Question - Kano KANO needs some buffs?

[kabelfritz]

Well it's not really the game as more of the characters as examples. Juice used an even better example with Grundy. I remember Tyrant himself making a thread about how he was either gonna quit the game or switch to Superman because Grundy was mid tier at best, but possibly worse, and instead of the community trusting his word or at least trying to figure out if/why he's wrong most people blasted it. The majority of TYM filled the thread with "Grundy is a great character/Tyrant is washed up and should change his playstyle/Buff Grundy would make him S Tier/etc". Meanwhile after a little time passed everyone was like, "oops, damn maybe Grundy could have used something during all those patches he missed out on because he kinda sucks".

that is the reason why nrs shouldnt touch anything right now except its broken.

 

[DFC]

that is the reason why nrs shouldnt touch anything right now except its broken.

you're not wrong. but it's their MO to do so

 

[kabelfritz]

you're not wrong. but it's their MO to do so

Whats an MO?

 

[DFC]

Whats an MO?

Modus Operandi. Basically Latin for how they do things.

 

[roosTakk]

I sincerely hope English is not your first language.

 

[roosTakk]

Well it's not really the game as more of the characters as examples. Juice used an even better example with Grundy. I remember Tyrant himself making a thread about how he was either gonna quit the game or switch to Superman because Grundy was mid tier at best, but possibly worse, and instead of the community trusting his word or at least trying to figure out if/why he's wrong most people blasted it. The majority of TYM filled the thread with "Grundy is a great character/Tyrant is washed up and should change his playstyle/Buff Grundy would make him S Tier/etc". Meanwhile after a little time passed everyone was like, "oops, damn maybe Grundy could have used something during all those patches he missed out on because he kinda sucks".

That's the only thing I don't want to see happen to Kano. Something @General M2Dave has been saying for a while is very similar to Tyrant back then, that he's a mid tier character with solid tools, but the meta of MKX limits Kano's upside. Almost the same argument Tyrant made. I argued against it saying Kano was Top 10 for a while until I started playing some of the guys who are close to, or even thetop reps of their characters and saw the difference. Dave is 100% right about this part. Where I think the heat comes from is someone saying buff a mid tier character, which I can understand, but what others have to realize is that if he was a 50/50 mixup character he needs nothing. That type of mid tier can always strive in the environment of MKX. Like Cutthroat, it honestly needs nothing at all except fixes (or I consider them fixes at least), not buffs. Cyber, deemed as variation #1 currently will need something though. If he was a Quan Chi level character it'd be easier to say, "hey he's great, he needs nothing", and it's likely true. Like who needed to ever buff Aquaman? But Kano isn't of that caliber. He'll need something when the buffs start rolling out patch after patch or he'll get left behind in the long run.

Vs the Top 10, I think he has half even MU's and half losing MU's, with 2 of those MU's being a death sentence. Almost our entire split in half community agrees on that part. That MU outlook is not the recipe for future success without some sort of improvements. As far as what he does need, I think it's a list of a few things. He doesn't need them all, but he does need some. The only things he undoubtedly does need is a choke he can actually use in Commando, a better hitbox for Cutt B1, fix to EX Buff, Kano Ball Specials priority, and some adjustments to normals in Cyber so he can excel at the defensive design he's supposed to excel at. Those things he actually needs to stay alive, while other things he'll need to be at least at the low end of a Top 10.

Again, I think he's a solid mid tier character, but in comparison to the TG Raiden, Hellfire Scorpion, and Swarm Queen D'Vorah's of the world, it just isn't enough for him to keep his position without buffs after multiple patches.

I think you need to find a more constructive way to spend your time

 

[Eddy Wang]

TYM nowadays just never cease to amaze me. Im just watching those threads to pop up one after another and im like this:

Remember MK9?

 

[RexyWrecks]

FOH..

 

[SaltShaker]

that is the reason why nrs shouldnt touch anything right now except its broken.

Yea I actually agree with that line of thinking. Only thing is that we already know how NRS will handle the game, which is why we'll need it. Hell I wish they did something like that. Spaced out the patching over a long period of time instead of short burst. That would be my #1 preference if it was actually possible lol.

I think you need to find a more constructive way to spend your time

As a few members from TYM who actually know me in person will tell you, I am an accountant in nyc working for PriceWaterHouse Coopers, one of the top 2 accounting firms in the world. I'm able to live an incredible fast paced lifestyle due to the over inflated paychecks they send me every two weeks.

But don't worry bro, next time I post I'll remember that same random online nobody named "roosTakk" thinks I should better utilize my time.

 

[Thierry Henry]

Why do we live in a society that instead of trying to better ourselves, we want someone else giving us freebies to improve?

 

[Hini]

I sincerely hope English is not your first language.

Exceptionally constructive post.

GTFO with that shit.

 

[MsMiharo]

We're better than this Kano community!!!

In all seriousness though, Kano needs some tweaks but not really big changes. He needs some changes in commando to make it on par with the other variations. B1 hitbox in cutthroat could use a tweak. but we have no real reason to cry

 

[FlappyDaniel]

To everybody poppin in this thread without reading it and posting a "WOW I CAN'T BELIEVE ALL KANOS ARE WHINING", we're not. This guy is. Git gud and learn to read.

 

[Scott The Scot]

ccountant in nyc working for PriceWaterHouse Coopers, one of the top 2 accounting firms in the world. I'm able to live an incredible fast paced lifestyle due to the over inflated paychecks they send me every two weeks.

But don't worry bro, next time I post I'll remember that same random online nobody named "roosTakk" thinks I should better utilize my time.

Check. Fucking. Mate.

Rekt son!

 

[OG Mannimal]

GTFO.

You have no clue. That is all.

I mean obviously Kano is infinitely better than Kenshi before the buffs but crying for buffs is still crying for buffs

 

[shaowebb]

Prepare yourself @I GOT HANDS . For your quote now goes upon my wall of glory where it will forever smile upon me allowing me to believe for one small instant that their is hope within the FGC.

God everyone just wants to rewrite the game instead of play the one given to us. Stop this shits ridiculous

"Praise be...their is hope! " ლ(ٱ٥ٱლ)

 

[GAV]

 

[NorCalSamurai]

(Reads thread title)

"Lemme guess, give him an overhead?"

(Reads thread)

"Oh, TYM."

 

[MORDECA1]

I do think that Cutthroat's B1 needs a bigger hitbox. I also would like to see a minor improvement made to the Power Charge in some way.

 

[Farpafraf]

I honestly find the range of his B1 in his cut throat variation unnerving and I'm not even a Kano mainer and since for Kenshi worked (even tho Kenshi was a joke before the patch) I think it's natural that many people are trying to get their main buffed.
If I were to apport some (in my opinion reasonable) changes those would be

Nerfs:
B12 can no longer combo into EX DD3;
B121 now does 10% instead of 12%;
112 is now -3 from -1.


Buffs:
B1 range is slightly increased (it now connects 1 step from the closest distance);
11 is now neutral on block from -2;
2F4 is now +2 on block from +0;
DD3 now consumes 8% health instead of 10%.

 

[Hitoshura]

f4 in 2f4 could become an overhead. That wold help cybernetic a bit. Hard knockdown leading into a way to get out of a bad situation and go back to zoning. Plus the 2 hits high, so if they see you mix up coming they can duck it and then punish you for it.

Nerfs:
B12 can no longer combo into EX DD3

No. It's a 2-3 frame link, or at least it feels like it. Plus, cut throat doesn't get meter as easily as cybernetic does, so one has to be careful how they spend meter in that variation.

 

[Youphemism]

Vs the Top 10, I think he has half even MU's and half losing MU's, with 2 of those MU's being a death sentence. Almost our entire split in half community agrees on that part.

Explain.

 

[SaltShaker]

Explain.

I think you, Coach Steve, and OgManimal might be the only ones left who disagree with Kano's fairing vs the top 10 lol.

So you have Raiden, Quan Chi, Scorpion, D'Vorah, Sonya, Erron Black, Cassie, Jax, Kung Jin, and Sub-Zero. This is pretty much the Top 10 agreed upon within the scene, just the order is debated at times. Now considering competitive variations only we have this.

Kano dominant MU's- none.

Kano adv. MU's- Hollywood Cassie. 1 total variation.

Kano even MU's, but possibly can be advantage- Bojutsu Kung Jin, Covert Ops Sonya, 2 total variations.

Kano even MU's- Summoner Quan Chi, D'Vorah Venomous, Jax. 5 variations counting 3 of Jax.

Kano even MU's, put possibly can be disadvantage- Swarm Queen D'Vorah, Special Forces Sonya, Grand Master Sub-Zero, Thunder God Raiden, 4 total variations.

Kano bad MU's- Inferno Scorpion, Spec Ops Cassie, 2 total variations.

Kano death MU's- Hellfire Scorpion, Outlaw Erron Black (since post patch effects other MU's much more than this one). 2 total variations.

So we're looking at something close to no dominant MU's, 1 clear adv, 2 possible adv, 5 even (3 from one character), 4 possibly bad, 2 bad, and 2 really bad vs variations of the Top 10. As a whole, I'm sure everyone doesn't agree on all of it since we're all different people, but that seems to be the general standing at this point.

If other characters start getting buffed up and Kano gets nothing he'll just gradually slide down the ladder while others catch up, and eventually end up the Grundy of the game. It's why I think he'll need some additions as time goes. Nothing too crazy, but a few little things to keep him in the competitive scene.

 

[ando1184]

I honestly find the range of his B1 in his cut throat variation unnerving and I'm not even a Kano mainer and since for Kenshi worked (even tho Kenshi was a joke before the patch) I think it's natural that many people are trying to get their main buffed.
If I were to apport some (in my opinion reasonable) changes those would be

Nerfs:
B12 can no longer combo into EX DD3;
B121 now does 10% instead of 12%;
112 is now -3 from -1.


Buffs:
B1 range is slightly increased (it now connects 1 step from the closest distance);
11 is now neutral on block from -2;
2F4 is now +2 on block from +0;
DD3 now consumes 8% health instead of 10%.

B12 comboing into MB buff isn't that bad at all, it's execution heavy as hell and only nets around 34% if you stuck to the one bar. That's nothing out of proportion imo.

B121 damage is fine, that string as a combo starter is one of his weakest combos.

112 doesn't need to be more - anything, it already has a big gap in between the last hit and is supposed to be a high mid mid string. But it whiffs against small hitboxes all the time, scorpion can crouch block and this string goes completely over him.

B1 I'm assuming you're referring to cutthroat, and yes that needs a bigger hitbox because it even whiffs in the corner sometime and whiffs midscreen a whole lot.

Buff (dd3), actually takes around 13% life from Kano not 10%. So yeh, I'd like to see that not hurt so much.

For the most part, yes Kano is an overall viable character, but as the patches come and Kano goes untouched or nerfed more it's really gonna hurt his game. This is a character with good neutral game in a game where the neutral is only effective until a 50/50 lands you in the corner for an effortless guessing game. Kano can't build meter at the push of a button or by hitting your blocking opponent with multi-fast hitting attacks so he's a little weak in the meter building department. Hell, Kung Lao can gain half a bar by landing b321 MB hat spin in tempest and continue pressure and still build meter. Kano has MB ball but if that's blocked he's punished for a full combo, he's got nothing that will give him a competitive edge in the meter building department. His damage output in cyber and commando is only average. I'm talking bout 35% 1 bar midscreen stuff, that's nothing to cry home about or complain about. However, he does have to work a little harder than the average character to get that damage. Commando has choke and I hear people mentioning it could use a little more love and there's nothing wrong with that. Jax can do any poke into gotcha grab and continue for pressure and mixups and never get punished for it so I don't see an issue in making choke a little better in the frame department. Commandos MB command throws tend to whiff vs characters doing strings. At first I though maybe it was against strings that might put them airbourne but then it happened against liu kangs f44 string and he was grounded the whole time. So I think the hitbox should track better or something so it doesn't flat out whiff when they're in your face. None of these are unreasonable and are more like fixes than buffs but like others in the Kano community have said, if everyone around Kano is constantly getting tweaked and he goes untouched we might have another Grundy on our hands. At the moment Kano is viable and I just hope in the future and as this game evolves and grows, he stays viable.

 

[dribirut]

Well it's not really the game as more of the characters as examples. Juice used an even better example with Grundy. I remember Tyrant himself making a thread about how he was either gonna quit the game or switch to Superman because Grundy was mid tier at best, but possibly worse, and instead of the community trusting his word or at least trying to figure out if/why he's wrong most people blasted it. The majority of TYM filled the thread with "Grundy is a great character/Tyrant is washed up and should change his playstyle/Buff Grundy would make him S Tier/etc". Meanwhile after a little time passed everyone was like, "oops, damn maybe Grundy could have used something during all those patches he missed out on because he kinda sucks".

That's the only thing I don't want to see happen to Kano. Something @General M2Dave has been saying for a while is very similar to Tyrant back then, that he's a mid tier character with solid tools, but the meta of MKX limits Kano's upside. Almost the same argument Tyrant made. I argued against it saying Kano was Top 10 for a while until I started playing some of the guys who are close to, or even thetop reps of their characters and saw the difference. Dave is 100% right about this part. Where I think the heat comes from is someone saying buff a mid tier character, which I can understand, but what others have to realize is that if he was a 50/50 mixup character he needs nothing. That type of mid tier can always strive in the environment of MKX. Like Cutthroat, it honestly needs nothing at all except fixes (or I consider them fixes at least), not buffs. Cyber, deemed as variation #1 currently will need something though. If he was a Quan Chi level character it'd be easier to say, "hey he's great, he needs nothing", and it's likely true. Like who needed to ever buff Aquaman? But Kano isn't of that caliber. He'll need something when the buffs start rolling out patch after patch or he'll get left behind in the long run.

Vs the Top 10, I think he has half even MU's and half losing MU's, with 2 of those MU's being a death sentence. Almost our entire split in half community agrees on that part. That MU outlook is not the recipe for future success without some sort of improvements. As far as what he does need, I think it's a list of a few things. He doesn't need them all, but he does need some. The only things he undoubtedly does need is a choke he can actually use in Commando, a better hitbox for Cutt B1, fix to EX Buff, Kano Ball Specials priority, and some adjustments to normals in Cyber so he can excel at the defensive design he's supposed to excel at. Those things he actually needs to stay alive, while other things he'll need to be at least at the low end of a Top 10.

Again, I think he's a solid mid tier character, but in comparison to the TG Raiden, Hellfire Scorpion, and Swarm Queen D'Vorah's of the world, it just isn't enough for him to keep his position without buffs after multiple patches.

Shhhhh stop spreading these logical responses. Other Kano mains might hear you