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General/Other - Kung Lao Kung Lao General Discussion

Scott The Scot

Where there is smoke, there is cancer.
Not sure if it's been discussed (tell me where, I'd like to see) but you can corpse hop in the corner with Kung Lao after doing his throw. Pretty good to just run over their body then throw them again.
 

I GOT HANDS

Official Infrared Scorp wid gapless Wi-Fi pressure
Tempest has that insane damage now. But Buzz Saws mix-ups are real, he tears holes through anyone's defence. He might not have the numbers on his side, but am I the only one who feels like the recent improvements to Tempest only put him on Buzz Saws level, not made him stronger?
 
Tempest has that insane damage now. But Buzz Saws mix-ups are real, he tears holes through anyone's defence. He might not have the numbers on his side, but am I the only one who feels like the recent improvements to Tempest only put him on Buzz Saws level, not made him stronger?
Buzzsaw is good, but does lack in damage off of 11212, f23 and ex spin. Low hat does grant you more pressure without meter, but buzzsaw is a little riskier than tempest even though buzzsaw isn't that risky. Buzzsaw needs meter for ex spin which is part of his pressure and to convert b321 into full combo. Buzzsaw is also more matchup based imo, so in that aspect it also loses to tempest. The opponent has good defensive options against buzzsaw pressure midscreen, you need to get the opponent into the corner for good enough damage and even better pressure.

Tempest doesn't need meter for anything really so you might as well use it for extending blockstrings. The 15% damage difference between a 11212 launcher, ex spin(24%buzzsaw, tempest 35%-38%), and f2 in tempest(40%) and buzzsaw(25%) is just too much.

Zoning in buzzsaw is also weird because it isn't really zoning, the projectiles do little damage and your zoning is over if they are ducked or jumped. Buzzsaw is more about counterzoning with the low hat.

Zoning in tempest is like using a long range 15 frame poke. The long recovery doesn't allow you to enter a zoning battle, so it is best if you as the kung lao player start throwing the projectile first and bait the opponent to throw something back and then catch them with a jump 2 for a comb or just to get in. So you can't really zone, it is more for stopping runs and keeping your opponent honest.

Buzzsaw is still better in the matchups like kenshi, quan chi, jacqui, subzero. While tempest is better in matchups like raiden, cassie, jax, erron black, Kung jin or just in general. Tempest is stronger against the top characters and buzzsaw is more like a bully against characters who aren't that good upclose.
 

coolwhip

Master
One thing I feel Lao players are getting away with in tempest is throwing straight hats from non-full screen ranges. Most characters have a punish for that and the Lao player should pay the price for carelessness.
 

I GOT HANDS

Official Infrared Scorp wid gapless Wi-Fi pressure
Buzzsaw is good, but does lack in damage off of 11212, f23 and ex spin. Low hat does grant you more pressure without meter, but buzzsaw is a little riskier than tempest even though buzzsaw isn't that risky. Buzzsaw needs meter for ex spin which is part of his pressure and to convert b321 into full combo. Buzzsaw is also more matchup based imo, so in that aspect it also loses to tempest. The opponent has good defensive options against buzzsaw pressure midscreen, you need to get the opponent into the corner for good enough damage and even better pressure.

Tempest doesn't need meter for anything really so you might as well use it for extending blockstrings. The 15% damage difference between a 11212 launcher, ex spin(24%buzzsaw, tempest 35%-38%), and f2 in tempest(40%) and buzzsaw(25%) is just too much.

Zoning in buzzsaw is also weird because it isn't really zoning, the projectiles do little damage and your zoning is over if they are ducked or jumped. Buzzsaw is more about counterzoning with the low hat.

Zoning in tempest is like using a long range 15 frame poke. The long recovery doesn't allow you to enter a zoning battle, so it is best if you as the kung lao player start throwing the projectile first and bait the opponent to throw something back and then catch them with a jump 2 for a comb or just to get in. So you can't really zone, it is more for stopping runs and keeping your opponent honest.

Buzzsaw is still better in the matchups like kenshi, quan chi, jacqui, subzero. While tempest is better in matchups like raiden, cassie, jax, erron black, Kung jin or just in general. Tempest is stronger against the top characters and buzzsaw is more like a bully against characters who aren't that good upclose.
Thanks for the rundown. Might be because I've been mainly playing Kenshi and Sub. Still, I know the numbers are well on the side of Tempest, but is there any substitute for those amazing mix-ups? Kinda even itself out just a little or no?
 
Thanks for the rundown. Might be because I've been mainly playing Kenshi and Sub. Still, I know the numbers are well on the side of Tempest, but is there any substitute for those amazing mix-ups? Kinda even itself out just a little or no?
The damage and ex hat spin in tempest is definitely better than buzzsaw mixups midscreen imo. Only in the corner does buzzsaw outshine tempest imo. You also have to take into account that the tempest ex hat spin stuff is pretty much guaranteed pressure.
 

coolwhip

Master
The real deal breaker between tempest and buzz-saw is the damage. I feel that's the one area that gives one variation a clear advantage over the other, but it's a significant one. The fact that you can get so much damage off of literally any touch, including an anti air is a pretty big deal.

Everything else, you can find positives that balance each other out in both variations. For instance during pressure, tempest does tremendous chip, but buzzsaw has mix-ups and a better chance at opening people up, especially due to the threat of ex spin after a blocked low hat, which once you get the opponent to respect, gives you even more continuous pressure. Ex spin in tempest is a fool proof anti-air, but ex spin in buzz-saw is ridiculously good in the neutral, has insane range, and multi-layers of armor that beats pretty much every armored move in the game. Both corner games are pretty sick IMO, though tempest requires you to use meter for ex hat spin whereas buzz-saw can do it with 50/50's (b22~low hat or b2~lowhat), especially on knockdown (b2 vs. low hat). Also, both variations give you plenty of throw opportunities, which is a big deal in this game and a tad underutilized.

I feel buzz-saw is definitely better in the neutral, given the combination of low hats and ex spin, and has better zoning (if orbiting hats touched the opponent any time he makes contact with you kinda like Black Adam's trait it would probably be better than buzz-saw in the neutral. But that would be a bit ridiculous). However, tempest has the kind of damage that is too enticing to ignore, especially since you only need meter for ex spin and extending block strings. Buzz-saw requires probably the same meter usage except the reward isn't as big (setting up ex low hats and stuff doesn't guarantee you anything, and the damage off of an ex spin conversion is pretty meh).
 
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MadPropz101

"I still got it...but not much of it"
Ok so i'm not gonna make a thread about it, but i'm just here to say that the tempest shit needs to stop, that +20 million hat is just ridiculous. The normal version should at least be unsafe. After playing him for 30 minutes i was bodying people that i would rarely beat with Jax, which is unfortunately viable by even just using the b321 string and the orbiting hat lol.
This game man...
 

just_2swift

MK1 is the best MK period.
Ok so i'm not gonna make a thread about it, but i'm just here to say that the tempest shit needs to stop, that +20 million hat is just ridiculous. The normal version should at least be unsafe. After playing him for 30 minutes i was bodying people that i would rarely beat with Jax, which is unfortunately viable by even just using the b321 string and the orbiting hat lol.
This game man...
STFU&GTFO:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::joker:
 

dribirut

BLAK FELOW
Ok so i'm not gonna make a thread about it, but i'm just here to say that the tempest shit needs to stop, that +20 million hat is just ridiculous. The normal version should at least be unsafe. After playing him for 30 minutes i was bodying people that i would rarely beat with Jax, which is unfortunately viable by even just using the b321 string and the orbiting hat lol.
This game man...
Smh .. You realize he can't open you up right . He's top but not even close to op or the best.. Adapt
 

MadPropz101

"I still got it...but not much of it"
Smh .. You realize he can't open you up right . He's top but not even close to op or the best.. Adapt
Doesn't need scrub like 50/50s to
Open people up but relies on good spacing, reads, and only relies on grab/ low poke mixups.
"Reads" lol ridiculous range on ji2 and spam b321 until opponent rages and releases block, or mix it up with b3, b32 so they don't know when to stop blocking lel i've seen many great players that can't deal with this tempest shenanigans.

Reads is such an overestimated term, especially in MK X.
 

dribirut

BLAK FELOW
"Reads" lol ridiculous range on ji2 and spam b321 until opponent rages and releases block, or mix it up with b3, b32 so they don't know when to stop blocking lel i've seen many great players that can't deal with this tempest shenanigans.

Reads is such an overestimated term, especially in MK X.
So you're point is that tempest Lao blows you up and you want him nerfed. Is that correct?
 

MadPropz101

"I still got it...but not much of it"
So you're point is that tempest Lao blows you up and you want him nerfed. Is that correct?
No, that's not my point, so stop being a smartass. No wonder so many top players choose him and dominate tournaments, he is a relentless pressure machine that makes you scared shitless too attack him as long as he has 1 bar of meter, because that ex spin leads to more then 3rd of your life gone. I'm not asking for nerfs, i just want people like you to stop talking about good "reads" and tactics and shit when this is as easy as it gets.
 

dribirut

BLAK FELOW
No, that's not my point, so stop being a smartass. No wonder so many top players choose him and dominate tournaments, he is a relentless pressure machine that makes you scared shitless too attack him as long as he has 1 bar of meter, because that ex spin leads to more then 3rd of your life gone. I'm not asking for nerfs, i just want people like you to stop talking about good "reads" and tactics and shit when this is as easy as it gets.
Okk so you just came in here to bitch? I don't get it