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Match-up Discussion KILLER FROST - Official Community Match-Up Discussion

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
Well Mr. Rude I would like to know if you would be able to make the trait go overhead with your own intention....
I would like to know if you are able to get it to go even higher...
I would also like to know if you can answer me while in close proximity or 'come here' as it were...

So essentially what I'm saying is..
That's tight.
 

RiBBz22

TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler
It's very frustrating. I should probably just hold onto bats for Slide punishes. It feels like the usual release bats = safe cross-up strategy isn't as successful here.
I think you just need to play Batman's game against KF. I wouldn't hold onto your bats on purpose just for slide to be honest because you give up too many free opportunities for other punishes and pressure.
 

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
I think you just need to play Batman's game against KF. I wouldn't hold onto your bats on purpose just for slide to be honest because you give up too many free opportunities for other punishes and pressure.
Using bats for cross-up attempts doesn't seem to work as well here, though. Partially due to her hitbox. It seems to be lower than other characters, causing cross-ups to whiff. This could, of course, be an error on my part. You can't simply, "play Batman's game" against Frost when she can punish any forward dash attempt with slide. Her zoning can lock you into place or at least make moving difficult, as a blocked ice dagger ensures that iceburg will hit if you dash in. Even if you do navigate that zoning(which in and of itself isn't too bad), again, Frost can slide when you dash in and launch you before your dash completes.

This probably has something to do with how long Batman's dash is.
 

ApocaLips

Kombatant
She can't punish dashes, she has to make a read. Bait and punish with jump back 2.

My understanding is that trait bats whiff vs. a lot of the cast at point blank. It's a non issue for setting up crossups, as the crossup forces a stand to block it. The bats are to stuff anti-airs and the like. It works fine.

Don't block daggers. Duck them.

The whole point of KF's zoning is to force enemies into slide/airdash range at disadvantage to launch an offense. That's not particular to Batman. But considering his j2 beats a lot of what KF can do from that range, it's not so bad for him.

Get comfortable avoiding zoning to midscreen, then hanging out with j2s until you bait something. KF will then have to respond with daggers, which are punishable at that range.
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
She can't punish dashes, she has to make a read. Bait and punish with jump back 2.

My understanding is that trait bats whiff vs. a lot of the cast at point blank. It's a non issue for setting up crossups, as the crossup forces a stand to block it. The bats are to stuff anti-airs and the like. It works fine.

Don't block daggers. Duck them.

The whole point of KF's zoning is to force enemies into slide/airdash range at disadvantage to launch an offense. That's not particular to Batman. But considering his j2 beats a lot of what KF can do from that range, it's not so bad for him.

Get comfortable avoiding zoning to midscreen, then hanging out with j2s until you bait something. KF will then have to respond with daggers, which are punishable at that range.
why would you use air dash as offense unless as a mixup in their face?
 

ApocaLips

Kombatant
why would you use air dash as offense unless as a mixup in their face?
KF's airdash is too slow and goes too far for the WW/Superman style close pressure.

If they're at a range where airdash will just barely cross up, it's ambiguous and hard to AA, especially if you start the airdash as they're recovering from something else - a jump, a dash etc.

J3 has great blockstun and leads into d1 frametraps and mixups.
 

Rickyraws

This mean you don't like me?
If this matchup chart is true that Killer Frost is possible top 3 material
True, however most top players have her in their top 5, and their top 5s are typically out of order, so it's possible. She handles AM well and for those that she doesn't necessarily beat, she has her tools and can play her game for the most part, so if the player is solid, she would be an excellent top 3 choice to compete with any other character in top 3.

I think some players are just better at playing certain MUs than others. This also has to be taken into account when figuring out lists IMO because a MMH can be so good at playing against DDs because he plays DD himself, or has a sparring partner that was so legit that it honed the MMH's reads and knowledge of the MU so much that the MMH imposes his will at the start of the match and never lets the opponent get started. However (at least the last time I checked) DD is still not a favorable MU for MMH, just that the player tends to excel.
 

ForeverKing

Patreon.com/MK_ForeverKing
What MU's do you think seem way off? We need to play offline sometime I want get games in with you and your brother.
I don't really see any matches that are off. I agree with Batman Raven Grundy Black Adam and Wonder Woman.

I was just saying this matchup chart looks like the matchup chart of a top 3 character lol
 

Rickyraws

This mean you don't like me?
I don't really see any matches that are off. I agree with Batman Raven Grundy Black Adam and Wonder Woman.

I was just saying this matchup chart looks like the matchup chart of a top 3 character lol
King. Do the right thing and start using Killer Frost. You know you want to ;)
 

ForeverKing

Patreon.com/MK_ForeverKing
True, however most top players have her in their top 5, and their top 5s are typically out of order, so it's possible. She handles AM well and for those that she doesn't necessarily beat, she has her tools and can play her game for the most part, so if the player is solid, she would be an excellent top 3 choice to compete with any other character in top 3.

I think some players are just better at playing certain MUs than others. This also has to be taken into account when figuring out lists IMO because a MMH can be so good at playing against DDs because he plays DD himself, or has a sparring partner that was so legit that it honed the MMH's reads and knowledge of the MU so much that the MMH imposes his will at the start of the match and never lets the opponent get started. However (at least the last time I checked) DD is still not a favorable MU for MMH, just that the player tends to excel.
Kind of like how Forever King Jr would probably never lose to any other Batman player, even if he is playing a matchup that is not in his favor
 

RiBBz22

TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler
xKhaoTik

How are you on the Zod matchup lately?
I played m2dave for about an hour in offline casuals last night. Last time we played I went mostly Batgirl but this time I played Frost. I thought I did pretty decently for my first time really playing the character with Frost. On a blocked slide more often than not the Zod push was the move being used since it is safe, can't be parried, jumped, or back-dashed. You either block it or you can 111/d1 punish on read. I was successful on read punishing with 111 slide. You only have a few frames so what I like to do is just mash out 111 slide and sometimes I only get 11 slide to come out, but whatever it is still a good punish...

Trait is obviously a pain in the ass to deal with, but I think the more you face it the less intimidating it becomes. I still need more matches to level up with blocking it better. Most of the time I just block low and react to or anticipate the bite move based on the amount of time remaining on the trait. I think keeping a mental clock of when trait will go away is pretty important. Sometimes I would mix in ways to try to catch him off guard/get in and get a quick launcher, but I did that pretty seldomly with some mixed success...I would have to start mixing up ways to get in between walking forward and blocking, air-dashing, dashing, or just jumping because he would start to punish my instant air dashes with his low laser which I actually thought was pretty cool. Like I said though, most of the time I waited it out and tried to punish the bite with iceberg.
 

RiBBz22

TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler
I came out ahead in my sets against him, but it would help to start with your hangups.
lmfao, great stock advice. Anyways, how were you approaching the MU? I didn't feel like the zoning was very bad to get through and he was only really annoying when trait was out. I don't really feel like Zod has awesome ways to start his offense that doesn't take some work.
 

RiBBz22

TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler
Guys, anything new that anyone has found that should make it into the character MU sections?? Let me know.