - AMP- Overhead for essentially safe pressure at the cost of a bar, and if it hits you get around 15%-18% damage.

So if you're playing TW, you could basically give up Teleport, but in return gain better zoning, better wakeup pressure, safe pressure, and then you could also throw in a move like Rolling Thunder for some DOT, or Lighting Rod for some chip/possible setups, or quick charge for some discharge or corner restand potential.

Same thing for Raijin, you could give up Electric Burst, but gain the projectile, wakeup pressure, and safe pressure.

Again, not saying Lighting Storm is some OP game changer, but I could see it being a solid option to mix into some variations.