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Lord Raiden General Discussion Thread

Darth Mao

Your Tech is Mine! #RaidenForKP2
Not exactly a good MU at least for Raijin. He has very good normals that operate at the same range as we do, so we don't win at the neutral game. He zones us out with his superior fireball and his up-close game is pretty good too. He out damages us in V2. TW might do better but because it's inherently much more unsafe every mistake gets punished severely.
He out damages us in v1 too, it's so hard to deal with him 'cause we need to play very very clean. I'm trying v1 to gain more mobility, but it is still very difficult to force whiff against his long-range normals. Even looking for patterns it is still difficult to answer for the lack of a quick projectile.
 

Mandolore1123

Man of Science Who Wields the Living Lightning
He out damages us in v1 too, it's so hard to deal with him 'cause we need to play very very clean. I'm trying v1 to gain more mobility, but it is still very difficult to force whiff against his long-range normals. Even looking for patterns it is still difficult to answer for the lack of a quick projectile.
Sorry I should have clarified. Spawn only outdamages us in his second variation (the one with the charge), otherwise we win in the damage department. But every time he hits us he gets superb OKI and pressure either through the restand in V2 or through the various combo enders in V3 that always leave him at the perfect spacing. I haven't played enough against good spawn players with TW to help you with your specific situation, but in general we can D3 under his fireball and block the AMP to move in, probably use F11 and F4 for whiff punishing instead of B12. I can foresee that TW might have a pretty rough time because he has to burn through defence bar just to keep himself safe. Raijin does better at close range if you can navigate his projectiles. Hope this helped
 

Darth Mao

Your Tech is Mine! #RaidenForKP2
Sorry I should have clarified. Spawn only outdamages us in his second variation (the one with the charge), otherwise we win in the damage department. But every time he hits us he gets superb OKI and pressure either through the restand in V2 or through the various combo enders in V3 that always leave him at the perfect spacing. I haven't played enough against good spawn players with TW to help you with your specific situation, but in general we can D3 under his fireball and block the AMP to move in, probably use F11 and F4 for whiff punishing instead of B12. I can foresee that TW might have a pretty rough time because he has to burn through defence bar just to keep himself safe. Raijin does better at close range if you can navigate his projectiles. Hope this helped
I was considering Spawn's v2 too. My problem with f11 is that it's high (d2 KB), but i'm starting to use more to test. I'm still thinking about moving to Raijin, but it will be a struggle to deal with such strong zoning.
 

Mandolore1123

Man of Science Who Wields the Living Lightning
I was considering Spawn's v2 too. My problem with f11 is that it's high (d2 KB), but i'm starting to use more to test. I'm still thinking about moving to Raijin, but it will be a struggle to deal with such strong zoning.
At max distance I'm not sure if they can D2 through it, but I haven't tested yet. From experience on both ends of this move it's very hard to whiff punish because of the second hit. Have you used Raijin before? Spawn's zoning isn't that bad once you react to the fireball and D3. We can always recover in time to block the AMP (regardless of delay timing), and Spawn doesn't have a teleport to get out of the corner, so we can still walk him down. Once in the corner we can still Raiden him to death like every other character. Raijin also has the benefit of the armour break which is easy to pull off and gives guaranteed damage.
@Trustful_Whale plays both characters and is a better player than I am so can you give some input?
 

Darth Mao

Your Tech is Mine! #RaidenForKP2
At max distance I'm not sure if they can D2 through it, but I haven't tested yet. From experience on both ends of this move it's very hard to whiff punish because of the second hit. Have you used Raijin before? Spawn's zoning isn't that bad once you react to the fireball and D3. We can always recover in time to block the AMP (regardless of delay timing), and Spawn doesn't have a teleport to get out of the corner, so we can still walk him down. Once in the corner we can still Raiden him to death like every other character. Raijin also has the benefit of the armour break which is easy to pull off and gives guaranteed damage.
@Trustful_Whale plays both characters and is a better player than I am so can you give some input?
Oh, I already know about d3 as low profiling, Raiden can d4 too (I made a topic about it: https://testyourmight.com/threads/amplified-necro-blast-low-profiling.72903/#post-2624747 ). I switch to v1 as soon as the last patch came out, because it "Raiden" more then v2, but I'm very familiar with this variaton too. My only problem with Spawn's fireball is when I'm in 3/4-full screen range and my only option is walk-crouch without anything to contest but this is a matter of patience, so I can handle it because I'm already used to playing this type of game.

What really pisses me off is having to deal with the spacing (not to mention the need to play extremely clean or be punished severely while he can risk more and still safe with Ex Fireball).
 

Mandolore1123

Man of Science Who Wields the Living Lightning
Oh, I already know about d3 as low profiling, Raiden can d4 too (I made a topic about it: https://testyourmight.com/threads/amplified-necro-blast-low-profiling.72903/#post-2624747 ). I switch to v1 as soon as the last patch came out, because it "Raiden" more then v2, but I'm very familiar with this variaton too. My only problem with Spawn's fireball is when I'm in 3/4-full screen range and my only option is walk-crouch without anything to contest but this is a matter of patience, so I can handle it because I'm already used to playing this type of game.

What really pisses me off is having to deal with the spacing (not to mention the need to play extremely clean or be punished severely while he can risk more and still safe with Ex Fireball).
Yeah, it's definitely not a very good MU (like most of Raiden's MU in this game). I actually didn't know Raiden can D3 under the AMP fireball though. Is it consistent? Can we do it on reaction or is it just a guess wen Spawn will amp?
 

Darth Mao

Your Tech is Mine! #RaidenForKP2
Yeah, it's definitely not a very good MU (like most of Raiden's MU in this game). I actually didn't know Raiden can D3 under the AMP fireball though. Is it consistent? Can we do it on reaction or is it just a guess wen Spawn will amp?
Sadly it's pure guess due to delayed version
 
I've only played this matchup from the Spawn side against Mando's Raijin so I don't really know what more I can offer to this discussion tbh.
It's definitely a tough gig for Raiden whenever a character has longer buttons than him, but d4 should be pretty helpful in combating Spawn's s3 but I haven't really tested that specifically to see if the spacing is practical or not.

I actually didn't know Raiden can D3 under the AMP fireball though.
If I'm not mistaken, everyone but about 5 characters can d3 under it which is basically all the tall guys like Kotal, Spawn, Shao, etc.
 

Szkarad

Noob
Hi, it's not really Raiden-exclusive question, but how do you train to enforce pressure when you're plus? In raiden's case mostly after F2 because 321 isn't that great with its huge-ass gap. Online I sometimes get poked after F2 (which is +2 I believe) even if I try to poke too.
 

Marlow

Premium
Premium Supporter
Hi, it's not really Raiden-exclusive question, but how do you train to enforce pressure when you're plus? In raiden's case mostly after F2 because 321 isn't that great with its huge-ass gap. Online I sometimes get poked after F2 (which is +2 I believe) even if I try to poke too.
I used to go into training mode against a character with a fast special move (Johnny Cage's shoulder thing, or Jacqui's Grease Kick) and set the CPU to Block All and Reversal. Then I'd practice doing something like F2 into D1. You'd have to double check to make the match work on the plus frames and the move you have the CPU do.

I think now you can have the CPU reversal with normals, although I haven't actually tried that yet.