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General/Other - Kotal Kahn Kotal Kahn General Discussion

What is your favorite Variation?

  • War God

    Votes: 170 42.0%
  • Sun God

    Votes: 139 34.3%
  • Blood God

    Votes: 61 15.1%
  • All Equally

    Votes: 35 8.6%

  • Total voters
    405

Second Saint

A man with too many names.
I actually like blood god better than war god. I just can't get into war gods playstyle.
And therein lies the upside to variations in general. Same character, different playstyles for different people. I just wish Blood had more to offer than it does. Safe strings, better normals, maybe actually decent zoning tools, something to set it apart besides totem buffs. Probably not the zoning tools actually. Could you imagine how scary a zoning version of Kotal would be sitting in a sun ray?

I'm glad you like it though. Hope it works out and we find some great tech for it one day.
 
If Blood God had just one more move, something he could cancel into to make strings either safer or to mix up out of them, I think he would be a good character. Actually, combine Sun and Blood God, then you have a full character to compete with War God. Then give him another variation actually based around his sun based moves and call THAT one Sun God, then he could have a zoning/hard footsies variation and Blood God wouldn't suck.

But in the real world... I actually don't know what can be done. Totems being much faster might help. What to do with Sun God though? Speed up the grab and up the un-upgraded damage but other than that I'm not sure.
 

Second Saint

A man with too many names.
If Blood God had just one more move, something he could cancel into to make strings either safer or to mix up out of them, I think he would be a good character. Actually, combine Sun and Blood God, then you have a full character to compete with War God. Then give him another variation actually based around his sun based moves and call THAT one Sun God, then he could have a zoning/hard footsies variation and Blood God wouldn't suck.

But in the real world... I actually don't know what can be done. Totems being much faster might help. What to do with Sun God though? Speed up the grab and up the un-upgraded damage but other than that I'm not sure.
Maybe some real Anti-zoner tools? Kotal is pretty weak against that in all variations. Just make Sun God impossible to avoid. Sun beams immobilize for .5/1/2 seconds depending on stacks? I really shouldn't throw out ideas. It always feels wrong to call for changes, especially when I know they're only hypothetical.
 
Reactions: mkl

mkl

Poopbutt.
Maybe some real Anti-zoner tools? Kotal is pretty weak against that in all variations. Just make Sun God impossible to avoid. Sun beams immobilize for .5/1/2 seconds depending on stacks? I really shouldn't throw out ideas. It always feels wrong to call for changes, especially when I know they're only hypothetical.
I agree. If Blood God had a better projectile or maybe quicker sun startup it would actually be a usable variation. That would make sense to give him something like that as well since he can't do much against heavy zoning.
 

delbuster

hungry
can i just get the lv3 animation for lv1 cmd grab w/ sun god
it can do less damage than 7%
i just wanna sun beam em
 

Crayraven

Mortal
And therein lies the upside to variations in general. Same character, different playstyles for different people. I just wish Blood had more to offer than it does. Safe strings, better normals, maybe actually decent zoning tools, something to set it apart besides totem buffs. Probably not the zoning tools actually. Could you imagine how scary a zoning version of Kotal would be sitting in a sun ray?

I'm glad you like it though. Hope it works out and we find some great tech for it one day.
Only thing I wish for is for blood totem to actually work and sun/god ray to be affected by crystal totem and blood sacrifice damage modifier. Maybe sun/god ray could use a faster start up as well.

The perspective I have of blood god is that its the variation that controls the tempo of the fight. The tool set allows you to control if you want to do more damage to the enemy, or for the enemy to do less damage to you and if blood totem did work, you could control the enemies meter. Blood god also has the best chip damage of the three variations when crystal totem is up.
 
The problem is, that putting down a totem that reduces the damage your opponent can do to you is actually silly.

Like, what will you actually ever use it for? The only thing I could think of is throwing it down when you confirm block on an unsafe string to reduce the punish damage.... but that is just silly damage and War God could have just made itself safe...
 

Hassun

Noob
I definitely think the Blood God variation is the weakest of the three. Sure he's great for combo videos with ridiculous damage but actually utilizing the totems effectively seems next to impossible. You basically have to be able to set them up safely in combos but that means you must already be in on your opponent...
 

Crayraven

Mortal
The problem is, that putting down a totem that reduces the damage your opponent can do to you is actually silly.

Like, what will you actually ever use it for? The only thing I could think of is throwing it down when you confirm block on an unsafe string to reduce the punish damage.... but that is just silly damage and War God could have just made itself safe...
The way I use totems is dependent upon what I feel the opponent will do next and judging by their initial play style. If I feel they will attempt to do a rush down, I use obsidian totem. If I'm being close to cornered I drop obsidian totem. If I have the opponent on the defensive I use crystal totem, to increase the pressure. Those are just a few examples.

I found my greatest success with blood god comes from keeping adequate spacing between the opponent and myself.
 

Crayraven

Mortal
I definitely think the Blood God variation is the weakest of the three. Sure he's great for combo videos with ridiculous damage but actually utilizing the totems effectively seems next to impossible. You basically have to be able to set them up safely in combos but that means you must already be in on your opponent...
Initially I felt that as well. But as I played a bit more, I started to feel that sun god was the weakest of the three. Blood god does just as much damage with crystal totem up and a throw than a lvl 3 sun choke. Of course there are some advantages, ex sun choke is armored and sun choke can't be tech and it can be used as combo finisher. So its not necessarily a fair comparison.
 

Hassun

Noob
I found my greatest success with blood god comes from keeping adequate spacing between the opponent and myself.
I think that is key to Kotal Kahn in general. He's bad at long range but also at very short range (slightly better with Sun God but still not great) because his normals and mixups aren't anything to write home about. I think the ideal range for Kotal is medium at all times. Most of his pokes and quick combos reach pretty far and even his command throw has decent range. His infamous f2 also travels quite far before coming out.
 

KeyserSoze

Fabled Villain
The problem is, that putting down a totem that reduces the damage your opponent can do to you is actually silly.

Like, what will you actually ever use it for? The only thing I could think of is throwing it down when you confirm block on an unsafe string to reduce the punish damage.... but that is just silly damage and War God could have just made itself safe...
I think you are drastically underrating the value of the obsidian totem. It's a buff. You don't "use it for" anything in particular, other than to buff yourself. You take 34% less damage with it active. Obviously, you don't know exactly when you will be hit over the course of a match, but with it out, you can be rest assured that you will be taking a lot less damage when you get hit compared with what your opponent will endure when he gets hit.

In general, totems should be placed on the screen after every hard knockdown and after every blocked 114 or 4 (both always allow a safe totem activation on block).
 

Crayraven

Mortal
I think that is key to Kotal Kahn in general. He's bad at long range but also at very short range (slightly better with Sun God but still not great) because his normals and mixups aren't anything to write home about. I think the ideal range for Kotal is medium at all times. Most of his pokes and quick combos reach pretty far and even his command throw has decent range. His infamous f2 also travels quite far before coming out.
To be honest, I'm not quite sure where Kotal Kahn exactly belongs in regards to spacing. Looking at his tool set, its a bit strange. He doesn't really have a way to open up the opponent, doesn't have a good wake up move, has a slow projectile, most moves have a long startups. Currently I feel he is the type of character that relies on opponents making mistakes, then landing big damage. At least for blood god and maybe sun god. I'm not too sure about war god, I really haven't got into the variation.
 

KeyserSoze

Fabled Villain
blood god is definitely the worst version; it has the worst defensive options
I definitely think the Blood God variation is the weakest of the three. Sure he's great for combo videos with ridiculous damage but actually utilizing the totems effectively seems next to impossible. You basically have to be able to set them up safely in combos but that means you must already be in on your opponent...
I disagree. I think Sun God is most likely his worst variation, overall. (I happen to think all three are viable)

Also, totems are meant to be put down on just about every hard knockdown and on just about every blocked 114, 4, Sunstone, and Ex-Sunstone. People make a big deal about getting in, but Blood God Kotal doesn't really want to fully get in. Instead, Blood God Kotal wants to use his awesome rangey normals to play footsies and whiff-punish just inside of half screen.
 
So I kind of came up with an option select kinda sorta that has to do with buffering, its pretty cool imo and really useful and makes fishing a lot easier(Haven't seen it posted) Enjoy Fellas.

 

Crimzon-ET

Got Face Huggers?
Hey, what's up fellow Osh-Tekk warriors! I am new to playing fighting games on a competitive level but I am really liking MKX and maining Kotal Kahn.

Personally I want to main Kotal Kahn in all of his variations. But for now I seem to be getting the best results in matches and tournaments with the Sun God variation. I think it's because of the utility of the Sun Choke command grab and using it to tick grab the opponent after spamming D1 to make them respect my inside sweep range by stuffing their string attempts and also by ending some staggered block strings and ending strings in combos with it. I also noticed that the only block string that works as a tick into Sun Choke is Kotal Kahn's Cuazquia B1-4 string. If the opponent blocks the low at the end of the string they can get ticked into a command grabbed.

As for Blood God I think that it is a much more complex variation that requires good reads with Mace Parry and knowing when to set the opponent up for big damage with the Crystal Totem, or buff Kotal Kahn's defense with the Obsidian Totem and Sun Rays, or when to set up a way to gain some health back and drain a bar of meter from the opponent with the Blood Totem. I haven't messed with War God that much but it seems like a good option for Kotal Kahn to gain some mid range offense and better combo opportunities.

The main thing that I think that I am having the hardest time with Kotal Kahn and really MKX in general is knowing when to attack after my opponent's strings. Even when I think I am safe or at an advantage I get hit. Most of the time by attempting to do Kotal Kahn's fastest combo starter poke B1,or D1, or just simply letting go of block when I think the string is over only to get hit with another move that either is an extension of the string or another move that was combo during the string. Even when I get into a neutral situation after a string attempt by either me or my opponent most of my attempts to land a B1 or F2 get stuffed by the opponent. I guess I just need more time to remember the strings of my opponent and figured out what I can do to punish and counter them.

When it comes to zoning I have had my share of problems. I got blown up really bad in Top 8 at a MKX tournament yesterday by a Kitana player,Ha! I was being patient and ducking the fans and advancing forward in between the fans but whenever I got into range to do something I was getting stuffed. It seemed really bad during the match but after some advice from another player and thinking it over. I actually think Kitana's zoning can be managed by some of Kotal Kahn's tools. The other player suggested duck blocking the fans instead of just ducking them and then canceling my block into run to close the gap faster. Then the thing I think I could have done better when I was in range to hit Kitana was to do Kotal Kahn's AA command grab while she was in the air instead of just trying to land F2 and B1-B2 for a launcher.

Edit: Thanks for posting your tech video for Kotal Kahn @sPaB RoG! This is really helpful information.
 
So I kind of came up with an option select kinda sorta that has to do with buffering, its pretty cool imo and really useful and makes fishing a lot easier(Haven't seen it posted) Enjoy Fellas.
This has been all over the place for days, yeah it is really important.

I especially like OSing this particular string with this particular special because you still get the mind game of releasing the unblockable, neutral jumping or just blocking afterwards. Really good OS.

All War God players should be able to OS all their strings on hit/block I think, with how unsafe some of his strings are it is incredibly important.
 

LeeVanDam

Sun God Advocate
Guys, how does Kotal get in on a Full Auto Jacqui?
By putting in a lot of work. Duck > walk forward, don't get low missiled or hit by that armoured charge.
Exactly what Tomo said. Just duck the bullets, and be sure to block/jump the missles if Jacqui meter burns (yes, you can jump over the missles... but it's a read). Good news is, she doesn't have many tools to get you back out once you're in :)