Question - Kano KANO needs some buffs?

[Prinz]

Just a friendly FYI @GAV. I don't want it at +1. I want it at -4. that other guy wants it at +1. I just want it to be safe, because as it stands, I, and no other Kano player has any incentive to use it, as you're -14 on block, and -5 ON HIT. It does things, but everything it does is done better by other tools.

Want a HKD off <string>? Cancel into ball.
Want an Anti Air? B1

Realistically speaking, it's second to Cybernetic's up laser as the most useless move in his arsenal.

You're asking for too little. Commando Kano needs at least something over the other characters. Maybe b1's advantage is fair because it's a pretty fast advancing mid, but he needs something to scare people with.
Choke is high, has reasonable range and is blockable. If it were +1 Kano could pressure standing opponents safely. They could still duck the move and punish, but they'd think twice hence the low grab.
Right now, this variation is average. I don't cope with average. We need not cope with average. We need advantage.

 

[RM Jonnitti]

Git gud

 

[DFC]

@Pterodactyl

I will apologize for my choice of words, but the man is partially at fault for where this thread went.

 

[Pterodactyl]

@Pterodactyl

I will apologize for my choice of words, but the man is partially at fault for where this thread went.

I can understand your anger, buff threads are actually somewhat important as the devs do scrub these forums from time to time. How important is unknown to us, but it sucks when someone asks for buffs for your character of choice and what they demand is damn near a joke.

That's why me and the Goro boys made a short, concise, reasonable list that no one could argue and posted it with group collaboration before some "less than ideal" person could make a thread asking for things like 1 frame pokes or a tracking tele stomp or something goofy and unreasonable like that, which would inevitably lead to a thread that's 90% reaction gifs and mocking.

Like this one...

 

[AK Stormthegates]

No.

 

[DFC]

I can understand your anger, buff threads are actually somewhat important as the devs do scrub these forums from time to time. How important is unknown to us, but it sucks when someone asks for buffs for your character of choice and what they demand is damn near a joke.

That's why me and the Goro boys made a short, concise, reasonable list that no one could argue and posted it with group collaboration before some "less than ideal" person could make a thread asking for things like 1 frame pokes or a tracking tele stomp or something goofy and unreasonable like that, which would inevitably lead to a thread that's 90% reaction gifs and mocking.

Like this one...

I think the Kano board is getting one of those soon enough.

@AK Stormthegates Thanks for the quality discussion that has long since shifted from the OP.

 

[seniorcuddlebuns]

I would argue that Kano is one of the more fair characters in this game. I wish this game didn't foster the mentality that 50/50s are REQUIRED on a character to be good. The only variation I see needing some help is Commando, maybe have it so command grabs connect on staggered opponents.

Character designs like Johnny Cage, Kano, and Kotal are what I wish were more of in this game. Characters whose gameplans don't revolve around making the opponent guess on unreactable 50/50s that lead into 30%+ damage.

 

[M2Dave]

#KuffBano

#ZuffBoning

 

[AK Stormthegates]

@Pterodactyl I think that's going to actually happen soon enough here.

@AK Stormthegates Thanks for the quality discussion that has long since shifted from the OP.

Then allow me to give my proper opinion on Kano:
Both the Cutthroat and Cybernetic variations are incredibly strong and hideously overlooked by the entire community seeing as there is no one to rep him at a tournament yet. Cutthroat has very good footsies and a very strong corner carry into a corner 50/50 with b1 and b3, b32 being +1 on block. Combine this with Ex kano ball and you have very good frame traps into full juggle for at least 30%. Air kano ball and anti-air kano ball are amazing as they come out fast and out prioritize alot of the jumpins in the game pretty much giving him a Street fighter DP. Cybernetics loses the 50/50 but gets access to mid knives and b1/b2 which are amazing. You just have to play with more meter in this variation which is fine since mid knives are quite spammable.

Commando I am not sold on as he has almost no combo starters and gets a ghetto b1 string which is still good but nothing super amazing. I feel like commando is incomplete and would not be surprised if they gave him more strings from cybernetic like b13 2+4/1+3 to give him a better midscreen game but it would be really hard to judge without seeing it because his parries and grabs are VERY good.

The character is super underrepresented which is weird because I really can't see alot wrong with him and he is super fun to play in any of his variations. Is he broken? No, but he can pretty much hold his own against a lot of the cast and IMO is one of the better designed characters in the game with multiple variations being viable.

 

[Zoidberg747]

He meant let's not have a character who is deemed "fine" for a year so they get 1 adjustment out of 6 patches combined, only for people to realize she isn't that good at all a year later and could have used some of those buffs that almost the whole cast got through patch season.

Yeah Raven was so bad Ducky got top 8 at one of the last tournaments of the game's lifespan. Yep.

Edit: Kano needs nothing, stop being bitches

 

[DFC]

@AK Stormthegates
Earlier in the night I thought he was a bit worse than what you say, I felt he was more of a Jack. But some thinking, he DOES have great stuff on those two, and it's a shame that he doesn't get much love. Commando does need touching up on though. Not necessarily juggles though.

Yeah Raven was so bad Ducky got top 8 at one of the last tournaments of the game's lifespan. Yep.

You do realize that Ducky is also an incredibly talented player, right? Him dragging a character to top 8 says more about him than it does about his character.

 

[DixieFlatline78]

Oh here we fucking go.

Look, Kano needs maybe two buffs: The hitbox on his overhead in Cutthroat doesn't seem to even reach the end of his knife and the Choke whiffs after being properly confirmed. He doesn't need a fifty fifty in Cybernetic, he doesn't need super duper safe pressure.

Kano can do everything. He's the most versatile character in the game. He's a jack of all trades, he's good at just about everything. He's only missing a teleport, but I'm guessing you guys want that too. As the game changes, he may need buffs to keep up with the others who are getting megabuffed but that's it.

I win, I lose, but I don't fucking whine because my middle tier character doesn't steamroll over everyone else in the game. That's probably because I refused to play the two I planned to play (Kung Jin and Raiden) because they were top tier and I'm a bitch like that. The fact that NRS is bowing to this complaining is what'll destroy the game. Prepare for Pig of the Hut to start bitching in a year about how Kenshi didn't get buffed as hard as everyone else.

 

[juicepouch]

Yeah Raven was so bad Ducky got top 8 at one of the last tournaments of the game's lifespan. Yep.

Edit: Kano needs nothing, stop being bitches

Or you end up with Grundy who got 1 nerf and 3 practically meaningless buffs who turned out to be complete hot garbage

the door swings both ways

 

[Zoidberg747]

@AK Stormthegates
Earlier in the night I thought he was a bit worse than what you say, I felt he was more of a Jack. But some thinking, he DOES have great stuff on those two, and it's a shame that he doesn't get much love. Commando does need touching up on though. Not necessarily juggles though.


You do realize that Ducky is also an incredibly talented player, right? Him dragging a character to top 8 says more about him than it does about his character.

I mained Raven for (almost) all of IGAU lifespan. She needed absolutely no buffs. Sure Ducky is a monster but he was one of the only ones who could utilize her toolset to its full potential. I admit I asked for buffs but I was straight up wrong. When played at the highest level she wasn;t OP but she was god damn good.

I like the Kano comparison becuase Kano also needs no buffs, but he isnt nearly as good as Raven was.

 

[SaltShaker]

Yeah Raven was so bad Ducky got top 8 at one of the last tournaments of the game's lifespan. Yep.

Edit: Kano needs nothing, stop being bitches

Your point kinda falls flat when the player you mentioned said it himself that he was wrong thinking she was upper mid and that she "sucked" near the end of the games lifespan. But keeping reaching.

Also, I don't know who your edit was directed to since I've been one of the most level headed members of the entire Kano community never even complaining about him, so I'll pretend as if I didn't see that part.

 

[DFC]

I mained Raven for (almost) all of IGAU lifespan. She needed absolutely no buffs. Sure Ducky is a monster but he was one of the only ones who could utilize her toolset to its full potential. I admit I asked for buffs but I was straight up wrong. When played at the highest level she wasn;t OP but she was god damn good.

I like the Kano comparison becuase Kano also needs no buffs, but he isnt nearly as good as Raven was.

No character should ever be labeled as "Fine" only a couple months in the game's life. Characters either need buffs, nerfs, or both. And as I said earlier, at the present moment, he does NOT need them. But in the future, if current trends continue, he WILL need them. Not the ones in the OP, but buffs nonetheless. the moment a character is "Fine", is the moment they are dead in the water.

 

[Zoidberg747]

Your point kinda falls flat when the player you mentioned said it himself that he was wrong thinking she was upper mid and that she "sucked" near the end of the games lifespan. But keeping reaching.

Also, I don't know who your edit was directed to since I've been one of the most level headed members of the entire Kano community never even complaining about him, so I'll pretend as if I didn't see that part.

The edit part wasn't directed at you no.

And I dont think arguing over a dead game is going to benefit anybody, we'll have to agree to disagree and leave it at that.

 

[villainous monk]

Commando needs a bit of help. That choke is a serious hazard and as cost me more matches last month then its won me. Besides the frame data it just feels so un safe in even safe situations.

Cutthroat I could/would like to complain or voice my opinion about but I'm so old school that I tend to work through and not use some of the tools which Kano has. I would like to see his f212 to have a faster start up as well as his b121 overhead end in a low would be nice. Even his blade slice needs some work.

I think Cyber needs work too but I've been using Commando and Cutthroat more to say the least. I still think the saving graces for cyber are his knifes b1, b2,3,1 string and f324 which I think is butter.

But to use this great character takes a lot of patience and time. LOTS OF TIME!!! We all want the best but we can't end up like some others who whine and bitch and moan about it. Endless fucking threads about nurfs and buffs and whatnot when in a years time or 2 they've gone on to Gears or COD or something else. What I'm saying is I remember. I remember MK9 Kano and Baraka high on that podium not the highest mind yo but high none the less. We all know what came next. I didn't see it coming and I was new here on the site. I learned very quickly just how fast a few can turn into many and end up "voicing" their concerns over a character rather then dealing with the character you've chosen. Like some one told me here a long long time ago.

"Just because you don't like him... Doesn't mean someone else does so pick another character or learn the one you got and stfu." In so many words.

So lets be chill about this and make that list. Which is a great idea.

 

[Error]

There should be a post/time requirement to post threads otherwise your thread would have to be reviewed by a mod first.

 

[Error]

So far, every time I read the notes after a new patch, I'm just happy to see that he hasn't been nerfed yet

but didn't they nerf B1?

 

[Shaazzyam]

but didn't they nerf B1?

they fixed it, according to paulo.

also, i wish i played online cybernetic kano.

 

[MadeOfMetal]

Ok guys. After playing and main my man kano for a month already, I think he needs some buffs. I'm not telling he's bad. But against top tiers he's pretty fuck mostly. Even using his best weapons the zoning elements. We know so far by now that zoning in this game is just gonna give u a salty day.
So I believe he need some overheads in cybernetic variation at least one.
NJ1 needs to increase his hitbox and be more faster, because he's very easy to block and very punishable.
In cutthroat variation he needs more safe elements for pressure.

I think this at the moment are fair buffs and this isn't make the character broke or unfair.

I don't know, what do you think about it?.

my reaction to another person wanting yet another buff on their favorite character!

 

[SaltShaker]

The edit part wasn't directed at you no.

And I dont think arguing over a dead game is going to benefit anybody, we'll have to agree to disagree and leave it at that.

Well it's not really the game as more of the characters as examples. Juice used an even better example with Grundy. I remember Tyrant himself making a thread about how he was either gonna quit the game or switch to Superman because Grundy was mid tier at best, but possibly worse, and instead of the community trusting his word or at least trying to figure out if/why he's wrong most people blasted it. The majority of TYM filled the thread with "Grundy is a great character/Tyrant is washed up and should change his playstyle/Buff Grundy would make him S Tier/etc". Meanwhile after a little time passed everyone was like, "oops, damn maybe Grundy could have used something during all those patches he missed out on because he kinda sucks".

That's the only thing I don't want to see happen to Kano. Something @General M2Dave has been saying for a while is very similar to Tyrant back then, that he's a mid tier character with solid tools, but the meta of MKX limits Kano's upside. Almost the same argument Tyrant made. I argued against it saying Kano was Top 10 for a while until I started playing some of the guys who are close to, or even thetop reps of their characters and saw the difference. Dave is 100% right about this part. Where I think the heat comes from is someone saying buff a mid tier character, which I can understand, but what others have to realize is that if he was a 50/50 mixup character he needs nothing. That type of mid tier can always strive in the environment of MKX. Like Cutthroat, it honestly needs nothing at all except fixes (or I consider them fixes at least), not buffs. Cyber, deemed as variation #1 currently will need something though. If he was a Quan Chi level character it'd be easier to say, "hey he's great, he needs nothing", and it's likely true. Like who needed to ever buff Aquaman? But Kano isn't of that caliber. He'll need something when the buffs start rolling out patch after patch or he'll get left behind in the long run.

Vs the Top 10, I think he has half even MU's and half losing MU's, with 2 of those MU's being a death sentence. Almost our entire split in half community agrees on that part. That MU outlook is not the recipe for future success without some sort of improvements. As far as what he does need, I think it's a list of a few things. He doesn't need them all, but he does need some. The only things he undoubtedly does need is a choke he can actually use in Commando, a better hitbox for Cutt B1, fix to EX Buff, Kano Ball Specials priority, and some adjustments to normals in Cyber so he can excel at the defensive design he's supposed to excel at. Those things he actually needs to stay alive, while other things he'll need to be at least at the low end of a Top 10.

Again, I think he's a solid mid tier character, but in comparison to the TG Raiden, Hellfire Scorpion, and Swarm Queen D'Vorah's of the world, it just isn't enough for him to keep his position without buffs after multiple patches.

 

[Prinz]

they fixed it, according to paulo.

You naive little boy.

 

[kabelfritz]

I have played a lot of cutthroat. And yes, I think he needs some buffs.

One thing I don't like his how his Power Charge DD3 is so easily snuffed out. It does like 10 or 15% dmg to yourself and it doesn't give you that big of a buff. But the most annoying part is that if you get hit once, even with the EX, it removes the buff. I feel like that should be upgraded a little.

I like Kotal Kahn's Power Charge thing, I think its blood sacrifice? It works for the first 4 hits and gives you like 15+ secs to get the hits, even if your opponent combos you.

you know that you also lose the damage on yourself when you get hit, right? and that your Standard bnb does 54% when active?