General/Other - Kotal Kahn Kotal Kahn General Discussion

[regulas]

can u write me some mid and corner combos?

Check out the Combo thread?



@Pnut Gj on the tournament getting into the top 8!

 

[AcMilan91]

Check out the Combo thread?



@Pnut Gj on the tournament getting into the top 8!

i did but i dont know which one are viable,which one are the best ,and the most common?
and what do u use for punish?

 

[Second Saint]

i did but i dont know which one are viable,which one are the best ,and the most common?
and what do u use for punish?

Ok, Got some BnB's here from the Kahnbo thread, some NJP combos that are buried deep in the kahnbo thread, and some f2 punisher combos. F2 gives you a ton of damage, but it's not a safe starter. It is however a great whiff punisher because of how far and fast it advances. It's 17 frames, so you'll only get the real negative punishes with it. If you have a bar and they're right up close, use 114 since it leads to the most damage.

1 [36%] B14 xx(EX)DB1-F2-F1B2 xx DF2
1 [37%] B14 xx (EX)DB1-F2-B122 xx DB1 These two are ideal combo's easy to land solid damage with DF2 giving better advantage for 1 less dmg
1 [40%] 114 xx (EX)DF1-F2-F1B2 xx DF2
1 [42%] 114 xx (EX)DF1-F2-B122 xx DB1

NJP, f2, f2, f1b2~df2 (30%)
NJP, f2, f2, b122~db1 (32%)

Easier versions
NJP, ji2, f2, b122~db1 (28%)
NJP, ji2, f2, f1b2~df2 (26%)

njp, ji2, f2, 21~EX df1, f1b2~df2 (34%)
njp, f2, f2, 21~EX df1, f1b2~df2 (38%)

f2, f2, f2, b122~db1 (35%)
f2, f2, f2, f1b2~df2 (34%)
f2, f2, f2, EX df1, b122~db1 (41%)
f2, f2, f2, EX df1, f1b2~df2 (40%)

Wargod isn't that different in the corner from midscreen. Most of what you want to do is the same. Keep pressuring with safe strings and mixing up. However, you gain some things that don't work outside of the corner. 114~df2 now connects in the corner as well as a very powerful option select f34~db3. If you do f34~db3 and they block it, you can choose safety or unblockable. If they get hit, you can do f34~db3(cancel), d1~EX df1, f1b2~df1. I don't remember how much damage this does off the top of my head, and I don't even think it's optimal.

njp, f2, f2, f2, 114~db1 (35%)
Njp, f2, f2, f2, 114~EX df1, f1b2~df1 (42% and puts them back in the corner.)
b14~ex db1, f2, 114~df2 (38%)

Instead of going for damage, you can end a combo in 114~df4. This move isn't safe, but it can be pretty useful if you get it out. It tends to make people panic trying to get out of the corner, you can heal a decent amount with it if things go well, and if you land a combo, it does more damage.

 

[RYX]

i did but i dont know which one are viable,which one are the best ,and the most common?
and what do u use for punish?

I can write you some but I only know sun/blood god enough to give you valid opinions

Your punish strings are 114 if the blocked move doesn't push back and it's f1b2 if it does

Sun God:
114~ex.df1, f.2, b.14~db2
f.1b.2, f.2, b.14~ex.DF1 b.14~db2
f.2, nj2, f.2, f.2, b.14~ex.DF1, b.14~db2
^ Highest damage combos IIRC.

Blood God is pretty similar but you end with df1 or uppercut most of the time instead of db2. Throw is also a viable ender because of the guaranteed totem afterwards, i calculate the damage without totems

f.1.b.2~db1, f.1.b.2~ex.DF1, f.2, d.2/throw is 41% and 39% respectively

 

[AcMilan91]

What do to after blocked EX DF3

 

[RYX]

What do to after blocked EX DF3

Blood/Sun god or War God?

You're at +15 for the first two and +30 in war god, so in both variations you can do something like run up 114~air grab to stay at + frames, in Sun God you can do 1~db2 or b.1~db2 for mixups and in War God you can do something like 114~df2 for strong chip and meter building

 

[AcMilan91]

Blood/Sun god or War God?

You're at +15 for the first two and +30 in war god, so in both variations you can do something like run up 114~air grab to stay at + frames, in Sun God you can do 1~db2 or b.1~db2 for mixups and in War God you can do something like 114~df2 for strong chip and meter building

Wargod sorry

 

[Second Saint]

Blood/Sun god or War God?

You're at +15 for the first two and +30 in war god, so in both variations you can do something like run up 114~air grab to stay at + frames, in Sun God you can do 1~db2 or b.1~db2 for mixups and in War God you can do something like 114~df2 for strong chip and meter building

Wargod sorry

In my experience, you actually can't do 114~df2 after EX df3 in War God because the sword hasn't returned yet. Basically, you want to do 114~air grab in that variation as well. The sword returns at the very end of the 114 or b122 string, so maybe it's possible to df2, but I've never hit it. Possibly because of my computer troubles.

But yeah, run cancel, 114~df1 is the way to go, unless it's just a tight cancel window to get the df2, in which case that would be your best bet.

 

[RYX]

In my experience, you actually can't do 114~df2 after EX df3 in War God because the sword hasn't returned yet. Basically, you want to do 114~air grab in that variation as well. The sword returns at the very end of the 114 or b122 string, so maybe it's possible to df2, but I've never hit it. Possibly because of my computer troubles.

But yeah, run cancel, 114~df1 is the way to go, unless it's just a tight cancel window to get the df2, in which case that would be your best bet.

That's what @Mr Aqua said he does. I haven't gotten it either but you're +30 so I'm assuming you've actually got a little more time to wait out the missing sword

 

[OutworldKeith]

This character is a built whiff punisher!

His back dash really compliments his style of play.

 

[Second Saint]

That's what @Mr Aqua said he does. I haven't gotten it either but you're +30 so I'm assuming you've actually got a little more time to wait out the missing sword

That is what he says, but I've never seen him do it. Considering that it's only one number off, it could theoretically have been a typo. I guess if you delay long enough it's possible, but I've tried going in with a d1 then into the 114 block string and it's still not long enough. Maybe the + frames are just a lot longer than they feel.

 

[Pnut]

That is what he says, but I've never seen him do it. Considering that it's only one number off, it could theoretically have been a typo. I guess if you delay long enough it's possible, but I've tried going in with a d1 then into the 114 block string and it's still not long enough. Maybe the + frames are just a lot longer than they feel.

I assume the plus frames depend on how many times the sword actually hits the person. So the frame data may actually vary based on if they block 1 hit/2 hits/3 hits. Something to test.

 

[Second Saint]

I assume the plus frames depend on how many times the sword actually hits the person. So the frame data may actually vary based on if they block 1 hit/2 hits/3 hits. Something to test.

Ok, did a little testing and there is definitely a different amount of plus frames depending on the number of hits. There's also a different amount of pushback though. One hit seems to be about +15 or 16. I put the dummy on reversal back dash and the slowest move I could hit it with was sweep. Still need to RC, 114~df1 even though they aren't far away. You could just do b1 or f1, but without Sword specials, you won't be safe.

Also, I'm pretty certain you can't do 114~df2 in war god without them being able to back dash it now, no matter the amount of hits they block. That doesn't mean you can't hit them with it, but you've got to train them to be defensive after the EX df3.

 

[Mr Aquaman]

I need to make a video. Had a discovery in pressure that may be a game changer. Using what's being discussed And more. Could have it up by wendsday if tcw crap doesnt come up.

 

[Mr Aquaman]

You guys are great though. I didn't think you would have already been messing with this stuff
instead of a video heres a quick summary

b122 mb df 3 rc 114 forces a high block into 114 air tackle. Testing this is at least +4. Meaning a b1(10 frame mid) is guaranteed. Only losing in testing so far to low profiling d4's which is messed up, or armor. Giving you time to get sword back after another b122 after the air tackle. You can mixup, df2, OR for another meter mb df3 again. Rinse and repeat and you will gain another meter back.

now a few things about this style of rushdown, its really about baiting armor, and if they know to low profile then you can just d4 after air tackle, which nothing will beat. So you can d4 into a mixup.

If any part of any of this chain of events hits, nothing bad will come of it. 114 air tackle will hit if they press a button during it, or if they get hit by the first 1 then its easy to confirm into meter. If they get hit by any part of b122 mb df3. You get (top of my head) mid 20's? Puts them full screen, and you have time while they are getting hit to toss a full screen god ray that will check them on wake up for at least .5 even if they wake up armor. Teleport might get out.

Corner, same thing, only if b122 mb df3 hits you can actually get a full combo into great damage. You can easily see it hit and catch them with a d1 into 114, f1b2, or 114 into meterless keep in the corner or spend another meter for 40's back into the corner with an EX air tackle.

I would really love to just show you but like I said I am lazy, so i said screw it.

Hopes this helps guys and any questions please ask! or blow me up, that works too. Either way lets get it on

 

[RYX]

You guys are great though. I didn't think you would have already been messing with this stuff
instead of a video heres a quick summary

b122 mb df 3 rc 114 forces a high block into 114 air tackle. Testing this is at least +4. Meaning a b1(10 frame mid) is guaranteed. Only losing in testing so far to low profiling d4's which is messed up, or armor. Giving you time to get sword back after another b122 after the air tackle. You can mixup, df2, OR for another meter mb df3 again. Rinse and repeat and you will gain another meter back.

I'm kinda sad about how much Kotal loses outside of War God right now. The 114 air tackle was +, we knew that much for a while, but it comes down to a lot of conditioning to make it good. Also this game has way too much armor

 

[RYX]

what do you guys make of this? it's pretty strong vs most of the cast and there's two teleports that can't blow you up for it, Takeda's and Jason's

if you don't wanna watch the video, basically if you Sun Ray ASAP after a throw you can recover fast enough to block or duck a lot of wakeup attempts to blow you up, and if you popped up a totem to bait them instead you can hit them with big damage

 

[Mr Aquaman]

what do you guys make of this? it's pretty strong vs most of the cast and there's two teleports that can't blow you up for it, Takeda's and Jason's

if you don't wanna watch the video, basically if you Sun Ray ASAP after a throw you can recover fast enough to block or duck a lot of wakeup attempts to blow you up, and if you popped up a totem to bait them instead you can hit them with big damage

I got the brutality off of it in tournament on Saturday off of a forward throw, he had .5 left after the throw, seemed guaranteed. Fun stuff haha

 

[Pnut]

I got the brutality off of it in tournament on Saturday off of a forward throw, he had .5 left after the throw, seemed guaranteed. Fun stuff haha

It is guaranteed. Also b122 midscreen cancel is guaranteed.

 

[Second Saint]

You guys are great though. I didn't think you would have already been messing with this stuff
instead of a video heres a quick summary

b122 mb df 3 rc 114 forces a high block into 114 air tackle. Testing this is at least +4. Meaning a b1(10 frame mid) is guaranteed. Only losing in testing so far to low profiling d4's which is messed up, or armor. Giving you time to get sword back after another b122 after the air tackle. You can mixup, df2, OR for another meter mb df3 again. Rinse and repeat and you will gain another meter back.

now a few things about this style of rushdown, its really about baiting armor, and if they know to low profile then you can just d4 after air tackle, which nothing will beat. So you can d4 into a mixup.

If any part of any of this chain of events hits, nothing bad will come of it. 114 air tackle will hit if they press a button during it, or if they get hit by the first 1 then its easy to confirm into meter. If they get hit by any part of b122 mb df3. You get (top of my head) mid 20's? Puts them full screen, and you have time while they are getting hit to toss a full screen god ray that will check them on wake up for at least .5 even if they wake up armor. Teleport might get out.

Corner, same thing, only if b122 mb df3 hits you can actually get a full combo into great damage. You can easily see it hit and catch them with a d1 into 114, f1b2, or 114 into meterless keep in the corner or spend another meter for 40's back into the corner with an EX air tackle.

I would really love to just show you but like I said I am lazy, so i said screw it.

Hopes this helps guys and any questions please ask! or blow me up, that works too. Either way lets get it on

So, I just played around with the pure safe going for a block string version of this. b122~EX df3 into 114~df1 into b122~df2, and my god is this crazy. It deals between 15 and 17.5% chip (some characters only get hit once by the EX DF3) and builds about 80% of a bar on block.

If you just keep putting meter into it, you can go for a damn long time to. Not a block infinite, and it can be countered, but with three bars and someone who doesn't know to Armor through it this is scary as fuck. If you start out with three bars and start this, and they just hold back the entire time, you can use 5 EX df3's and end in b122~df2, just gaining back 1 bar of meter when the df2 hits.

I had all the pieces of this, and I just never put it together this well. Great stuff Mr. Aquaman.

 

[Mr Aquaman]

So, I just played around with the pure safe going for a block string version of this. b122~EX df3 into 114~df1 into b122~df2, and my god is this crazy. It deals between 15 and 17.5% chip (some characters only get hit once by the EX DF3) and builds about 80% of a bar on block.

If you just keep putting meter into it, you can go for a damn long time to. Not a block infinite, and it can be countered, but with three bars and someone who doesn't know to Armor through it this is scary as fuck. If you start out with three bars and start this, and they just hold back the entire time, you can use 5 EX df3's and end in b122~df2, just gaining back 1 bar of meter when the df2 hits.

I had all the pieces of this, and I just never put it together this well. Great stuff Mr. Aquaman.

Yeah I meant to add the chip and the meter build into the explanation, but yeah, its hella scary

 

[RYX]

I got the brutality off of it in tournament on Saturday off of a forward throw, he had .5 left after the throw, seemed guaranteed. Fun stuff haha

it's an okay way to cheese out your opponents or set up for turtling. You can discourage teleports pretty handily with EX sun disc hitting meaty and totem/soul scorch recovering before they can even get off the ground as well

i can make more videos if you have anyone specific you're curious about

 

[AcMilan91]

I fall in love with this character,started yesterday already learned so much thank you

 

[Second Saint]

I'm kinda sad about how much Kotal loses outside of War God right now. The 114 air tackle was +, we knew that much for a while, but it comes down to a lot of conditioning to make it good. Also this game has way too much armor

Actually, I don't see any reason this tech wouldn't be universal. The timing might be more strict with only 18 plus frames from EX sunstone, but I see no reason it isn't doable. The only big difference I can really think of is...in sun god people are already afraid to block, so they'll try and escape the pressure and get hit hard. Read a backdash and f2. And they also have to guess if you're just not even going to bother continuing a block string instead of throwing or even tick throwing (1 is a tick throw right?).

 

[RYX]

Actually, I don't see any reason this tech wouldn't be universal. The timing might be more strict with only 18 plus frames from EX sunstone, but I see no reason it isn't doable. The only big difference I can really think of is...in sun god people are already afraid to block, so they'll try and escape the pressure and get hit hard. Read a backdash and f2. And they also have to guess if you're just not even going to bother continuing a block string instead of throwing or even tick throwing (1 is a tick throw right?).

he lacks the mix ups/chip that war god does and you generally have to risk the tick throw. Risk reward really isn't in your favor if they read it but then again it's a complete 50/50