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Lord Raiden General Discussion Thread

ogrimtitan

ogrimtitan

Mortal
Mandolore1123 said:
Universal Changes:
  • Hit box fix to F1 (hits at match start distance now)
  • B12 now -8 from -9
  • F32 now mid --> overhead from mid --> mid with increased pushback on block (pushes you back to tip of D1 range)
  • B12 1+3 now a true high grab that hits crouch blocking opponents but can be neutral ducked and punished
  • B31 2+4 now comes out on block at -16 but push back leaves opponents unable to punish (2+4 does NOT come out if second hit of B31 is flawless blocked)
  • Increased push back on block on B2 (meaningless because it's still unsafe and many characters can easily punish)
  • BF1 projectile starts up at 27f from 28f, also -7 on block up from -11
  • BF1 AMP can be slightly delayed have has better recovery, and more importantly better advantage on block (can be plus in certain distances) and when used after strings and normals can allow Raiden to gain space for whiff punishing (link to thread: https://testyourmight.com/threads/using-raiden’s-bf1-after-strings-and-normals-and-some-s3-stuff.73163/), hit advantage increased to +35 from +31
Implications for Raijin
  • Strike/throw mix after B12 (either DF2 which is safe or 1+3 9% unsafe grab ender) but may be OS'd by flawless block (not tested)
  • New flawless block gap between B12 and DF2 (previously only B12, F4 and F2 had NO flawless block gaps when cancelling into DF2)
  • Better anti-zoning with BF1 (slightly because startup is still quite bad)
  • More options to Mix up off F3 (DB4, BF1, DF2, F32, stagger)
  • Summon lightning breaks armour and does increased damage --> each touch Raijin does can lead to unbreakable damage of around 25% for 1 bar (but summon lightning does NOT connect off B2 KB)
  • Summon lightning now starts up at 11f from 14f and has better hit box allowing for slightly better damage off certain routes and easier connecting from combos, certain strings (B31, 243) and D2 KB
Implications for TW
  • New potential mix ups off various teleports and the 1+3 grab ender. (not fully tested, since all options except far teleport are unsafe)
  • Storm cell now cannot be breakaway'd during the move, but does NOT break armour, and strings that launch opponents like B31 and 243 are still susceptible to breakaway when cancelled into storm cell
  • More mix ups from F3 (BF1, F32, stagger, teleports)
  • B12~storm cell now connects correctly on female characters (needs further testing)
This should be all but if I've missed something the others should be able to fill you in :)
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Thank you sooo much! This was great! So Raijin's still the go to? I'm thrilled Raiden seems to be in a legitimately competitive spot, but I sure do miss playing a teleporting Raiden that's actually really good.
 
Mandolore1123

Mandolore1123

Man of Science Who Wields the Living Lightning
ogrimtitan said:
Thank you sooo much! This was great! So Raijin's still the go to? I'm thrilled Raiden seems to be in a legitimately competitive spot, but I sure do miss playing a teleporting Raiden that's actually really good.
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Raijin is the go-to. TW is the counter pick for MUs where the opponent is very projectile heavy but you sacrifice a lot in exchange for the teleport.
 
DarksydeDash

DarksydeDash

You know me as RisingShieldBro online.
anyone checked out truth and light since the patch? B12 Lightning Rod is now a 50/50 because of the grab.
 
Marlow

Marlow

Champion
DarksydeDash said:
anyone checked out truth and light since the patch? B12 Lightning Rod is now a 50/50 because of the grab.
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I think T&L is clearly improved by the changes, although I still don't see a reason to play it competitively other than simply going with a style choice. Jo Push is an arguably worse launcher than Storm Cell or Electric Current, and it's definitely not worth giving up Electric Fly. I find Lightening Rod to have extremely limited utility. There just doesn't seem to be any reliable setups at the moment.

I still want to play Truth & Light just for fun, but at the moment it's a pretty redundant variation.
 
Szkarad

Szkarad

( • )( • )ԅ(≖⌣≖ԅ)
Szkarad said:
Watch every mediocre youtuber make a "RAIDEN IS NOW GODLIKE" video after the patch, even if the changes will MAYBE push him to mid tier
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17064

:O

Btw. I've been playing Raiden extensively and can safely say that I was wrong. The buffs really did help, especially F2 frames, F1 hitbox and B31 2+4. V3 still cries in the corner. IMO they should have made comboing of BF3 more consistent but I guess they don't give a crap about this variation
 
Evil Canadian

Evil Canadian

G O K U
Elder God
Storm cell breakaway change is pretty big. You can basically always get 20% now, and if the breakaway timing is anything less than perfect you will get 25% before they hit the ground.
 
Zviko

Zviko

Warrior
Evil Canadian said:
Storm cell breakaway change is pretty big. You can basically always get 20% now, and if the breakaway timing is anything less than perfect you will get 25% before they hit the ground.
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Except if you use it after B31 or 243 in the corner. You still get full combo punished for it.
 
DarksydeDash

DarksydeDash

You know me as RisingShieldBro online.
out of curiousity, does Raiden have a normal he can use in a combo and still get an armor break regardless of breakaway?
 
Zviko

Zviko

Warrior
Evil Canadian said:
then you play by the same rules literally everyone else in the game does, bait it out cause you can't react to storm cell and break now.
Still a huge win for raiden in the end.
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Yeah but then it becomes I know that you know situation. I know what you mean but I still think it's bs. At least everyone else gets a launcher before they have to guess breakaway or not. B31 is a very unsafe string if flawless blocked or staggered, so why does it have to be unsafe on successfully hitting your opponent and committing to the launcher as well? I don't get it and why are you even defending this. I thought you were a Raiden fan. :D
 
Lt. Boxy Angelman

Lt. Boxy Angelman

I WILL EAT THIS GAME
So I'm setting up camp with you guys for the week. Learning matchups comes easier to me by labbing characters myself, so I'm gonna grind out the Character Towers to see who and what sticks, and Raijin is #1 on my list. There's something about the combination of Staff Slam, Discharge and the buffed B12 Grab that are super reminiscent of my old IJ1 main, Doomsday, and his bag full of Earth Shake, Trait, and 22 1+3. Superman is the Venom shoulder charge. The Amish suit is his Containment Trash Man suit. You see where this is going. I don't mind not having the biggest combos when I have huge corner carry and the means to push back to midscreen almost every time I touch you. It's a very familiar strategy I would like to embrace. Any suggestions on the do's and dont's would be welcome and appreciated as I attempt to earn my Hat.
 
Mandolore1123

Mandolore1123

Man of Science Who Wields the Living Lightning
Lt. Boxy Angelman said:
So I'm setting up camp with you guys for the week. Learning matchups comes easier to me by labbing characters myself, so I'm gonna grind out the Character Towers to see who and what sticks, and Raijin is #1 on my list. There's something about the combination of Staff Slam, Discharge and the buffed B12 Grab that are super reminiscent of my old IJ1 main, Doomsday, and his bag full of Earth Shake, Trait, and 22 1+3. Superman is the Venom shoulder charge. The Amish suit is his Containment Trash Man suit. You see where this is going. I don't mind not having the biggest combos when I have huge corner carry and the means to push back to midscreen almost every time I touch you. It's a very familiar strategy I would like to embrace. Any suggestions on the do's and dont's would be welcome and appreciated as I attempt to earn my Hat.
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DO:
  • Practice hit confirming into damage and block confirming into fly cancel/staff slam/far teleport cancel
  • Learning his plus frames on hit and on block (see page 60 of this thread and my thread on BF1AMP)
  • Use F3 more, because this is where the real stuff is, not B12.
  • Abuse discharge, it’s a game-changer
General gameplan is to play footsies until you get to the corner then bully them with strike/throw and overhead/low. He has great buttons but is a bit slow and can get out zoned easily in Raijin and is quite unsafe in TW

DON’T
  • Rely on the grab. It’s tempting but will get you killed
  • jump, he has a bad jump kick (bad downward angle and hence hard to get plus frames at all), and his jumpins are bad too
  • play Truth and Light
Good luck
 
Lt. Boxy Angelman

Lt. Boxy Angelman

I WILL EAT THIS GAME
Mandolore1123 said:
DO:
  • Practice hit confirming into damage and block confirming into fly cancel/staff slam/far teleport cancel
  • Learning his plus frames on hit and on block (see page 60 of this thread and my thread on BF1AMP)
  • Use F3 more, because this is where the real stuff is, not B12.
  • Abuse discharge, it’s a game-changer
General gameplan is to play footsies until you get to the corner then bully them with strike/throw and overhead/low. He has great buttons but is a bit slow and can get out zoned easily in Raijin and is quite unsafe in TW

DON’T
  • Rely on the grab. It’s tempting but will get you killed
  • jump, he has a bad jump kick (bad downward angle and hence hard to get plus frames at all), and his jumpins are bad too
  • play Truth and Light
Good luck
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Excellent. Thank you, amigo.
I just finished his first Tower wheel, and my first big takeaway was that his jump-ins make me want to never ever leave the ground.
And while I've had reservations forever about the strike-throw meta, being that Raijin seems built to kill you 15-20% at a time, it's a meta that he can excel in now that he's been buffed up.
I absolutely need to work on my Teleport cancels, though. The only move-cancel-heavy character I've ever been decent with was Leatherface, and that's because the input for it was smooth as butter. It is a weakness I must overcome.

Also, totally random sidenote, but Thundercrack is the best Staff in his whole gear set, because it's a fucking lion, that doesn't require dealing with Kombat League to get like the other one, and beating people senseless with a Mister Kitty on a stick pleases me greatly.

This was a good choice.
 
Mandolore1123

Mandolore1123

Man of Science Who Wields the Living Lightning
Lt. Boxy Angelman said:
Excellent. Thank you, amigo.
I just finished his first Tower wheel, and my first big takeaway was that his jump-ins make me want to never ever leave the ground.
And while I've had reservations forever about the strike-throw meta, being that Raijin seems built to kill you 15-20% at a time, it's a meta that he can excel in now that he's been buffed up.
I absolutely need to work on my Teleport cancels, though. The only move-cancel-heavy character I've ever been decent with was Leatherface, and that's because the input for it was smooth as butter. It is a weakness I must overcome.

Also, totally random sidenote, but Thundercrack is the best Staff in his whole gear set, because it's a fucking lion, that doesn't require dealing with Kombat League to get like the other one, and beating people senseless with a Mister Kitty on a stick pleases me greatly.

This was a good choice.
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If you have bar and buff on, each touch should be dealing at least 30% optimally. He does pretty good damage, but you need to keep buff on. He gets guaranteed buff after certain knockdowns like BF1AMP, DB3AMP, DB2, BF3, F32 (basically anything with >30f advantage). You can sneak in buff after throws and BF3AMP, but you lose the chance to OKI. Cancelling into buff is possible from strings and normals but all are very negative on block AND on hit.
 
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