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Breakthrough - Kenshi Kenshi Changes apparently 2-1-16 *post any I miss*

stamatis

Όσα δε φτάνει η αλεπού. ........
Kenshi changes: db2 reflect 3f faster (reflect has Parry properties

b1 13 frames now and recovery improved

new string f21 f214

possessed tele now can come down w JIp to jail into pressure

22 can be meter burned for combo continuance or reset for a bar

d1 7f

possessed specials higher dmG

No changes to bf3, bf2, hit adv on df4 w possessed or db4 oh slash balanced

Ex df1 doesn't recapture

No gravity adjustments

No new normals

Balanced not improved much at all, his worst variation confirmed

Kenjutsu combos fixed w b1 buff

Discuss

I'm not interested in sharing my true thoughts on these changes right now
I believe he deserved more,like a 6frame poke.....damn I feel like his place is empty at the character select screen.
 

ismael4790

Stay focused or get Caged
I believe he deserved more,like a 6frame poke.....damn I feel like his place is empty at the character select screen.
I also expected different things, but I admit I see a lot of potential in his new parry. It will improve a lot his defensive game.
It's not a parry like the one Liu has, this one can parry multiple hits if well timed and grants full combo xD
It will require labbing, but this can be huge for him.

However, I would also like to see some love for the rest of his specials in march.
 

coconutshrimp

Damn vro, hadda mess with yo auntie
With the parry I want to know something. Say your playing Mileena and reflect the sais coming at you and she teleports. Can you parry that teleport after just reflecting a sai?


Also unrelated, The parry punishes the gap in Cassie's B12 (4). Just thought that was worth mentioning.
 

ismael4790

Stay focused or get Caged
With the parry I want to know something. Say your playing Mileena and reflect the sais coming at you and she teleports. Can you parry that teleport after just reflecting a sai?


Also unrelated, The parry punishes the gap in Cassie's B12 (4). Just thought that was worth mentioning.
I have not tested the parry deeply, but it seems you can parry anything that has no armor if you time it well, because it can be immediately canceled. Also I think you can't parry lows unless they are a projectile.

But my big doubt is this one: Imagine, for example, that you are trying to parry Tanya's rekka sequence. If she sees you are parrying more than 2 hits...why would she continue with the full sequence, if the end is eating a rising karma? Why not stop and bait your next parry, then full punish you? Or just introducing an armor move between the sequence of parries...

Things like this need labbing to see the true possibilities we will have.
 
With the parry I want to know something. Say your playing Mileena and reflect the sais coming at you and she teleports. Can you parry that teleport after just reflecting a sai?


Also unrelated, The parry punishes the gap in Cassie's B12 (4). Just thought that was worth mentioning.
The parry punish is awesome! It gives Kenshi a way to meterlessly punish at least some string gaps, assuming the opponent continues the string.
 

ismael4790

Stay focused or get Caged
The parry punish is awesome! It gives Kenshi a way to meterlessly punish at least some string gaps, assuming the opponent continues the string.
Exactly, I think this will be the main use, punishing gaps. But punishing full strings seems problematic as I said before.
 
So.. Kenshi can basically knock you down and force you back to full screen. From there, you cannot get close to him or even close distance because anything he throws out is safe and it just pushes you back more.

I keep hearing kenshi is bad. I keep hearing he's not MK9 kenshi. What am I missing? can someone explain to me why he's bad? because I don't buy it at all.
 

SneakyTortoise

Official Master of Salt
So.. Kenshi can basically knock you down and force you back to full screen. From there, you cannot get close to him or even close distance because anything he throws out is safe and it just pushes you back more.

I keep hearing kenshi is bad. I keep hearing he's not MK9 kenshi. What am I missing? can someone explain to me why he's bad? because I don't buy it at all.
What moves make it impossible for you to get close?
 

MrProfDrPepper

NRS, Guilty Gear, and KI, the holy trinity
So.. Kenshi can basically knock you down and force you back to full screen. From there, you cannot get close to him or even close distance because anything he throws out is safe and it just pushes you back more.

I keep hearing kenshi is bad. I keep hearing he's not MK9 kenshi. What am I missing? can someone explain to me why he's bad? because I don't buy it at all.
There is so many things wrong with that first paragraph I don't even know where to begin...
 

ismael4790

Stay focused or get Caged
So.. Kenshi can basically knock you down and force you back to full screen. From there, you cannot get close to him or even close distance because anything he throws out is safe and it just pushes you back more.

I keep hearing kenshi is bad. I keep hearing he's not MK9 kenshi. What am I missing? can someone explain to me why he's bad? because I don't buy it at all.
This word is funny.
 
So rather than tell me what I'm not understanding, just be a dick head. Shouldn't have expected more.

Is there something about that ranged overhead that's unsafe? whatever that push move is or the teleflurry? What makes any of those moves unsafe? Do they have like way more recovery than I'm giving them credit for or something?
 

MrProfDrPepper

NRS, Guilty Gear, and KI, the holy trinity
pick a move?

I'm literally trying to figure out what it is that actually makes him bad.
Telefury, neutral duck. He is 43 frames on whiff, you can punish him from fill screen, telepush, either armor through it, jump over it, or be patient and walk in a little until you are past the maximum range on it and then punish since it is only safe at Max range, teleslash, this is reactable and even if it hits you kenshi is negative, rising karma, this is punishable as fuck.
 

Immortal

Blind justice....
So.. Kenshi can basically knock you down and force you back to full screen. From there, you cannot get close to him or even close distance because anything he throws out is safe and it just pushes you back more.

I keep hearing kenshi is bad. I keep hearing he's not MK9 kenshi. What am I missing? can someone explain to me why he's bad? because I don't buy it at all.
People are bashing you not because you lack knowledge but because you're straight up lazy and can't take like 2 minutes (probably less then writing all those responses above) to search throu few Kenshi topics which already exist or simply use forum search function.

It's been said so many times.

All of his specials (excluding ex SC) are either totally unsafe or semi unsafe. And to top it of all are a complete and utter destruction on whiff. To give you an example, TF which in Balanced is -43 on whiff allows you easily to just run up from 4/5 of screen and full combo punish.

Next time don't be lazy or at least be polite when you ask.
 
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thanks, was that hard?

get over yourself. Stop pretending you've never asked a question before. Asking something doesn't make someone lazy.

I'm sorry if when I said "can someone explain to me why he's bad? I don't buy it." that wasn't polite enough for you. Callign me lazy twice though, super constrctive. good job.
 

MrProfDrPepper

NRS, Guilty Gear, and KI, the holy trinity
thanks, was that hard?

get over yourself. Stop pretending you've never asked a question before. Asking something doesn't make someone lazy.
It gets annoying when you have to answer the same question hundreds of times when the knowledge is easy to find, pretty much any topic where kenshi is discussed there is also posted on that same thread how to best him with ease. I understand you have questions but it gets annoying for us too, especially when we have to constantly remind ourselves that our favorite character is absolute dogshit in this game when we were so excited for him, and reminding ourselves why we had to drop him no matter how hard it was for us to let go of such a badass character.
 

John Grizzly

The axe that clears the forest
thanks, was that hard?

get over yourself. Stop pretending you've never asked a question before. Asking something doesn't make someone lazy.

I'm sorry if when I said "can someone explain to me why he's bad? I don't buy it." that wasn't polite enough for you. Callign me lazy twice though, super constrctive. good job.
The problem isn't that you asked a question, it's that you just started talking about how safe Kenshi is when he isn't at all. If you had simply said "I'm unsure why Kenshi isn't considered good. Anyone care to explain?" you'd have had a much more positive reaction. People are generally pretty helpful around here.
 
It gets annoying when you have to answer the same question hundreds of times when the knowledge is easy to find, pretty much any topic where kenshi is discussed there is also posted on that same thread how to best him with ease. I understand you have questions but it gets annoying for us too, especially when we have to constantly remind ourselves that our favorite character is absolute dogshit in this game when we were so excited for him, and reminding ourselves why we had to drop him no matter how hard it was for us to let go of such a badass character.
Understandable. But the threads aren't that well organized. Coming in to this forum for the first time and trying to find frame info for certain special moves isn't the easiest thing to do. There are THREE different kenjutsu guide threads, and other kunjutsu variation discussion thread. One of them is like 2 pages of people posting pictures of beards.

You guys might know where to look to find that information, but it's not as easy to find as you think.
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
So rather than tell me what I'm not understanding, just be a dick head. Shouldn't have expected more.
Since you legitimately made me laugh I'll answer too. It's just awkward to hear people complain about dealing with Kenshi in 2016, especially "Balanced" Kenshi. Your best options are these against the zoning.


Telefurry- it's like -9000 on whiff so you can punish it easily. Teleport characters like Ermac, Scorpion, etc can full combo punish from full screen into vortexes. Characters with fast runs like my girl D'Vorah can run in from 3/4 of the screen away and full combo punish. Zoning characters can get free projectiles. Etc. Neutral duck and eat popcorn while punishing.

OH Slash. Once you're far away waiting to neutral duck Telefurry for free 40% combos on him, they'll use OH Slash. The move looks completely different and is slow so you can react and Run under it to blow Kenshi up from full screen. Even if you land a hit on block, most characters normals and pressure is difficult for Kenshi. Run under it on reaction when getting zoned from full screen.

Soul Push- hits mid so you have to block it. If your close enough to be hit or block this, you most likely have better options with your character than he does. Some characters can easily punish, some it's harder but you'll get pressure. But if it hits you it'll push you full screen. EX is safe, but regular version is yours on block.

Rising Karma- close range tool so it's not what's giving you issues, but also unsafe like everything else.


For a zoning character with a variation specifically designed to zone, it's kinda ironic how bad they made the variation. Almost as if for as safe as he was in MK9, he's just as "unsafe" in MKX lol. Imo it seems almost intentional that Balanced was made bad. For example: Predator, QC, Kitana, etc have much more dominant success zoning for long durations of a match, for higher damage off of their zoning tools, and are also much safer while having better normals. Very, very questionable design decision which is why you got the "wow really?" types of responses.


Check out your main characters tools that help him/her exploit these gaping holes in Balanced. Lab it. Then with repitition it'll be easy. When I use my main the only time I lose to Kenshi is if I was significantly outplayed, where as other characters you have to hold their bs half of the time wondering if they really outplayed you or abused tools. Just be patient, wait for the right opportunity, and eat breakfast.
 
Thanks. I eventually did find what makes teleflurry so terrible, but it wasn't nearly as readily available as people are pretending.

I had no idea I could just neutral duck it. Nor did I know I could take a nap and then wake up and go punish him after he whiffed it.

Seems to be a case of "as good as he was in mk9, that's how not as good as he was in mkx."

lolol