Lord Raiden General Discussion Thread

[Szkarad]

Hi, it's not really Raiden-exclusive question, but how do you train to enforce pressure when you're plus? In raiden's case mostly after F2 because 321 isn't that great with its huge-ass gap. Online I sometimes get poked after F2 (which is +2 I believe) even if I try to poke too.

 

[Marlow]

Hi, it's not really Raiden-exclusive question, but how do you train to enforce pressure when you're plus? In raiden's case mostly after F2 because 321 isn't that great with its huge-ass gap. Online I sometimes get poked after F2 (which is +2 I believe) even if I try to poke too.

I used to go into training mode against a character with a fast special move (Johnny Cage's shoulder thing, or Jacqui's Grease Kick) and set the CPU to Block All and Reversal. Then I'd practice doing something like F2 into D1. You'd have to double check to make the match work on the plus frames and the move you have the CPU do.

I think now you can have the CPU reversal with normals, although I haven't actually tried that yet.

 

[Mandolore1123]

Interesting video about certain gaps in strings the Raiden can teleport out of. Something to keep in mind. And with the buffed hit box of F1 we can punish lots of stuff like Geras sand trap from mid screen (which is also applicable to Raijin since Geras players love doing reversal sand trap after they block DF2)

 

[NeroOps]

Here's a couple of changes i'll like to see raiden 3rd variation truth & light receive:
-BF3 amplify while back towards corner needs adjusting on the second hit.
Some times the teleport doesn't push raiden forward enough where the second hit
connects.(might be caused because of camera)
BF3 amplify when opponent is pushed towards the corner has similar whiffing issue.

-DB2 shoudn't push the opponent fullscreen away only the amplified version or vice versa with the normal version.
Makes it very difficult in matches against zoner characters since that variation can't teleport
close to the opponent.

-DB4 should be more plus on hit when raiden uses DF2 or BF1 to redirect the
lightning strike with his pole.
The amplified version of DB4 should gradually give off little sparks within the lightning sphere
over certain frames that hits the opponent so the opponent can't stall or counter with zoning
attacks. If that's too much give it unblockable damage over time.

 

[Trustful_Whale]

I just found an OS for TW mix.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1296366487771312128

 

[Mandolore1123]

I just found an OS for TW mix.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1296366487771312128

Can we have some Fs for Raiden

 

[Marlow]

I just found an OS for TW mix.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1296366487771312128

Thank goodness most of the online NRS community never bothers to learn or use OS.

 

[Marlow]

I just found an OS for TW mix.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1296366487771312128

This seems impossible, because I've been told repeatedly that there's nothing to lab in this game.

Also, because I'm an idiot, what is the option select that you're doing? Is it like a fuzzy guard thing, or just a quick stagger of the block button, or what?

 

[Mandolore1123]

This seems impossible, because I've been told repeatedly that there's nothing to lab in this game.

Also, because I'm an idiot, what is the option select that you're doing? Is it like a fuzzy guard thing, or just a quick stagger of the block button, or what?

He's very briefly letting go of block between the first hit of storm cell and the second hit of storm cell, since storm cell is 13/4f startup and the grab is 17f there's a small gap where you can OS the strike/throw. You need to get a feel for when the first hit is supposed to land though, you can't react but apparently once you get it (I can't get it yet) it's very consistent. I tested this with @Trustful_Whale in some matches and he can mostly pull it off even when I stagger B12

 

[Marlow]

What if Raiden stops at just B12? Does the opponent have time to punish, or are they still committed to their blocking OS?

 

[Mandolore1123]

What if Raiden stops at just B12? Does the opponent have time to punish, or are they still committed to their blocking OS?

They can't OS the stagger but you're still at -8. So no they can't punish if they are trying to OS the mix, but it's not like B12 is a very good stagger anyway.

 

[Darth Mao]

You can use Tele/Tele ex to add more options

 

[SparkySanders]

Isn’t b12 tele cancel -18 or something

 

[Trustful_Whale]

Teleport is an escape at best, there's no danger to the opponent if Raiden decides to do that.

 

[Mandolore1123]

So according to (not mine) video, you can fit a jab string In the OS so even when you stagger B12 the opponent is guaranteed either a punish or a string to take back their turn.

RIP B12

 

[Darth Mao]

So according to (not mine) video, you can fit a jab string In the OS so even when you stagger B12 the opponent is guaranteed either a punish or a string to take back their turn.

RIP B12

 

[Mandolore1123]

This isn’t an OS though. But this is one of the ways we can punish. I imagine doing a far teleport cancel into F4 whiff punish would achieve the same effect with more damage. However this is only specific to TW, and we burn half of all Our resources just to cover one string. If the opponent doesn’t use a jab string and just blocks they can still react to EX teleport and punish.

 

[Mandolore1123]

This isn’t an OS though. But this is one of the ways we can punish. I imagine doing a far teleport cancel into F4 whiff punish would achieve the same effect with more damage. However this is only specific to TW, and we burn half of all Our resources just to cover one string. If the opponent doesn’t use a jab string and just blocks they can still react to EX teleport and punish.

Some more supplementation:
You can also achieve this with a fly cancel in Raijin, but certain characters with stupidly long S1 ranges (Cetrion) can punish you. But the point still stands, we are using so many resources just to cover one string, and if you do EX teleport in TW into B12 (Assuming they don’t punish) Then you have to make a read again on your next B12.

IMO the way forward now (at least for Raijin) is to do away with B12 as part of pressure and reserve it for whiff punishing. Off pokes we use F3~DF2 to reset neutral on block, gain +33 on hit, if they start to FB the gap then condition with F32, mix in the rare F3~DB4AMP and F3 stagger and F3~BF1AMP. Need to actually play more TW and get back into how to play it more optimally to give a better opinion.

 

[Darth Mao]

Oh, you're right, this ins't an OS. My bad.

Far Tele into f4 ins't a option, sadly. TW need to stagger b1 before go to b12, its the only way to use this string [max range b1~df2 work wonders for Raijin for example]. f3 is a much better option for sure, but TW dont have a safe special to use so he need to risk to gain momentum

 

[Mandolore1123]

Oh, you're right, this ins't an OS. My bad.

Far Tele into f4 ins't a option, sadly. TW need to stagger b1 before go to b12, its the only way to use this string [max range b1~df2 work wonders for Raijin for example]. f3 is a much better option for sure, but TW dont have a safe special to use so he need to risk to gain momentum

I guess that’s the bad thing about TW, no matter what you do, you need meter just to stay safe. I guess you can do gimmicks like cancelling into TP on block but it’s still super unsafe and only works on people who don’t expect/can’t react to it (ie me).
At the moment TW can still do:
F3~far teleport//F3~BF1AMP//F32//F3 stagger//F3~fly cancel//F3~EX teleport
TW has always had more “options” than Raijin, but it’s just that literally none of them are safe lol

 

[Marlow]

I normally don't ask for too much in terms of buffs, but man oh man wouldn't it be nice if B31 2+4 would also act as an anti-breakaway move?

 

[Zviko]

I normally don't ask for too much in terms of buffs, but man oh man wouldn't it be nice if B31 2+4 would also act as an anti-breakaway move?

Yes! I think I mentioned this before only because they can breakaway before Storm Cell comes out.

 

[Marlow]

Yes! I think I mentioned this before only because they can breakaway before Storm Cell comes out.

I was hoping there was at least some other option that would clip the opponent, or that summon lightening would work, or at least finishing the combo string would be an option. Does less damage, but at least it's guaranteed wouldn't be a bad trade off.

 

[Mandolore1123]

Yes! I think I mentioned this before only because they can breakaway before Storm Cell comes out.

Players who know the MU wouldn’t let you get to the storm cell part because they flawless block and punish B31, so having B31 2+4 armour break is not really meaningful.

 

[Mandolore1123]

I normally don't ask for too much in terms of buffs, but man oh man wouldn't it be nice if B31 2+4 would also act as an anti-breakaway move?

I would very much rather they:

1. Remove the OS from B12. I don’t care how they do it, just remove it. They can take back the grab ender on block for all I care If they think Raiden having a strike/throw off B12 is bad
2. FIX S3. This move has been broken and useless since launch, please NRS, just make this move actually connect to hurtboxes in a normal situation
3. Maybe a slightly faster BF1, so Raijin can deal with zoning a little better
4. A 3rd variation. No idea why this wasn’t added in the patch when literally everyone else in the game has one
5. Maybe make B14 safe, so this string has a better use
6. FIX D3 SO IT DOESN’T GET LOW CRUSHED BY JACQUI AND SHAO’S F3
7. FIX F3 SO IT DOESN’T GET LOW PROFILED BY POKES AT MAX RANGE