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General/Other - Kotal Kahn Kotal Kahn General Discussion

What is your favorite Variation?

  • War God

    Votes: 170 42.0%
  • Sun God

    Votes: 139 34.3%
  • Blood God

    Votes: 61 15.1%
  • All Equally

    Votes: 35 8.6%

  • Total voters
    405

Second Saint

A man with too many names.
Does anyone have any VODs of that? I'd like to see this.

I've taken to playing a more mid-screen, reactionary Sun God. Sit just outside their range, but not full screen, make them do something, punish appropriately, for a good chunk of damage, reset to neutral and do it again. EX Sun Choke works pretty well for escaping pressure on wake up, and tick sun chokes from d1 are amazing, and make people scared to block, making it easier to open people up.

I just thought about this, but is F1 special cancellable on whiff? How amazing would it be to learn the distance where a F1 xx Sun Choke would work? To the lab! Once I get home, at least, but then, THE LAB!
http://www.twitch.tv/khaosgaming2/v/4367638
His match starts at 29:40. Illusions actually has two in a row.

Honestly, I shouldn't even think of Sword Toss as a ranged move because that's not what it's really for. It's more a plus on block ender (that is actually debilitating) and a counter zoning tool in some situations. Could it at least guarantee 3 hits on EX? Ever throw that thing and just get 6% for it? I have. Going through ice clone since the EX version is 3 hits would be damn nice as well.
 

NHDR

Kombatant
When I tested F1 xx overhead / sweep, there was so much pushback that it looked to be out of reach from all normals. I didn't consider special punishes. Sorry if I misinformed!
 

Crayraven

Mortal
http://www.twitch.tv/khaosgaming2/v/4367638
His match starts at 29:40. Illusions actually has two in a row.

Honestly, I shouldn't even think of Sword Toss as a ranged move because that's not what it's really for. It's more a plus on block ender (that is actually debilitating) and a counter zoning tool in some situations. Could it at least guarantee 3 hits on EX? Ever throw that thing and just get 6% for it? I have. Going through ice clone since the EX version is 3 hits would be damn nice as well.
Anyone know what combo he is doing? After the initial f2.
 

Second Saint

A man with too many names.
Anyone know what combo he is doing? After the initial f2.
Well, it's definitely not optimal, but it might be easy. It looks like f2, 1, f2, 21~EX Airgrab, 21~Sun Choke. Not really sure about that ender because he never finished the combo, but that would likely hit. B14/b12 would hit as well. Probably f1b2 also. Lots of options for enders.
 

Crayraven

Mortal
Well, it's definitely not optimal, but it might be easy. It looks like f2, 1, f2, 21~EX Airgrab, 21~Sun Choke. Not really sure about that ender because he never finished the combo, but that would likely hit. B14/b12 would hit as well. Probably f1b2 also. Lots of options for enders.
Thanks man!
 

Pnut

Mouth of the Illuminati
Werent like all the sword hits safe on block? or do you mean they can interrupt the slash before it hits?
Both OH and Low swords are atleast -12 on block. I believe OH is -14 and low is -16. EX OH has same framedata as regular OH and is NOT neutral on block.
 

regulas

Your Emporer
Both OH and Low swords are atleast -12 on block. I believe OH is -14 and low is -16. EX OH has same framedata as regular OH and is NOT neutral on block.
Really? This is where not having a game on me doesn't help, but I mean I've had people punish OH EX but never actually had people able to punish the regular or low on block.

Does this also mean the frame data is all wrong? I thought regular OH was like -6?
 

Pnut

Mouth of the Illuminati
Really? This is where not having a game on me doesn't help, but I mean I've had people punish OH EX but never actually had people able to punish the regular or low on block.

Does this also mean the frame data is all wrong? I thought regular OH was like -6?
Yes frame data is wrong. f12 says its safe but it's punishable. Both OH and LOW ex are punishable. Saw blade is actually -5 so it's unpunishable.
 

regulas

Your Emporer
Ok got home and was able to test out the data and ya definatly -14 for OH minimum. I don't know why I thought it was -6 so surly. shrug.
 

mkl

Poopbutt.
Well, it's definitely not optimal, but it might be easy. It looks like f2, 1, f2, 21~EX Airgrab, 21~Sun Choke. Not really sure about that ender because he never finished the combo, but that would likely hit. B14/b12 would hit as well. Probably f1b2 also. Lots of options for enders.
f2 1 f2 d1 is nice if you think you hit them too close with f2. When you hit that close with the f2 it changes the timing for the follow-ups and can be frustrating. If you don't wanna sacrifice damage but still want to be consistent with close f2s you should do nj1 after the first. It's way more difficult than f2 1 but it's going to do relatively the same damage as f2 x3.

Is War God's df2 really -5? That means a few characters can actually punish it.
 
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Khaoz77

Don't run, you're gonna trip...
Wow, some good info here.
(War God)

I throw OH out when I F1 and a LOT of people I play respect it even though its punishable. The pushback kind of makes it awkward for them to advance because it gives this false impression that they can't do anything.

I'm in love with df3, that move instills fear. Does nice chip, if you read a jump in and time it right, takes a good chunk off, goes into a hard knockdown, that move really keeps your opponent in check. Part of our game should, imo, rely on scaring the opponent to not get too comfortable. Kotal has the tools to just make people show respect.

(Blood God)

So for Blood God, we need to knock down. Knocking down should be our #1 priority so we can set up. For me, I feel this variation is a variation of extremes, extreme risk for extreme reward. I use Obsidian Totem to reduce Blood Sacrifice damage and since it practically lasts forever if I don't overextend. I then would use Sun Ray in conjunction with Blood Totem to regain any lost health. So i'm constantly setting up, fiending for hard knockdowns in order to set up my huge damage combo potential. Since we can combo into totems, I don't have to worry so much about having the Crystal up at the start so my opponent can run away from me.

I have to play EXTREMELY patient, and cash out on huge damage potential. Extreme risk for extreme reward, and sort of playing mind games with my opponent. This was all from some recent sessions at my school, and since everyone is trying to level up, I can try out stuff without completely being overwhelmed. This was just me trying out a playstyle with the weakest variation and seeing what good can come from it. @UltraDavid videos also made it easier to play a more solid game.

A lot more work needs to be done though, but I will say Blood God is fun because of how many scenarios you have to account for, and it tests your ability to adapt on the fly with apparent disadvantages.
 

NHDR

Kombatant
As far as I understand, Kotal's sword specials are all unsafe. They're made safe when combined with normal strings (ex. F1B2) on block, which creates enough push-back. This is what I've seen in some tutorial videos, and from my own lab time it looks to be real. Is this not true? If not, I'm going to just stick to Kano and call it a day.
 
Not true. df2 and db3u are both -5 which is very safe in almost all matchups.

The overhead and low are quite unsafe, but have a hard to fuzzy mixup off of any normal is a powerful thing to have even if it is unsafe.
 

regulas

Your Emporer
I'm dropping kotal. This fools gets zoned out by everyone.
Well first as always have you tried War God much. Secondly projectile spam is just something to get used to, it can be gotten around with pracitce and no matter who you play you will need to learn.
 

mkl

Poopbutt.
Well first as always have you tried War God much. Secondly projectile spam is just something to get used to, it can be gotten around with pracitce and no matter who you play you will need to learn.
That's true most of the time. He does legitimately have a hard time against some mid projectile characters and ice clone though, even with a lot of knowledge.

If high projectiles are giving you issues you guys gotta learn how to use the run button and f1 to its full potential after ducking them. Even b32 is good for closing space sometimes.
 

Jeremy KO

*insert kotal kahn gibberish here*
I tend to use @Lulzlou's blocking technique against the ice clone. Seems to work well.

Other than that, you just gotta be patient against most zoners. Just keep walking, running, or using his many forward advancing normals and you'll eventually get in.

Compared to Nightwing, getting in against zoners with Kotal is a cake walk.
 

mkl

Poopbutt.
I tend to use @Lulzlou's blocking technique against the ice clone. Seems to work well.

Other than that, you just gotta be patient against most zoners. Just keep walking, running, or using his many forward advancing normals and you'll eventually get in.

Compared to Nightwing, getting in against zoners with Kotal is a cake walk.
What's the blocking technique? Just hold dat and try to block what the throws out? b2 slide are kinda lame when you block them and he is still the ice clone.
 

Crayraven

Mortal
Well first as always have you tried War God much. Secondly projectile spam is just something to get used to, it can be gotten around with pracitce and no matter who you play you will need to learn.
He is right though. Not saying that is a reason to give up on him entirely. But its very easy to zone him out, but very difficult for kotal kahn to get in.
 
Is there any safe way to throw an EX god ray down in the corner at all? I can't find one, at least against Lao.

I was finding my offense to be a bit predictable and hoping to find some different looks for my combos through resets, but I'm really coming up with basically nothing for this character outside throw MB unfortunately.

Would have also been nice to find a use for god ray...