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Knicks Vs P2w Where does Darkseid stand?

EMPEROR_KNICKS

EMPEROR_KNICKS

Master of Kombat(frauds)
To give a little history me and p2w had a small beef about how good or bad Darkseid is, he thinks the character is trash I thought he was high or high mid, so we played at first i was shmixing but then i got zoned out and realized the matchup was buns. The score was like 15-9 , and ima upload it in a day or 2., anyway we had a phone convo, and i will add @PLAYING TO WIN is a pretty chill dude, I Told him about look how good darkseids mix is and that only deadshot can zone darkseid like that, and I told him against anyone else in the cast darkseid can shmix and punish zoning and doesnt have to walk in, I also changed my mu about deadshot yah that shits like a 7-3 rn post patch probs not. Anyway after are convo P2w thinks the char is like high mid now between 10-12 i I too agree rn, but hes prob gonna be like 9th after the patch.
 
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PLAYING TO WIN

Champion
I do think the char is a bit better. Prob A-A+ and around 10th on the tier list. We will see how it goes when DS gets nerfed.

Knicks started out strong and was playing aggressive and went up 9-3. I adjusted and remembered my darkseid stuff and went on a 12 game win streak to close it out. (had to sorry knicks)

Deadshot has tools to really shut down a lot of darkseid a offense. High shot and the j1 are extremely good in that match. Darkseid continues to be high risk and high reward with sub par footsies and neutral buttons.

As I said I was able to start dodging almost every neutral demon mix up and at worst I was getting hit out of the air. Once I started jumping the setups he adjusted but a bit too late.

Vggs I will write more when it’s uploaded. I didn’t show up to the set until game 12 or so lol. Once I shook the DS rust off it was on. Not taking anything from knicks bc he was doing some stuff I have never seen before.

Spoke to knicks after and he is a very good kid and was open to discussion he is going to be a great player in the years to come.
 
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PLAYING TO WIN

Champion
Ask knicks made a good point to me. There are very few characters that can handle darkseid the way deadshot could. DS will eat a lot more teleports. Now I can spam high shot and recover in time to punish teles. Won’t be the case post patch.
 
EMPEROR_KNICKS

EMPEROR_KNICKS

Master of Kombat(frauds)
" A Bit" the char went from being a utility character like grodd,robin, ivy to like possibly top 10 or slightly below lol, but yah p2w changed his mind boys. But anyway the main issue vs deadshot is the zoning and getting out trait, and not punishing zoning options.
 
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Eldriken

Guest
If I've learned anything about Darkseid from Knicks, it's whiffing a d1 from mid-to-full screen and then doing Omega Beams hits a loooot of people.

While I don't think Darkseid is an absolute shit character, I don't personally feel he's top 10. But then again, I don't think anyone else plays Darkseid like Knicks does, including myself.
 
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Basic Stupidity

Warrior
Personally I disagree with darkseid not making the top 10. He really dominates MUs and even tho he has bad MUs, he still is a very good character. I still would like to play p2w with my darkseid tho :)
 
Johnny Based Cage

Johnny Based Cage

The Shangest of Tsungs
Great to see you guys working it out on the battlefield and discussing things like grown-ups and being open to changing your opinions and all that good shit. Can't wait to see the set.

I don't think it's that Deadshot can handle Darkseid in a way few others can so much as Darkseid not being able to handle Deadshot in the same way he can handle most, though. Let me explain.

Darkseid's "zoning" is a total bill that really serves more of an anti-zoning purpose. He can keep most characters (not named Deadshot) who prefer to get a projectile game going from doing so with the knockdown on laser trades being in his favor, the threat of teleport, and so on and so forth, but he's not actually keeping anyone out with his shit or wrecking anyone from full screen or anything like that (any actual zoning). The most he's doing against characters who do wanna get in on him is making them hesitate and buying time for his only real threat potential: trait/mix opportunities.

Pretty much the whole cast can at least get in after ducking his lasers if not outright punish them, though. It's just that he makes a lot of characters who don't normally want to get in uncomfortable by contesting so well with what they normally try to do. Except (pre-patch) Deadshot, of course. Deadshot is one zoner Darkseid's counterzoning cant really handle.

I think such mediocre zoning and such utterly garbage buttons mean the character's going to have to work hard against patient, reactive players who realize the only threat he actually poses is getting his trait out and his mix going, though. Teleports can be reacted to by any character who hasn't already over-extended themselves and lasers pose such little threat that they should never really have to over-extend themselves in the first place.

Don't get me wrong, he's not a complete shitter and is totally viable, but holy shit is he getting way too much credit if you ask me. I don't think there are only 5-10 characters who are at least potentially better than him lol. That's my two cents at least and I'd love to hear @General M2Dave share his.
 
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Basic Stupidity

Warrior
Johnny Based Cage said:
Great to see you guys working it out on the battlefield and discussing things like grown-ups and being open to changing your opinions and all that good shit. Can't wait to see the set.

I don't think it's that Deadshot can handle Darkseid in a way few others can so much as Darkseid not being able to handle Deadshot in the same way he can handle most, though. Let me explain.

Darkseid's "zoning" is a total bill that really serves more of an anti-zoning purpose. He can keep most characters (not named Deadshot) who prefer to get a projectile game going from doing so with the knockdown on laser trades being in his favor, the threat of teleport, and so on and so forth, but he's not actually keeping anyone out with his shit or wrecking anyone from full screen or anything like that (any actual zoning). The most he's doing against characters who do wanna get in on him is making them hesitate and buying time for his only real threat potential: trait/mix opportunities.

Pretty much the whole cast can at least get in after ducking his lasers if not outright punish them, though. It's just that he makes a lot of characters who don't normally want to get in uncomfortable by contesting so well with what they normally try to do. Except (pre-patch) Deadshot, of course. Deadshot is one zoner Darkseid's counterzoning cant really handle.

I think such mediocre zoning and such utterly garbage buttons mean the character's going to have to work hard against patient, reactive players who realize the only threat he actually poses is getting his trait out and his mix going, though. Teleports can be reacted to by any character who hasn't already over-extended themselves and lasers pose such little threat that they should never really have to over-extend themselves in the first place.

Don't get me wrong, he's not a complete shitter and is totally viable, but holy shit is he getting way too much credit if you ask me. I don't think there are only 5-10 characters who are at least potentially better than him lol. That's my two cents at least and I'd love to hear @General M2Dave share his.
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the thing about the deadshot mirror is I dont feel its that bad its not like a 7-3. Darkseid can read high shots and trade with them which gives him a free trait setup. sure he may not be able to get a free mix off of it everytime but he can still use the trait in addition with his zoning which will help compete against deadshots. Not only this but he also can get a free trait setup with a well placed air mb laser. Deadshot has counters to these but both of those counters once again can be punished by darkseid so its not like darkseid has no options in the mu. Additionally, darkseids attacks in general will be dealing more damage so you do not need a ton of accurate guesses. As long as you dont play the MU like a mad man, you shouldnt have massive difficulties
 
Invincible Salads

Invincible Salads

Seeker of knowledge
Eldriken said:
If I've learned anything about Darkseid from Knicks, it's whiffing a d1 from mid-to-full screen and then doing Omega Beams hits a loooot of people.

While I don't think Darkseid is an absolute shit character, I don't personally feel he's top 10. But then again, I don't think anyone else plays Darkseid like Knicks does, including myself.
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i feel like darkseid is definitely up there
 
Zhidoreptiloid

Zhidoreptiloid

Watcher from the sky
bats down, deadshot down, redhood down, than those, who upped or tn touched, will up there, yes. And darseid too.
But DS is not that type of character, where u can press buttons and win, no.
 
EMPEROR_KNICKS

EMPEROR_KNICKS

Master of Kombat(frauds)
Basic Stupidity said:
the thing about the deadshot mirror is I dont feel its that bad its not like a 7-3. Darkseid can read high shots and trade with them which gives him a free trait setup. sure he may not be able to get a free mix off of it everytime but he can still use the trait in addition with his zoning which will help compete against deadshots. Not only this but he also can get a free trait setup with a well placed air mb laser. Deadshot has counters to these but both of those counters once again can be punished by darkseid so its not like darkseid has no options in the mu. Additionally, darkseids attacks in general will be dealing more damage so you do not need a ton of accurate guesses. As long as you dont play the MU like a mad man, you shouldnt have massive difficulties
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Unless your talking about post patch this is false lol, darkseid cant read highshots or really interrupt them deadshot can just straight shot over and over and literally throw out 2 shots and duck the laser, deadshot not having recovery on straight shot means he also can react to teles to if he takes a small step, and unless ur full screen straight shot punishes xx laser into trait call with straight shot, darkseid basically cant get in the entire match and cant play his game.
 
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Basic Stupidity

Warrior
EMPEROR_KNICKS said:
Unless your talking about post patch this is false lol, darkseid cant read highshots or really interrupt them deadshot can just straight shot over and over and literally throw out 2 shots and duck the laser, deadshot not having recovery on straight shot means he also can react to teles to if he takes a small step, and unless ur full screen straight shot punishes xx laser into trait call with straight shot, darkseid basically cant get in the entire match and cant play his game.
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First of all when are you not at fullscreen at this mu? the neutral is definitely almost always taking place at fullscreen.
Second, what are you talking about? Darkseid most definitely can read and if timed properly trade with the high shot. Its not like high shot has literally no startup and recovery frames, its still plenty possible to hit the deadshot out of it. Now I definitely feel like I shouldve played.
 
EMPEROR_KNICKS

EMPEROR_KNICKS

Master of Kombat(frauds)
Basic Stupidity said:
First of all when are you not at fullscreen at this mu? the neutral is definitely almost always taking place at fullscreen.
Second, what are you talking about? Darkseid most definitely can read and if timed properly trade with the high shot. Its not like high shot has literally no startup and recovery frames, its still plenty possible to hit the deadshot out of it. Now I definitely feel like I shouldve played.
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Play p2w be my guest lol, the as long as deadshot is not mindlessly throwing out straight shot you are almost never going to trade, regardless deadshot wins the zoning war, and deadshots straightshot might as well not have startup or recovery.
 
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Basic Stupidity

Warrior
EMPEROR_KNICKS said:
Play p2w be my guest lol, the as long as deadshot is not mindlessly throwing out straight shot you are almost never going to trade, regardless deadshot wins the zoning war, and deadshots straightshot might as well not have startup or recovery.
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ive played plenty of deadshots and have been able to get the trade im sure it wont be too bad. dont get me wrong here im not saying that darkseid wins this mu im just saying its not 7-3 deadshot
 
EMPEROR_KNICKS

EMPEROR_KNICKS

Master of Kombat(frauds)
Basic Stupidity said:
ive played plenty of deadshots and have been able to get the trade im sure it wont be too bad. dont get me wrong here im not saying that darkseid wins this mu im just saying its not 7-3 deadshot
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Most deadshots play it wrong, p2w plays it different I mean no offense but ive played ur darkseid and ur not gonna do well against p2w imo.
 
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PLAYING TO WIN

Champion
EMPEROR_KNICKS said:
Most deadshots play it wrong, p2w plays it different I mean no offense but ive played ur darkseid and ur not gonna do well against p2w imo.
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Just get the video up so people can see. I made my adjustments and muscle memory came back around game 10. The mix was real until that point.

DS shuts darkseid down not only in zoning but neutral and that’s even more important. 5frame j1 is amazing for air tele
 
Johnny Based Cage

Johnny Based Cage

The Shangest of Tsungs
ChatterBox said:
This is how you build a community.
Talk about matchups, tools, and options.
Play.
Talk about it more.
Invite everyone else to see, talk, and play.

Well done guys.
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Couldn't agree more. This thread is the shit for even existing.

I think people are underrating @EMPEROR_KNICKS and overrating Darkseid if just one of the better Deadshots around can go on a 12 game winning streak to close out the set and still thinks the character sucks after playing the best (and only, really) competitive Darkseid that's left though lol.
 
B

Basic Stupidity

Warrior
EMPEROR_KNICKS said:
You dont play high level deadshots.
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I havent seen the video of you guys play but it seems like you prolly let deadshot get his game going. What i think youre supposed to do is go for hard reads constantly and keep the deadshot on his toes. you cant just sit there and wait for a chance to yolo tele, that obviously isnt going to work
 
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Eldriken

Guest
Basic Stupidity said:
I havent seen the video of you guys play but it seems like you prolly let deadshot get his game going. What i think youre supposed to do is go for hard reads constantly and keep the deadshot on his toes. you cant just sit there and wait for a chance to yolo tele, that obviously isnt going to work
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I think Knicks knows what he's doing considering he's the ONLY Darkseid that has done or won anything.
 
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