Match-Up Discussion - Liu Kang Liu Kang Matchup Discussion

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Against subzero I would work on punishing f42 clone. There is a huge gap that armor can blow up. I havn't tested yet but I bet mb BK and MB FK can beat it and punish.

 

[ZOOM]

ermac cant out footsie liu kang. f3 d3 f4 are your friends vs ermy.

And yeah Fly. I noticed that gap to but yeah.. liu cant do anyyyttthing for his life vs sub. Im going to try ermac vs subby.

 

[FREEJ4Y]

if you get the knockdown, then you can lock down sub

B1,2 blows up armor on slide. might be too difficult to time online.

this doesn't change the whole match, but staying in helps.

i still would rather counter pick with scorp, kl, or quan chi

 

[ZOOM]

I tested Jump ins, Across the whole cast, and AAing jump ins, and AAing cross ups.

Kangs Jump ins in the corner on Crouching hitboxes completely whiff, No clue why.

Kang can AA with U4 from far on the whole cast (on reaction a bit tougher, its a slow AA).

At a certain distance, 30% of the cast can Stuff U4

D2 gets stuffed by 50% of the cast

Kang can barely AA Cross ups.

Really weird stuff.

 

[FREEJ4Y]

I tested Jump ins, Across the whole cast, and AAing jump ins, and AAing cross ups.

Kangs Jump ins in the corner on Crouching hitboxes completely whiff, No clue why.

Kang can AA with U4 from far on the whole cast (on reaction a bit tougher, its a slow AA).

At a certain distance, 30% of the cast can Stuff U4

D2 gets stuffed by 50% of the cast

Kang can barely AA Cross ups.

Really weird stuff.

I thought it was me or online. Thanks for posting this.

Have you tried using air to airs? or is that included in your definition of AAs?

 

[XAlcarazX]

I tested Jump ins, Across the whole cast, and AAing jump ins, and AAing cross ups.

Kangs Jump ins in the corner on Crouching hitboxes completely whiff, No clue why.

Kang can AA with U4 from far on the whole cast (on reaction a bit tougher, its a slow AA).

At a certain distance, 30% of the cast can Stuff U4

D2 gets stuffed by 50% of the cast

Kang can barely AA Cross ups.

Really weird stuff.

liu's air game i feel is really weak. what i usually do is try to make them whiff jip and go for B2 its a solid punish bcuz of the hardknock down

 

[kaseyk]

I was getting blown up by a guy who ended up dropping liu day1 because of my pre release spotting of his weak AA game .

I find nj3 and dash/run under and b2 the most reliable .
Air to air lk is ok nj1-fb-lowfb(or dragon kick) or nj1-fb-run-b12-fbf4

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

I tested Jump ins, Across the whole cast, and AAing jump ins, and AAing cross ups.

Kangs Jump ins in the corner on Crouching hitboxes completely whiff, No clue why.

Kang can AA with U4 from far on the whole cast (on reaction a bit tougher, its a slow AA).

At a certain distance, 30% of the cast can Stuff U4

D2 gets stuffed by 50% of the cast

Kang can barely AA Cross ups.

Really weird stuff.

You had a big mispost that makes me question every "fact" you post. Especially percentages...lmao.

dude...i doubt all your posts now.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

@ZOOM

I know knag has a weak air game and a weak anti air game...but your percentages make me laugh.

 

[cR Xarakamaka]

kung jins njp2 i found very annoying . any tips? , for example njp2 njp2 with kung jin . kangs normal arent far enough to reach i dnt think . i shud really check what kung jins njp2 is on block before making this post but hey ho . and anyone else found this annoying to deal with vs kung jin? , any help much appreciated

 

[ZOOM]

kung jins njp2 i found very annoying . any tips? , for example njp2 njp2 with kung jin . kangs normal arent far enough to reach i dnt think . i shud really check what kung jins njp2 is on block before making this post but hey ho . and anyone else found this annoying to deal with vs kung jin? , any help much appreciated

Kangs normals wont reach in a lot of Match ups. What you have to commit to doing with liu kanng. Also Kung Jin has one of the best NJP in the game in terms of reach.

Essentially if you can't reach on certain strings, I have found reversing with BF2 Works just fine, It's safe too. And sometimes its Lius only option on Block on a string he can't reach in where the opponent is -. :/

 

[Phosferrax]

Kangs normals wont reach in a lot of Match ups. What you have to commit to doing with liu kanng. Also Kung Jin has one of the best NJP in the game in terms of reach.

Essentially if you can't reach on certain strings, I have found reversing with BF2 Works just fine, It's safe too. And sometimes its Lius only option on Block on a string he can't reach in where the opponent is -. :/

There no strings in the game that have more pushback than the range of b2. So at that range they guess between a low fireball or b2.

 

[FOREVER EL1TE]

Liu kang(Dualist) against kung lao:
The matchup I would say is about even. The only problem is the corner game.
Midscreen neutral game is even. lao Has more damage (minor) and mobility. But we have better spacing and control. It really helps to play the mu patient to. Let kung Lao have the momentum and wait for that spin punish, dive kick punish, etc. Also save your meter! You always want two or a full bar. F3 is one of your best options on spacing. Also grab the hell out of Lao and create that mixup after bicycle kick (B2,F4, grab)
In the corner it may become one sided. If he has you in the corner, be patient and find your way out. Don't jump because a good Lao will spin on reaction. Use grab to switch positions and get yourself out. Now if you have the corner, set up orbs. Make sure the setup you are using doesn't give him time to escape. Use your low fireball more. I feel that it's faster and lowers your hitbox.
That's the MU!

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Liu kang(Dualist) against kung lao:
The matchup I would say is about even. The only problem is the corner game.
Midscreen neutral game is even. lao Has more damage (minor) and mobility. But we have better spacing and control. It really helps to play the mu patient to. Let kung Lao have the momentum and wait for that spin punish, dive kick punish, etc. Also save your meter! You always want two or a full bar. F3 is one of your best options on spacing. Also grab the hell out of Lao and create that mixup after bicycle kick (B2,F4, grab)
In the corner it may become one sided. If he has you in the corner, be patient and find your way out. Don't jump because a good Lao will spin on reaction. Use grab to switch positions and get yourself out. Now if you have the corner, set up orbs. Make sure the setup you are using doesn't give him time to escape. Use your low fireball more. I feel that it's faster and lowers your hitbox.
That's the MU!

What are some of your orb setups in the corner that you like?

 

[Phosferrax]

Low fireball in Dualist sucks at mid range, it is awful. I would advice using against Lao as he can jump or divekick on react and blow you up.

 

[FOREVER EL1TE]

What are some of your orb setups in the corner that you like?

Off of 113
113,B34,,F44 Bicycle kick, 112 low orb. Safe enough to block his enhanced wakeup spin.

 

[kaseyk]

this threads been pretty dead
so i had a really long set with a friend @RunwayMafia ( a week ago roughly ) who plays dvorah very well and came to the conclusion this is a losing mu specifically venomous . this may be a 3-7 mu at the best it is a hard 4-6 .
probably a 4-6 because i wasn't aware of her gaps and what was best to punish etc , maybe if i am able to master the mu i can make it closer to 5-5

i learned alot in the set .

stamina management is ultra important so using breakers is pretty much a guaranteed loss . you need it to get out of alot of her pressure and to get good punishes .

we can shut down her wakeup game with b12 easy enough but she puts up the finger right back by making our wakeups worthless against her small frame .

you really have to play smart in approaching her , dualist is a bill here and DF was so so getting f213 in was a bitch against her but was able to f44-fbc a bit but only because he was learning the mu too . i found FF to be the best in this mu do to liu being fairly easy to block , the buff really makes a difference and with it up was the only times during the matches i felt at advantage .

i had a bad habit of f44-db2 which on hit of f44 the db2 whiffs for huge punish ( still trying to break this habit lol )

she can also land a free low poke after our b2 is blocked which hurts more because of poison and her being on the attack of course lol

she has to work to get you from full screen so that is a + and we can run up and 113 full combo punish her bug puddle from full screen also a +
( but you need the stamina of course and also need to be kind of ready to do it if that makes sense )

anyone else notice a losing mu or have solid insight on this one ? this is the only mu i feel confident is a losing battle right now .

 

[Phosferrax]

this threads been pretty dead
so i had a really long set with a friend @RunwayMafia ( a week ago roughly ) who plays dvorah very well and came to the conclusion this is a losing mu specifically venomous . this may be a 3-7 mu at the best it is a hard 4-6 .
probably a 4-6 because i wasn't aware of her gaps and what was best to punish etc , maybe if i am able to master the mu i can make it closer to 5-5

i learned alot in the set .

stamina management is ultra important so using breakers is pretty much a guaranteed loss . you need it to get out of alot of her pressure and to get good punishes .

we can shut down her wakeup game with b12 easy enough but she puts up the finger right back by making our wakeups worthless against her small frame .

you really have to play smart in approaching her , dualist is a bill here and DF was so so getting f213 in was a bitch against her but was able to f44-fbc a bit but only because he was learning the mu too . i found FF to be the best in this mu do to liu being fairly easy to block , the buff really makes a difference and with it up was the only times during the matches i felt at advantage .

i had a bad habit of f44-db2 which on hit of f44 the db2 whiffs for huge punish ( still trying to break this habit lol )

she can also land a free low poke after our b2 is blocked which hurts more because of poison and her being on the attack of course lol

she has to work to get you from full screen so that is a + and we can run up and 113 full combo punish her bug puddle from full screen also a +
( but you need the stamina of course and also need to be kind of ready to do it if that makes sense )

anyone else notice a losing mu or have solid insight on this one ? this is the only mu i feel confident is a losing battle right now .

You say you were both learning the MU so how can you decide that it feels like a 3-7? It takes many hours of gameplay to determine a MU.

D'Vorah is a hard character to learn to fight against, just stand block and she can only really poke. Yeah she gets that damage in Venomous but she gets that against everyone. Her armor sucks so in DF you can just go ham on knockdown, and she only makes flying kick and dragon's roar whiff if she is crouching in which case she's only going to be doing low pokes, so just block low or backdash. Plus it's a hard time punishing a whiffed flying kick anyway.

 

[kaseyk]

i found myself without the stamina to do fbc when i had the chance and yes to soon to say 3-7 (except when using dualist )

i dont care how she does against others just liu kang since hes all i use seriously . i'm still undecided but it really feels uphill her range is the real trouble .
in venomous i would feel like i was winning then the poison adds up very tough fight little room for error . credit to @RunwayMafia for being a great player .

others had troubles with sub i feel good in that mu

 

[XAlcarazX]

any 1 else having trouble with kano cybernetic, that shit feels like a horrible mu

 

[FOREVER EL1TE]

I feel like D'Vorah isn't that bad. I never had a problem with her, maybe I need to fight a pro user of her.
Also so far, I believe liu kang loses to Ermac. A hard 4-6. And quan chi to. Another 4-6.

 

[EMPR_MURK]

I haven't played dvorah consistently since week 2, but i wasn't at the level i am now in the game so i haven't played an evolved set with her.
Can you guys care to explain any info you have about it?

 

[kaseyk]

I feel pretty good against ermac , he seems pretty unsafe havent gotten high level set yet .

Quan didnt seem losing either though the bat setups are tough to block .
We dont have to sweat at all on knockdown is a big bonus his wakeups are bad except when hes down on his armor circle double armor can catch you off gaurd .

For @EMPR_MURK dvorah i really recommend lab to teach you how to get out of her pressure which may be better after a good set so you know what to work on . ( week old strong points i can remember off the top of my head )
I learned i have to respect the d4 followed by a d3 on block or mid poke followed by low both give poison .

D3-puddle you can get out by armoring through or advancing starter .

On block puddle full screen she has time to get to you and still be plus so i would find ex db2 back into zoning worked often .

She wins air to air and respect her AA game one of the best in that department .

Get on her on knockdown b12 is great there .

Back dash is huge in this mu same with run , stamina management is so vital and that may be why i had the best luck with FF and it's stamina friendly style .

Venomous is her best variation against us that i'm very confident on the poison can really catch you it hurts lol i will test it to see how long the stacks last and it's other bonuses ( after checking dvorah threads of course they may have done it already )

@Vak Phoenix
@RunwayMafia are the best dvorah's i've played and i know @HoneyBee uses her aswell and made a nice vid with her gaps ,but i havent played him yet .

They would be the best to play for mu experience i'm sure they all play her high level .
hopefully you would be able to get a solid connection with one of them .

 

[kaseyk]

The whiffing on females is stance specific ...

F4-fbf4 cancelled on first hit in dualist and DF goes over females not stance specific

F44-db2 and f44-bf1 FF only and in corner f44-ex bf1 FF only whiff if you are opposite stances southpaw vs orthodox , i hope nrs adjusts the hit box on these specials so we dont get full combo punished for connecting the 3rd hit in f44 in the wrong stance .

All of these hurt me in the dvorah mu i will try to correct it through my play but they are tough habits to get rid of just against females

 

[Phosferrax]

I think Liu might lose to Scorpion Hellfire, probably Inferno as well. I find that Scorpion has great jumping attacks that allow him to almost jump at Liu for free. The only thing he can really do is trip guard but that is not easy in this game. I find his d4 is a nightmare to deal with because of it's range, speed and safety and it makes the ground game very tricky. He makes zoning risky and he has great footises and a knockdown game to contend with Liu.

Any thoughts?