Kitana Matchup Discussion Thread

[xKhaoTik]

I responded to some high lvl Twitter players about Highborn being a Jade counter and they all scoffed at me and said Jade crushes any Kitana variation including HB.

At the lvl I play at, HB is definitely easier for to use against Jade me than noob saibot lol.

Imo HB beats Jade hands down. It’s just a different way to go about the MU since Kitana has to change her style a bit, but it’s still enough to shut down a lot of Jade’s tools.

 

[Bigzo]

Anyone got bullet points for the Erron Black MU?

I can’t play footsies with this guy to save my life. The strings and staggers that create the most space with kitana can be closed with his pistol whip f2 and f3 kick. It’s satisfying to catching a forward 4 or slide with either down 4. Down 1, standing 1, or back 1, but good errorns will wait until I miss one of them and then go on. It’s sliding mix ups and acid from there.

 

[M2Dave]

In my opinion...

Scorpion
6-4 Highborn

5:5. Spear cannot be punished at certain ranges on block or whiff so Scorpion can control the pace of the match and turtle, especially when he has a life lead.

Noob Saibot
5-5 Highborn

Highborn loses 6:4 because b+1,1+3 cannot be punished on block. Noob has better strings, throws, and low pokes.

Jade
6-4 Highborn

6:4 in Jade's favor. Dodging Shadows ignore fans and razors and severely limit Kitana's footsies, zoning, and anti-aerial game. Upward razor-rang hits dive kick on the way down very consistently and is difficult to whiff punish.

Robocop
6-4 Highborn

5:5, but I am only theorizing. Low auto and parry easily shut down Kitana's zoning and anti-zoning game so she has to fight up close. He has a 10 frame string and krushing blows on both throws.

Sheeva
7-3 Highborn

Sheeva has a skew hitbox that allows her to back dash razors after certain strings. I doubt Kitana wins 7:3.

Cetrion
6-4 Highborn

5:5. Cetrion is too good of a character to lose to Kitana, but Highborn does better than most characters.

 

[xKhaoTik]

6:4 in Jade's favor. Dodging Shadows ignore fans and razors and severely limit Kitana's footsies, zoning, and anti-aerial game. Upward razor-rang hits dive kick on the way down very consistently and is difficult to whiff punish.

When will she be able to do it tho? Other than a knock down, if she does glow, it gets punished by teleport on reaction.
Up Glaive isn’t that big of a deal. Kitana can just duck. Anything else jade throws gets punished on reaction with tele.

5:5. Cetrion is too good of a character to lose to Kitana, but Highborn does better than most characters.

I don’t think this is even at all. Almost everything kitana does shuts cetrion down. Fans/air > boulder/geyser/laser
Teleport punishes a boulder on reaction
Her tendril is a decent answer against fans but if that’s blocked, teleport. Geyser is a good answer from full screen against it but if she’s in punish range, bad answer.

Of course Cetrion has the teleport but she has to spend a lot of recourses to make that “safe”, otherwise Kitana can bait and punish. Highborn isn’t known for damage and it’s still out damages cetrion. Highborn’s unbreakable damage is greater as well and doesn’t cost meter, unlike Cetrion who has to spend a bar or 2

Cetrion has faster buttons but Kitana has the better range and she outfootsies her.

I think this is just one of those obscure MUs where a top character loses to a lower tiered character.

 

[xWildx]

When will she be able to do it tho? Other than a knock down, if she does glow, it gets punished by teleport on reaction.
Up Glaive isn’t that big of a deal. Kitana can just duck. Anything else jade throws gets punished on reaction with tele.

I don’t think this is even at all. Almost everything kitana does shuts cetrion down. Fans/air > boulder/geyser/laser
Teleport punishes a boulder on reaction
Her tendril is a decent answer against fans but if that’s blocked, teleport. Geyser is a good answer from full screen against it but if she’s in punish range, bad answer.

Of course Cetrion has the teleport but she has to spend a lot of recourses to make that “safe”, otherwise Kitana can bait and punish. Highborn isn’t known for damage and it’s still out damages cetrion. Highborn’s unbreakable damage is greater as well and doesn’t cost meter, unlike Cetrion who has to spend a bar or 2

Cetrion has faster buttons but Kitana has the better range and she outfootsies her.

I think this is just one of those obscure MUs where a top character loses to a lower tiered character.

No one is reacting to glow on reaction like that every time. Especially if you’re looking for things like glow kicks, low projectiles, ranged normals, and everything else.

If Jade gets the lifelead it’s hard as fuck to open her up again as Kitana. B2 interrupts almost everything Kitana tries to do ( even when Jade is negative), and Jade actually has a backdash. Granted, all of this comes from me playing a Jade that actually knows the Kitana MU.

 

[M2Dave]

When will she be able to do it tho? Other than a knock down, if she does glow, it gets punished by teleport on reaction. Up Glaive isn’t that big of a deal. Kitana can just duck. Anything else jade throws gets punished on reaction with tele.

You cannot punish razor-rang, upward razor rang, Edenian spark, and dodging shadows on reaction when a competent Jade player rotates and mixes up these four options very well. Upward razor-rang kind of looks like the regular razor-rang and consistently hits the dive kick on the way down.

No one is reacting to glow on reaction like that every time. Especially if you’re looking for things like glow kicks, low projectiles, ranged normals, and everything else.

This.

I don’t think this is even at all. Almost everything kitana does shuts cetrion down. Fans/air > boulder/geyser/laser
Teleport punishes a boulder on reaction
Her tendril is a decent answer against fans but if that’s blocked, teleport. Geyser is a good answer from full screen against it but if she’s in punish range, bad answer.

Of course Cetrion has the teleport but she has to spend a lot of recourses to make that “safe”, otherwise Kitana can bait and punish. Highborn isn’t known for damage and it’s still out damages cetrion. Highborn’s unbreakable damage is greater as well and doesn’t cost meter, unlike Cetrion who has to spend a bar or 2

Cetrion has faster buttons but Kitana has the better range and she outfootsies her.

I think this is just one of those obscure MUs where a top character loses to a lower tiered character.

Cetrion players who understand the Highborn match up should rarely rely on lasers and boulders. Aside from a couple of okizeme situations, boulders in particular have limited use against Highborn. Geysers are Cetrion's best option because the Kitana player cannot react to them and they are safe on block anywhere on the screen except up close. So Cetrion players should turtle, chip with geysers, and bait the dive kick. Cetrion has to take risks in order to punish fans, but the reward on teleport and vine grab is even, if not in Cetrion's favor. Unless she gets hit by double amplified dive kick, she can back dash and avoid all of Kitana's normal attacks. She also has access to a full-screen fatal blow, which threatens Kitana's zoning at the end of rounds and surrenders the control of the match to Cetrion.

This match comes down to life leads and correct reads on zoning. Both characters have no krushing blows on throws and limited okizeme after throws so whoever establishes the life lead has a significant advantage. Kitana has a higher damage output, but Cetrion has the superior fatal blow considering the zoning nature of the match.

 

[Arqwart]

Imo HB beats Jade hands down. It’s just a different way to go about the MU since Kitana has to change her style a bit, but it’s still enough to shut down a lot of Jade’s tools.

I'm of the complete opposite opinion. I feel Highborn is Kitana's WORST option against Jade, even worse than Fearless. Fanfare oddly is your best option here as you're never going to be able to play from a distance against Jade. Ground War and regular Fan Lift give Kitana a charging ground punish and the combo potential to beat out Jade's death by a thousand cuts style. For the ED matchup, Fanfare has everything she needs to almost never feel threatened by any projectile Jade chooses to toss out.

• Razor-rang? Absorb. It's slow as hell so easily reacted to even at closer ranges
• Razor-Rang amplified? Duck them both, or jump over the first then float over the second so you at least got some distance covered.
• Edenian Spark? Hop, jump, flawless block, or absorb on reaction pretty easily.
• Upward Razor-rang? It's Jade. You shouldn't be jumping except in reaction to things anyway.
• Upward Razor-rang amplified? Learn the weird distance on the second one and either dodge or absorb it. You can also just Ground War her with no risk during the animation if mid-range or closer.
• Air Razor-rang? This is the only potentially tricky one and takes some adjustment based on what the Jade is doing. Depending on distance and Jade's height, you always have options.
  • Very far: jump forward -> float -> air fan (if not glowing)
    • EDIT: Forgot you can also just ignore the first one and absorb the second here
  • Far: jump forward -> float -> air fan (if not glowing) or butt
  • Mid (high Jade): jump back -> float -> air fan (if not glowing) or butt
    • This assumes you didn't have to block the first. If you did, it will jail into the next
  • Mid (low Jade): jump back -> air fan (if not glowing)
    • This assumes you didn't have to block the first. If you did, it will jail into the next
  • Close (high Jade): literally what is she doing. Just walk under her and wait to punish
  • Close (low Jade): worst case scenario. You basically gotta eat the chip and post-landing follow-up

For the Jaded matchup, you have the combo power to beat her damage output on all hitconfirms and punishes (especially with the auto-KB on armor break with butt). Amplified vault run is only +2 and leaves Jade at a distance from which she cannot jail a single thing. Depending on what the Jade is doing post-amp, you can shut her out easily. Duck highs and punish with 12 Lift combos, jump back into immediate float and J2 punish if she's mashing D4, short hop into whatever, etc. Even on incorrect guesses to her follow-up, you're not going to eat much damage (especially in comparison to your combos). For cancel pressure, it's a little rough as Kitana's normals and pokes aren't the fastest; but that's universal no matter the variation.

What on earth does Highborn have that's going to help at all against a Jade aside from hoping razor loops carry you to victory? Sai and Fans basically aren't ever going to land, teleport is super easily baited and punished, and Razor block pressure literally does not work against Glow so you'll get blown up.

 

[DarksydeDash]

Anyone got bullet points for the Erron Black MU?

I can’t play footsies with this guy to save my life. The strings and staggers that create the most space with kitana can be closed with his pistol whip f2 and f3 kick. It’s satisfying to catching a forward 4 or slide with either down 4. Down 1, standing 1, or back 1, but good errorns will wait until I miss one of them and then go on. It’s sliding mix ups and acid from there.

• Scud shot really shuts down Kitana's neutral but you can use d3 to low profile or fanfare to parry the projectile
• D3 can be used to interrupt F32
• D4 from Erron can really harass us because it low profiles all of our mids, with the exception being Fearless' low fan toss but that special is unsafe, especially if they can flawless block.
• Erron's sweep can low profile Kitana's wakeups which essentially means you have to sit in acid and guess strike or throw.
• F4 can go over low fan toss in fearless
• Highborn's sai toss and teleport beat scud shot but the slow startup lets Erron punish with F4 or slide
• Barking Irons isn't too bad because of no scud shot but his unbreakable damage, especially on acid hurts. Slide cancels can be checked only on a read due to Kitana's slow mids.
• Locked and Loaded has one of the best the best Armor breaks in the game, lets him cover his gaps, and make all of his pokes a meterless Johnny Cage Rising Star
  
  

• In my opinion...
  
  
  
  5:5. Spear cannot be punished at certain ranges on block or whiff so Scorpion can control the pace of the match and turtle, especially when he has a life lead.
  
  
  
  Highborn loses 6:4 because b+1,1+3 cannot be punished on block. Noob has better strings, throws, and low pokes.
  
  
  
  6:4 in Jade's favor. Dodging Shadows ignore fans and razors and severely limit Kitana's footsies, zoning, and anti-aerial game. Upward razor-rang hits dive kick on the way down very consistently and is difficult to whiff punish.
  
  
  
  5:5, but I am only theorizing. Low auto and parry easily shut down Kitana's zoning and anti-zoning game so she has to fight up close. He has a 10 frame string and krushing blows on both throws.
  
  
  
  Sheeva has a skew hitbox that allows her to back dash razors after certain strings. I doubt Kitana wins 7:3.
  
  
  
  5:5. Cetrion is too good of a character to lose to Kitana, but Highborn does better than most characters.

• While spear can not always be punished, the ability to interrupt Scorpion's primary mid is devasting and makes it difficult for him to have a life lead. When I played Avirk, he relied on hit confirming either F3 and B2 with teleport cancels but all that did ended up doing was resetting neutral when I had the life lead. I also want to mention that the Scorpion player will need to hold a fan toss after a blocked spear if they are not full screen, allowing Kitana to lame out via chip.

• This is a good point, as his d3 really harasses us but B1 1+3 being safe on block still means the Noob Saibot player has to hold a fan toss or F2 string from us which can still let the Highborn player get chip damage. Of course this doesn't apply if only the 1+3 portion is blocked is since Noob will be pushed further away on block.

• Once glow runs out, the Jade player can no longer use it in the neutral without being punished via teleport, and the same applies for any type of zoning option. In terms of upward glaive, Kitana can teleport punish but you must time the teleport as the glaives advance toward Kitana, this can be negated if the Jade player spends a bar on the upward glaive, however. Lastly, d3 can be used to interrupt b3434 without a flawless block gap and Kitana's D2 can also interrupt non-amp'd pole vault during block strings.

• Agreed it might be too early to judge the Robocop MU. When I was running a set with Dab, I quickly found out that rocket can catch teleport (since he can hold the amp version) and parry beats teleport. However, the combination of sai toss and reacting to projectiles with teleport shut his zoning down. On paper it seems like Highborn beats the lame game, while fanfare and fearless could be evenly matched. I also want to make a mention of Robocop's other variations as I found the variation with the caltrops and the buff that makes the opponent hurt themselves can be used when Robocop is the corner. It creates this situation similar to Kotal Kahn in a sunray but the Kitana player essentially loses 15% life from Robo either getting hit or blocking her. Lastly, his variation with the mid cmd throw is a huge threat after post razors block since we have to either jump or hold 16% each time.

• You're kidding.. That changes perspective on Sheeva from being a 7-3 then. That said, I still think we win since we can play the zoning and anti-zoning game.

• I think Kitana's fan toss generally shuts down a lot of Cetrion's gameplan, especially because it catches her air projectiles and back dash. Any trades also are in our favor since we get a sai toss out for free. Being able to always get a meterless punish from flawless blocking wall also helps. In the Born Again MU where geyser is not available, the Cetrion player can no longer frame trap from fullscreen. Additionally, Highborn's teleport does punish her vine grab from anywhere on screen should you block it. It definitely feels like Kitana can go even with her as a base but Highborn gives her the tools to counter her. Only time will tell though.

 

[Bigzo]

How can I escape joker as fan fare. My friends week 1 joker beats the brakes off me. His back 1 checks everything I do and is a fast stagger

 

[John_NX]

How can I escape joker as fan fare. My friends week 1 joker beats the brakes off me. His back 1 checks everything I do and is a fast stagger

Because that bitch is broken.

 

[DarksydeDash]

How can I escape joker as fan fare. My friends week 1 joker beats the brakes off me. His back 1 checks everything I do and is a fast stagger

Predict the stagger with s12 since he can trade with your pokes or even throw you out of them if you hestitate. Check him with fan toss after a blocked jack in the box but don't amp it because he can punish it with s2.

 

[Stanlos]

How can I escape joker as fan fare. My friends week 1 joker beats the brakes off me. His back 1 checks everything I do and is a fast stagger

I shamelessly zone versus Joker and capitalize on annoyance. It's disgusting but it's the only thing I know to do. I am not good at the game so this impression may be wrong but it seems like it is a superlosing battle clise to mid. His buttons always bop me out any melee animation I deploy.

 

[xWildx]

Kitana (and I imagine other people) can react to, and forward jump out of, Jade’s pole vault out off her b343 cancel.

While Darksyde noted you can interrupt it with an uppercut, you have to do that on a hard read and you’re still eating some damage regardless. This actually allows you to react to it when you see it and evade all damage.

I’m going to bed so I didn’t test all that much, but you can punish with a jK-Twist. I imagine jK-fan would work too. Characters like Scorpion could probably get a full combo.

 

[PlusFrames]

I’m a newb (and terrible), but any advice for facing Sub with Fan-Fare?

I played KL for the first time last night and got wrecked by two Thin Ices. One I should’ve been able to beat, but the second kept mixing me up with F2s and B3s. I hit training this morning and have a hard time reacting to F2 even offline. I figure it’s best to keep your distance but Ice Ball seems to win the zoning war.

 

[DarksydeDash]

I’m a newb (and terrible), but any advice for facing Sub with Fan-Fare?

I played KL for the first time last night and got wrecked by two Thin Ices. One I should’ve been able to beat, but the second kept mixing me up with F2s and B3s. I hit training this morning and have a hard time reacting to F2 even offline. I figure it’s best to keep your distance but Ice Ball seems to win the zoning war.

This is one of the MUs that I actually prefer fearless for since you zone him out and he can't slide your low fan. That being said, you must be very sparing with fan toss because trades are not in your favor. Trading with fan lift, however, is in your favor.

 

[PlusFrames]

This is one of the MUs that I actually prefer fearless for since you zone him out and he can't slide your low fan. That being said, you must be very sparing with fan toss because trades are not in your favor. Trading with fan lift, however, is in your favor.

Damn, I didn’t even realize he can slide under our normals fans!

I appreciate your advice! I wanted to stay with Fan-Fare for now (still trying to get my bearings with it and it’s my favourite variation) but will dabble with Fearless later tonight to get comfortable with it

 

[DarksydeDash]

Damn, I didn’t even realize he can slide under our normals fans!

I appreciate your advice! I wanted to stay with Fan-Fare for now (still trying to get my bearings with it and it’s my favourite variation) but will dabble with Fearless later tonight to get comfortable with it

yeah and in Highborn he can slide to punish Sai Toss as well. Honestly, I hate being nearly sub zero because it's 50/50 town so fearless lets with just that.

 

[xKhaoTik]

I actually prefer highborn over fearless against sub. Yea the low fan is good against the slide but maaaaannnn, that ice ball trade is demoralizing lol. At least teleport punishes it on reaction and then you’re in.

 

[Bigzo]

I fucking hate sub as fan fare because my boys always play the space game to bait ass, and it’s hard asf to get in because f4 and b2 is always an opition you gotta be mindful of, plus slide or ex iceball

 

[DarksydeDash]

I fucking hate sub as fan fare because my boys always play the space game to bait ass, and it’s hard asf to get in because f4 and b2 is always an opition you gotta be mindful of, plus slide or ex iceball

Precisely, having to come to the Sub Zero player is a nightmare

 

[gitblame]

At this point for me only Fearless is worth to play and for matchups where Fearless does not work I am not going to use Kitana. I can see some players may make Highborn work and Highborn can be super annoying, but I hate this mindgame with razors and there is no plan B with this variation.

 

[DarksydeDash]

At this point for me only Fearless is worth to play and for matchups where Fearless does not work I am not going to use Kitana. I can see some players may make Highborn work and Highborn can be super annoying, but I hate this mindgame with razors and there is no plan B with this variation.

Razors go bbrrr

 

[VELL1]

I’m a newb (and terrible), but any advice for facing Sub with Fan-Fare?

I played KL for the first time last night and got wrecked by two Thin Ices. One I should’ve been able to beat, but the second kept mixing me up with F2s and B3s. I hit training this morning and have a hard time reacting to F2 even offline. I figure it’s best to keep your distance but Ice Ball seems to win the zoning war.

Honestly I am not even sure pros can react to F2 in a match situation.

Like I saw Sonic reacting to either F2 or B3 in training. But in a match, where he can also grab you...I dunno. People keep saying it's reactable, and I can barely do it offline, but I honestly don't know if they can react effectively in a match. Every time I see pros playing Sub they manage to catch them with F2 couple of times.

 

[xWildx]

Honestly I am not even sure pros can react to F2 in a match situation.

Like I saw Sonic reacting to either F2 or B3 in training. But in a match, where he can also grab you...I dunno. People keep saying it's reactable, and I can barely do it offline, but I honestly don't know if they can react effectively in a match. Every time I see pros playing Sub they manage to catch them with F2 couple of times.

People VASTLY overrate what people will and won’t react to. It’s hilarious really. People were getting hit by Mileena’s 32 frame overhead in MKX.

In a vacuum, where you’re concentrated on the one thing you’re looking out for and that’s it? Sure. Reactable. In an actual setting where you’re looking for it and about 90 other options? lol no.

 

[Juxtapose]

People VASTLY overrate what people will and won’t react to. It’s hilarious really. People were getting hit by Mileena’s 32 frame overhead in MKX.

In a vacuum, where you’re concentrated on the one thing you’re looking out for and that’s it? Sure. Reactable. In an actual setting where you’re looking for it and about 90 other options? lol no.

I could never believe how often I was hitting with Mileena's F3. You had six years to react to it, and yet I'd land those hits consistently.

Only against other human players though. The AI it never worked on.