General/Other - Kotal Kahn Kotal Kahn General Discussion

[Hassun]

F/T does peanut damage compared to Kotal

I disagree. Sure Kotal is a monster when it comes to combo videos but when it comes to stuff that's actually usable in a match I think F/T is plenty powerful.
Looking at the current state of the game on a competitive level it seems many characters have useful combos which do 30-40% of damage. Some even without metre.

 

[RYX]

I disagree. Sure Kotal is a monster when it comes to combo videos but when it comes to stuff that's actually usable in a match I think F/T is plenty powerful.
Looking at the current state of the game on a competitive level it seems many characters have useful combos which do 30-40% of damage. Some even without metre.

KK can sit on his blood offer permanently until he uses 3 attacks

his reliable BnBs meterless are barely less than theirs and his metered ones even without sacrifice will do more damage

F/T is pretty sluggish too as far as advancing normals go

 

[Crayraven]

KK can sit on his blood offer permanently until he uses 3 attacks

his reliable BnBs meterless are barely less than theirs and his metered ones even without sacrifice will do more damage

F/T is pretty sluggish too as far as advancing normals go

He brings a valid point to the table though. When you see combos with Kotal Kahn, its usually in training mode against a stationary target dummy. However many of the combos aren't very practical. Its unlikely that they can be pulled off consistently against a competitive opponent. I'd say Kotal Kahn's biggest problem is practicality vs the other characters.

Most of the cast have very practical ways to setup damage, yes they do less damage than Kotal Kahn. But the way I see it is Kotal Kahn's damage is theoretical. Yes you can do blood offering, yes you can setup totems, yes you can parry for damage. But there is a pattern, to do damage it requires lots of preparation time, the other characters (that I've seen anyway) do not have this hefty requirement.

So in a practical sense, I can see what Hassun is saying.

 

[RYX]

He brings a valid point to the table though. When you see combos with Kotal Kahn, its usually in training mode against a stationary target dummy. However many of the combos aren't very practical. Its unlikely that they can be pulled off consistently against a competitive opponent. I'd say Kotal Kahn's biggest problem is practicality vs the other characters.

Most of the cast have very practical ways to setup damage, yes they do less damage than Kotal Kahn. But the way I see it is Kotal Kahn's damage is theoretical. Yes you can do blood offering, yes you can setup totems, yes you can parry for damage. But there is a pattern, to do damage it requires lots of preparation time, the other characters (that I've seen anyway) do not have this hefty requirement.

So in a practical sense, I can see what Hassun is saying.

It's really not hard to sit on the Blood Offering. Totems can be set up after a knockdown and he goes into pressure just like everyone else except he gets more damage for it if he manages to open you up. The problem with this is that his Blood God can't open you up at all. He's a bait character but he has no reason to make you fall for it when you know your wakeup can get parried and blown up and his mix-ups are otherwise lacking in this variation. His BnBs still turn into massive damage with BO/parry buffs, there's no need for unnecessary swagger unless you're showing off.

It'd be fantastic if he could do something reasonable with F.3, 4. It looks so cool but it only combos in the corner and its damage is also suboptimal to faster strings anyway. Making it cancel faster so that his air grab would land on it would be a godsend and doubly beneficial in that you'd have reason to use b.2 as well.

With just blood offering Kotal Kahn can take half your life bar without meter, and assuming that it's based off a set-up combo he's at least done damage to the opponent beforehand. Add on at least one parry's bonus damage to the first attack and his damage spikes pretty dramatically.

Parry is super strong, I encourage using it with impunity for easy damage buffs.

 

[regulas]

Currently Blood is a pure punish character, worse hes a punish character centered soley on damage since he has limited ways too punish. Unlike Shinnok who's also a punish character but who has viable footsies and better punish options (in exchange for less damage outside of imp). I use him for now mostly because I want to improve my basic gameplay.

So all you have is a few mediocre normals and you may only need to land 2 combo's in the match but that's like nearly impossible once your opponent realises how easy it is to block or ignore your pressure.

At bare minimum he needs f1b2 AND b122 to be -6 on block or better that way he can at least do footsies without eating full combo's. Or he could get fast sunlight as a way to put pressure to force people to make errors. (I doubt even at 18 frames total frames to activate sunlight would be that op since it can't be spammed)

 

[Hellbringer]

Bloodgod is like the ares of injustice but without the sword.
Against good players who are patient its almost unwinnable.
No mixups at all, no wakeup, his 114 string is the only safe one that can be hitconfirmed in combo but sucks because the first hit is a high.
I dont understand why they would make kotals f1b2 string unsafe. If they atleast would make that string safe it would be alot better.
Like regulas said, hes a whiff punisher but even his punishing options arent even that great.

Oh well im still gonna stick with this character, he just looks too badass and actually is really fun to play with. His other variations are also really fun but what is really satisfying is pulling off those bigass combos in a match

 

[Hellbringer]

About sun gun and wargod, are there any matchups so far where sun god would clearly be a better choice than war god? I'd consider taking a more serious look into sun god if that turned out to be the case and besides the sub zero matchup I've heard mentioned are there any other matchups were Kotal seems to struggle a bit?

wargod is alot better in the subzero mu then sungod. Altough sungod is abit better then wargod against zoning. Upclose i think wargod is slightly better then sungod. Against dvorah im much more comfortable using wargod because his ranged armor move cause dvorahas normals are way better and have more range then kotals.
U should play both and see what fits best for you.

 

[Crayraven]

he could get fast sunlight as a way to put pressure to force people to make errors. (I doubt even at 18 frames total frames to activate sunlight would be that op since it can't be spammed)

Sun ray would definitely be better if it was faster. In addition to that, I feel the command for sun ray is rather clunky. It would be much more efficient if it was dd1 (close sun ray) dd 2 (mid sun ray) and dd4 for (far sun ray).

 

[Khaoz77]

The more I play with Sun God the more apparent its potential viability becomes. The only problem is the lack of a good knockdown other than db4. The tick grab setups provide a very scary mindgame playstyle. Just because of that command grab, it opens a lot of opportunities for me to open them up. Is there anyone who actually cashes out for meter or health? I feel that the fully charged grab does have some uses to it, as you don't have to worry about switching sides after each grab.

 

[NHDR]

A God Ray with better frames would be nice, would allow for better pressure on knock down (ex. F1F2 to create distance, then ray).

 

[Hellbringer]

What are guys using to AA?
At closer range i try to use s2 or s1 and vs certain characters d3.
I know vs sub zero d3 is not possible because of his different angle and hitbox when using ji1/2 so s1/2 works alot better.
Against characters with bigger hitbox and more range like dvorah, d3 works better.

 

[RYX]

The more I play with Sun God the more apparent its potential viability becomes. The only problem is the lack of a good knockdown other than db4. The tick grab setups provide a very scary mindgame playstyle. Just because of that command grab, it opens a lot of opportunities for me to open them up. Is there anyone who actually cashes out for meter or health? I feel that the fully charged grab does have some uses to it, as you don't have to worry about switching sides after each grab.

Sun God is my absolute favorite right now

I use his Cash-Out a lot actually. Kotal has a metric shit ton of damage and if you're winning, the big chunk of health you get back helps you win harder. The meter is also super good because it's a remedy to his awful meter-building, and it'll let you hit someone for big damage if you've got a bar

love this character man

 

[RYX]

Normal parry isn't gonna do you any good outside of reads, but EX parry is the shit for interrupting strings

Ermac's f2,1(x)d2 lets you string into an f.2 launcher for anywhere between 37%(no meter, no levels in choke) to over 60% if you spend another bar and have all 3 levels

it's pretty rad but honestly you shouldn't use meter in the follow up combos unless you're reversing them into the corner. Cassie's 121 can be f.2 punished and the other string with a gap in it can only get punished by 1/b1/grab


Also, as a side note, you get 1% more damage if you AA with a string. I noticed it with f12 doing 12% on a jumping opponent instead of 11%, then i did b12-AA grab and it did 15%. I wonder if this is intentional and universal?

 

[Hellbringer]

Normal parry is good for wakeup so u dont have to block the first hit if u read that they gonna pressure you

 

[Matador Fiend]

Are there any vids of someone using kotal in a tourney? I want to see how ppl are using him aince he seems so unsafe on paper to me and easily zoned

 

[Crayraven]

Normal parry is good for wakeup so u dont have to block the first hit if u read that they gonna pressure you

Hmmm I have yet to find normal parry good on wake up. Maybe I'm doing something wrong.

 

[Hellbringer]

Hmmm I have yet to find normal parry good on wake up. Maybe I'm doing something wrong.

Go in practise mode, put the AI on record and let him do a hkd and after that do any low or high string on your wakeup. Then playback and do parry then block on wakeup. You will never get to guess if the first hit is oh or low.
You have to learn the strings to continue blocking the rest tho but thats quickly learned.
Also u can go for ex parry after the first parry but this is tricky but needs good knowledge of all strings.


Ofcourse this wont work when they jump in, but once they started doing jumpins u can backdash or forward run depending how the situation is to get out, or do delayed wakeup.

 

[Khaoz77]

0

Are there any vids of someone using kotal in a tourney? I want to see how ppl are using him aince he seems so unsafe on paper to me and easily zoned

Mr Aquaman was playing War God Kotal on stream in a tournament yesterday. Check it out at nycfurby twitch account. the archive should be there.

 

[KeyserSoze]

It's really not hard to sit on the Blood Offering. Totems can be set up after a knockdown and he goes into pressure just like everyone else except he gets more damage for it if he manages to open you up. The problem with this is that his Blood God can't open you up at all. He's a bait character but he has no reason to make you fall for it when you know your wakeup can get parried and blown up and his mix-ups are otherwise lacking in this variation. His BnBs still turn into massive damage with BO/parry buffs, there's no need for unnecessary swagger unless you're showing off.

It'd be fantastic if he could do something reasonable with F.3, 4. It looks so cool but it only combos in the corner and its damage is also suboptimal to faster strings anyway. Making it cancel faster so that his air grab would land on it would be a godsend and doubly beneficial in that you'd have reason to use b.2 as well.

With just blood offering Kotal Kahn can take half your life bar without meter, and assuming that it's based off a set-up combo he's at least done damage to the opponent beforehand. Add on at least one parry's bonus damage to the first attack and his damage spikes pretty dramatically.

Parry is super strong, I encourage using it with impunity for easy damage buffs.

F34 can be combo'd into ex-sunstone, but point taken.

IMO, making F1B2 or F2 completely safe would make all the difference in the world for blood god.

 

[RYX]

F34 can be combo'd into ex-sunstone, but point taken.

IMO, making F1B2 or F2 completely safe would make all the difference in the world for blood god.

yeah, but that's a pretty big waste IMO

It really should just cancel sooner or launch closer to Kotal so that he can string it into his grab. It's decent damage and he doesn't have a fast overhead to group it with anyway.

 

[Mr Aquaman]

It sucks but you have to do it. Worst comes to worst just punish the ball. You take a lot of chip and he builds meter, but once your in you can make up that damage pretty easily. You can also read a non mb knife throw and j1 (long punch ... it's pretty good).

I did this a lot this weekend, there were a shit ton of kano's at paradise, I would read a knife in the neutral zoning with a max distance run cancel jump 1 and it was really effective

 

[KeyserSoze]

yeah, but that's a pretty big waste IMO

It really should just cancel sooner or launch closer to Kotal so that he can string it into his grab. It's decent damage and he doesn't have a fast overhead to group it with anyway.

Oh, I agree. I'd love to be able to connect his grab off of that string.

Also, besides making either F1B2 or F2 safe, I would (as many others have been suggesting) slightly decrease the start-up frames on Sun Ray/God Ray.

 

[Mr Aquaman]

0


Mr Aquaman was playing War God Kotal on stream in a tournament yesterday. Check it out at nycfurby twitch account. the archive should be there.

yeah it was a great display of war god, I have 100% gotten better implementing meter building strategies with 114 MB axe toss, seems to gaurentee at least 2 hits on block, free way in half screen and you can almost build a bar with the follow up into 114 df2. I lost to REO missing a punish on a raw trance, and in the corner opting for a quick 50/50 when I should have stuck with the b122 to cover delayed wake up.

I have so much to share but no time to share it, I am sorry guys T_T

 

[Khaoz77]

yeah it was a great display of war god, I have 100% gotten better implementing meter building strategies with 114 MB axe toss, seems to gaurentee at least 2 hits on block, free way in half screen and you can almost build a bar with the follow up into 114 df2. I lost to REO missing a punish on a raw trance, and in the corner opting for a quick 50/50 when I should have stuck with the b122 to cover delayed wake up.

I have so much to share but no time to share it, I am sorry guys T_T

Take your time bro. good shit at paradise, i was fanboying too hard on the chat lol. Gotta support the K O T A L B O Y S

 

[RYX]

i didn't even realize i could 114 MB sun disc and get guaranteed follow ups

this is sexy as fuck, sun god pressure is real

edit: is there any reason to use his earth-shaker move in War God? It's unblockable, but the EX version doesn't OTG, does it? does canceling it give you any advantage on block compared to 114 xx air grab or saw blade?