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Kitana General Discussion

D4 sai cancel is definitely unsafe af lol.

B2 is a far advancing mid that’s neutral in block. The second hit is special cancellable, which throws people off. The third hit is -5 on block and is special cancellable. Also it’s -5 after a sai cancel. The other 2 follow ups are safe on block and one of them leads into a KB, but can can be flawlessed blocked. How is that just “ok” and “ass”?
It's the options after b2 I don't like. -5 feels pretty bad to me if there's not significant push back. The last hit of b231343 also randomly whiffs for me if I'm in away stance at the last hit. I'm comfortable if I'm negative to the point where there's some threat of me stealing a turn if I go for a poke.

I didn't know the second hit was cancellable though. I'll have to look into that more.
 

gitblame

Noob
-5 does not mean nothing without a context.
And context is advancing forward mid to low, hit confirmable into solid damage. Also string can be continued and still be safe. -5 is pretty good to be honest.

It's hard for me to downplay Kitana. Each day I use her I think she plays this game really well. She is safe on basically everything. She can confirm from every touch. Of course she's not a monster like Geras or Erron Black, but for me she's more than viable and I have a lot of fun playing footsies with her.

I recommend to watch Semiij's display on yesterda's NLBC where he won a summit spot. He went full Kitana and beat Dragon, Kombat and Grr. A lot of solid tech to watch. Like D3 anti air conversions.
 

xKhaoTik

The Ignore Button Is Free
-5 does not mean nothing without a context.
And context is advancing forward mid to low, hit confirmable into solid damage. Also string can be continued and still be safe. -5 is pretty good to be honest.

It's hard for me to downplay Kitana. Each day I use her I think she plays this game really well. She is safe on basically everything. She can confirm from every touch. Of course she's not a monster like Geras or Erron Black, but for me she's more than viable and I have a lot of fun playing footsies with her.

I recommend to watch Semiij's display on yesterda's NLBC where he won a summit spot. He went full Kitana and beat Dragon, Kombat and Grr. A lot of solid tech to watch. Like D3 anti air conversions.
I think the people who swear she sucks are the ones who are trying to play her like the “old kitana”. You’re going to get blown up that way. She’s completely different this time around. I’m doing more than fine with her
 

Wazurau

FGC Since '97
Has anyone composed a list of moves that are safe on block yet? If not, I may have to explore that and start making a list of normals and beginning combos that are safe on block for Kitana and Kung Lao
 

MkPeezy

Unicorn Papi
Is anyone else annoyed that like half of Kitana's brutalities you have to be under like 40% life to do? Like I don't mind modifying my combos to end in a specific special move but why do I have to be basically dying to do them? Shit is hella annoying... not to add the fact I STILL after ridiculous amounts of coins haven’t got the maskless Kitana "skin"
 

xWildx

What a day. What a lovely day.
The game is fundamental enough that just about any character can do well, depending on who is controlling them. The issue with Kitana, is why choose her when so many other characters can do what she does and better.

If the current top tier was brought down a peg or two Kitana would be just fine, but that still doesn’t solve her incredibly linear playstyle. Most top players will adapt to her incredibly fast and counter.

I’d like to see her B2 made 15 frames, her ass amplifiable on block, and fan combos return. Leave the top alone, give lower characters a boost. However, I’m aware it’s still early. So we will see how it all plays out once the dust has settled.
 

Madog32

PSN: ImaGiveItToUBaby
Is anyone else annoyed that like half of Kitana's brutalities you have to be under like 40% life to do? Like I don't mind modifying my combos to end in a specific special move but why do I have to be basically dying to do them? Shit is hella annoying... not to add the fact I STILL after ridiculous amounts of coins haven’t got the maskless Kitana "skin"
Just in case you were grinding for a skin, know that the maskless look is gear. Would hate to be grinding for the wrong thing without knowing
 

6ixty9

Noob
I really like the look of her Sai variation but im having trouble finding high level gameplay and combos.

I realise the other variation is probably more competitive but i'd still like to learn both - just struggling to do it on my own. Wish some pros would pick it up, even for the lolz.

If anyone knows of any videos - hook me up :D
 

Rozalin1780

Good? Bad? I'm the one with the fans
Is anyone else annoyed that like half of Kitana's brutalities you have to be under like 40% life to do? Like I don't mind modifying my combos to end in a specific special move but why do I have to be basically dying to do them? Shit is hella annoying... not to add the fact I STILL after ridiculous amounts of coins haven’t got the maskless Kitana "skin"
Well, you could always Mercy for Kiss Of Death. :DOGE
 

gitblame

Noob
If I had a one complaing about Kitana, is that her B231 is punishable if you hit someone on his jump startup animation. And I don't think there is really a way to play around this.
 

DarksydeDash

You know me as RisingShieldBro online.
Kitana's forward throw brutal is SAVAGE.

She calls you "Pathetic" after like 80 stabs to the chest and slicing your throat.
 
Any tips for the Jacqui match up? I had a some great matches with a Jacqui main. Admittedly my defense is awful, but the match up itself did not feel great for Kitana.

Edit: I'm playing the fan-fare variation.
 

Tanya-Fan-28

TanyaShouldBeInMK11
I am trying to master this kombo, so far I have only pulled it off a few times but the strict timing of the dash between the fan lift and 32 drops the whole kombo easily. I can do every thing including the df2 its that blasted dash which throws me off
 

EMPRESS_SunFire

Regina George of discord
The downplay is real!

I think she is perfect honestly, she is safe on everything and can convert off any starter into meterless damage, if she spends a bar she gets slightly better damage and great oki options off MB square wave, not to mention she can always choose to use her quick execution krushing blow for great damage, only very few characters have easy krushing blow damage that they can use whenever they want like her and that is HUGE for comebacks.

Her defense is very good IMO, b2 and b1 are both godlike whiff punishers, d4 in the neutral is so good and her d2 IMO is great, idk why people say it's bad.
Her staggers are gonna be harder to pull off as time goes on obviously but that doesn't mean they are bad at all... Look at Catwoman in Injustice 2, she always was able to get damage off staggers mindgames, this is one of Kitanas biggest strenghts imo, just because it's not easy mode as picking up Sonya and going for a 50/50 into 40% doesn't mean it's bad. Her throw game is actually very good since she has a good mid in b1 that she can always mix up with her grabs.

Yeah, her zoning is pretty meh most of the times but she has a check at least and fans are meant to be used in the neutral to force people to jump or try dangerous stuff, one good thing her fans have is that their hitbox is actually pretty good as always.

Basically I think she plays MK11 very well, she is pretty honest IMO but she is very good at making her oponents make mistakes... Except Sonya who can just outzone her and mix her up to death when they're up-close lol... Yeah, Sonya makes me so salty!


EDIT: Oh! Also... When the flawless block meta evolves more and more she is gonna play it very well thanks to her krushing blows off b231U2 and b142, also she will be able to use the flawless block on the last hit of b231u4 to her advantage by using the kick ender to mess with people's timing

AND she has some of the easiest krushing blow requirements, which is huge as I have said before.
 

Rozalin1780

Good? Bad? I'm the one with the fans
I am pretty much never able to get the square wave KB in a real match which is a shame because the visual is hilarious
You can get it easily versus Scorpion. All you have to do is block a spear at maximum square wave distance and perform a square wave reversal punish. Same could be said of Frost’s Fatal Blow, but it’s a bit more tricky since the Fatal Blow has to push you back to the correct distance then you perform a reversal square wave punish.
 

MK-Gray

Do you even (fan) lift?
The downplay is real!
I agree! Great points by the way.

I agree pretty much entirely with all points you bring up and have been having moderate success with her. She has number of good normals that allow her good whiff punishing and easy hit-confirms, on top of being pretty safe. Her damage is also largely meterless outside of MB Square Wave for same-side OKI which is a great plus.

I do however think it is worth having a discussion about areas Kitana is currently lacking without having to re-tread things we all know such as “no Sonya mix-ups” or “she can’t zone like Erron” etc.

For one – while the combination of a good set of jumping normals, Air Fan Toss, and the somewhat unique Fan Flutter give her a pretty compelling air game compared to much of the roster; it currently does not feel strong enough to really define her as a character. Even with those extra options many characters feel comfortable taking to the air against her. Given that she lacks a great zoning, mix-up, or pressure game this seems like a bit of a missed opportunity.

Speaking of missed opportunities - it is a shame that Kitana has the millstone round her neck of having what may as well be a single tournament variation. Half Blood Stance brings almost nothing to the table that rounds out her kit on top of some really baffling design choices such as the stab KB being tied to the awful sai projectile and the fact that teleport kick seems almost un-usable thanks to its delayed start-up and non-existent follow-up options with or without MB. The saving grace of the second variant could have been Edenian Razors which allows for some great meterless combo damage in the corner – but comes at the expense of Fan Lift which neuters Kitana’s already somewhat middling damage anywhere outside of the corner given she lacks a traditional pop-up string for extending combos without it.

There is also the somewhat double-edged sword of that meterless damage. While on the one hand this means we can play relatively conservatively with offensive meter, it also happens to highlight the fact that she lacks any particularly compelling MB options. Aside from the moderate utility of MB Fan Toss and the slightly extra damage from ending a combo with MB Square Wave there really is not anything for us to spend meter on special-wise which feels like a bit of a let-down, especially when transitioning from characters that meter-burn to get extra damage / corner carry in BnBs.

All-in-all to me Kitana feels somewhat hampered by the load-out system. Too much of Kitana’s power-budget is locked away to either custom load-outs or in lose-lose scenarios like the aforementioned trading Fan Lift for Edenian Razors. Small loadout tweaks like the Fan Toss Variants, Retreating and Advancing Fan Flutter, Royal Protection, Ground War etc. being built into her base kit rather than locked behind allocation would round-out her game a lot more. It all comes back to that slightly sour taste of realizing that there are characters who are “komplete” without their variants and just get extra power from them.

All of this doesn’t change the fact that I think Kitana is in an alright place though and again – I have been having moderate success with her. MK11 is at its core fundamental enough that Kitana’s quality strings and easy hit-confirms / whiff punishing has a lot of mileage in the current state of the game, I just wonder if it is going to continue to hold up as people get a better handle on the characters with 50/50s, 40% single-meter damage etc.

I’d love to hear your guys thoughts and if I’ve got anything completely off the ball / missed the mark completely compared to your experiences.
 

DavesHotnJuicy

jmack_215
I hate watching gameplay videos and I can see Liu Kang have enough time to convert off his flying kick after catching someone with a fireball midair. Has anyone found anything after an air fan?
 

armani

Noob
I hate watching gameplay videos and I can see Liu Kang have enough time to convert off his flying kick after catching someone with a fireball midair. Has anyone found anything after an air fan?
to be honest, using air fan in midscreen combo situations requires precise timing i.e

starter db2 dash b34 df1 dash 1 df2
starter db2 dash b34 df1 dash d4 bf3

so it’s possible but you need to be on point allll the time lol. I just wish that up fan was a part of her kit. just for combo purposes though. she does gain more of a classic kitana air control attribute, but it makes for better (and more interesting) combos.

I’ll probably post a video soon of what I’m talking about.
 

MK-Gray

Do you even (fan) lift?
starter db2 dash b34 df1 dash 1 df2
starter db2 dash b34 df1 dash d4 bf3
I knew I had been timing something wrong. I had hit the combo a few times but could not reproduce it and was beginning to think I had imagined the whole thing – you are most definitely right about having to be on point.

I just wish that up fan was a part of her kit. just for combo purposes though. she does gain more of a classic kitana air control attribute, but it makes for better (and more interesting) combos.
I agree completely. I think she could use a few “freebies” in her kit as I fail to see how having access to things like Square Wave while grounded, or her up Fan Toss are game-changers in terms of loadouts. I mentioned it in my post earlier that it feels like Kitana has too much of her defining power budget shoved into equip slots and just leaves her feeling lacking somewhat.
 

DarksydeDash

You know me as RisingShieldBro online.
After playing against Pig's Sub and Jax, I've come to the conclusion that:

1. Advancing special moves shut down her zoning completely since the Sai can't track them.

2. 6 frame D1s make counter poking hard.

3. Performing a Meaty after df2 is strict with timing and they can jump out for free if you don't have perfect timing.

Also, huge note is that due to Kitana's wakeup and flawless block moving her backward, You CAN NOT U2 punish Sub's F4 after a flawless block and Jax can charge his B2 all the way to trigger the Krushing blow and whiff punish her if she wakes up.

That being said, Fan-Fare does very well against these two I feel because your punishes hurt a lot more.
 

6ixty9

Noob
After playing against Pig's Sub and Jax, I've come to the conclusion that:

1. Advancing special moves shut down her zoning completely since the Sai can't track them.

2. 6 frame D1s make counter poking hard.

3. Performing a Meaty after df2 is strict with timing and they can jump out for free if you don't have perfect timing.

Also, huge note is that due to Kitana's wakeup and flawless block moving her backward, You CAN NOT U2 punish Sub's F4 after a flawless block and Jax can charge his B2 all the way to trigger the Krushing blow and whiff punish her if she wakes up.

That being said, Fan-Fare does very well against these two I feel because your punishes hurt a lot more.
I would really like to get into the Sai variation but find the combos outside of the corner very lacking... do you play it as more of a zoning variation?

Do you have any footage from the sets you were talking about?