Question - Kano KANO needs some buffs?

[WarriorOfSunlight]

The choke buff is awesome. I'm a commando main and I already been seeing some decent results.

B13 choke is good. I can b1 pause command grab. And now since opponents start to expect the choke after 3, I can do b13 pause command grab.

Another good use is b31 choke.

It just gives more mind games.

F4 to choke is decent too.

 

[M2Dave]

As I have already said, Bone Shaper Shinnok is currently a much better Cybernetic Kano. Bone Shaper has similar zoning abilities with dark beam but also includes block pressure with EX low fireball, a 50/50 mix up with b+3 / f+4, and a very long-ranged launching armor move.

See? A zoning character has an unsafe overhead attack and the world did not fall apart. I am not suggesting that Cybernetic acquire one, but he needs better offense. I would like to see a useful up laser and more block frame advantage on EX knife toss.

 

[Error]

Saltshaker and I, as well as anyone who called Kano being left behind confirmed prophets.

@I GOT HANDS

 

[DFC]

Saltshaker and I, as well as anyone who called Kano being left behind confirmed prophets.

@I GOT HANDS

Can't we go back to the good old days when that was a stupid idea and will never happen?

 

[Youphemism]

As I have already said, Bone Shaper Shinnok is currently a much better Cybernetic Kano. Bone Shaper has similar zoning abilities with dark beam but also includes block pressure with EX low fireball, a 50/50 mix up with b+3 / f+4, and a very long-ranged launching armor move.

See? A zoning character has an unsafe overhead attack and the world did not fall apart. I am not suggesting that Cybernetic acquire one, but he needs better offense. I would like to see a useful up laser and more block frame advantage on EX knife toss.

I'm sorry what?! BONE SHAPER Shinnok is a better Cybernetic Kano? Bone Shaper does not have "similar zoning abilities with dark beam", his beam is a 14 frame high. That's like saying Sonya is a better Cybernetic Kano... As for Shinnok's "long-ranged launching armor move" you need to spend a second bar to convert off of it which is arguably a waste of resources.

Useful Up Laser, more plus frames on EX Knives, a slight damage boost on his variation specific launchers in B132+4MB/B232+4MB and a fix for F4~DB1 since it whiffs on crouch blocking opponents half the time and misses at max (ie most of the time whiff punishing) range. That's all he needs.

 

[M2Dave]

I'm sorry what?! BONE SHAPER Shinnok is a better Cybernetic Kano? Bone Shaper does not have "similar zoning abilities with dark beam", his beam is a 14 frame high. That's like saying Sonya is a better Cybernetic Kano... As for Shinnok's "long-ranged launching armor move" you need to spend a second bar to convert off of it which is arguably a waste of resources.

Allow me to teach you the basics of zoning.

Dark beam starts at 14 frames, does 8% of damage, and travels very fast. The move controls horizontal space very well.

Sonya's ring starts at 19 frames, does 5% of damage, and travels slower. The move does not control horizontal space very well.

Shinnok's staple EX low scoop combo is NJP, f+2,2,1+3 xx dark beam. 30% of damage, re-stand, and +8 from a half-screen armored launcher using only one bar.

You are ignorant as always.

 

[xInfra Deadx]

I'm sorry what?! BONE SHAPER Shinnok is a better Cybernetic Kano? Bone Shaper does not have "similar zoning abilities with dark beam", his beam is a 14 frame high. That's like saying Sonya is a better Cybernetic Kano... As for Shinnok's "long-ranged launching armor move" you need to spend a second bar to convert off of it which is arguably a waste of resources.

Useful Up Laser, more plus frames on EX Knives, a slight damage boost on his variation specific launchers in B132+4MB/B232+4MB and a fix for F4~DB1 since it whiffs on crouch blocking opponents half the time and misses at max (ie most of the time whiff punishing) range. That's all he needs.

He may as well be a better Kano. 8% projectile, super fast recovery on whiff...and SAFE! Not to mention he out trades Cyber Kano any day.

 

[GAV]

Up ball has more reach than Kung Lao's EX spin? News to me. Does Kano get a full combo for doing EX Up Ball like Lao does for EX Spin (or even regular spin)? No.

My suggestion is merely so that he can use his fastest move to actually punish things that are -6 or -7 on block. It's a fix, not a buff. There's a difference. A SIX frame move can't punish something that's -7? This issue is only with Kano. Come on.....

It has a lot more reach than Kotal's air grab. I've had moderate success playing him in Commando and I've seen him played insanely well in both his other variatons, so stop trying to color in the argument to meet your purposes. Kano is a beast as long as you keep pushing the fight to midrange.

 

[GAV]

Kano isn't a zoner. He's midrange r with some zoning tools. If he were a zoner then I wouldn't have had success with him.

 

[MrInsaynne]

It has a lot more reach than Kotal's air grab. I've had moderate success playing him in Commando and I've seen him played insanely well in both his other variatons, so stop trying to color in the argument to meet your purposes. Kano is a beast as long as you keep pushing the fight to midrange.

If you scroll up a little more, I never said he was bad. I been saying he's top 10 in my opinion since a little after day 1. But you're missing the point behind my argument.

My argument is that universally in this game, when move that is -9 for example on block, it is punished with a reversal special move that is within reach and is 9 frames start up. Same goes for something thats -8, -7 (Lao spin) and -6 (Cassie flip kick and reptile EX Slide) and so on. Unfortunally, this "universal" mechanic, is not applied to Kano's up ball for unexplained reasons. And it's probably a bug of some sort. Cassie can punish her own B12 (which is -6 on block) with a flip kick (6f start up). Kano however cannot, and it has the same start up and he is very close to her, practically inside her body

 

[GAV]

If you scroll up a little more, I never said he was bad. I been saying he's top 10 in my opinion since a little after day 1. But you're missing the point behind my argument.

My argument is that universally in this game, when move that is -9 for example on block, it is punished with a reversal special move that is within reach and is 9 frames start up. Same goes for something thats -8, -7 (Lao spin) and -6 (Cassie flip kick and reptile EX Slide) and so on. Unfortunally, this "universal" mechanic, is not applied to Kano's up ball for unexplained reasons. And it's probably a bug of some sort. Cassie can punish her own B12 (which is -6 on block) with a flip kick (6f start up). Kano however cannot, and it has the same start up and he is very close to her, practically inside her body

I wasn't using it to punish anything other than aerial opponents though. I was comboing into his choke for that. His b2 creates some insane mixup opportunities on hit.

 

[MrInsaynne]

I wasn't using it to punish anything other than aerial opponents though. I was comboing into his choke for that. His b2 creates some insane mixup opportunities on hit.

I get that, and that's fine. But again, its still 6 frames. And its not like it doesn't hit grounded opponents. It does. But it doesn't make sense that he can't punish anything that's -6 with his only 6f move. It's a universal rule that Kano's up ball just seems to ignore

 

[GAV]

Punishing anything other than jumping opponents with up ball was never even a thought. I want access to more damage than that on a punish.

 

[Diaphone]

EX upball is safe now... except when it isn't 80% of the time because it only hits once x.x So nothing really changed

 

[DFC]

EX upball is safe now... except when it isn't 80% of the time because it only hits once x.x So nothing really changed

It truly is amazing. Thank the great Eyebrows of the sky for this wondrous buff!

 

[Youphemism]

Allow me to teach you the basics of zoning.

Dark beam starts at 14 frames, does 8% of damage, and travels very fast. The move controls horizontal space very well.

Sonya's ring starts at 19 frames, does 5% of damage, and travels slower. The move does not control horizontal space very well.

Shinnok's staple EX low scoop combo is NJP, f+2,2,1+3 xx dark beam. 30% of damage, re-stand, and +8 from a half-screen armored launcher using only one bar.

You are ignorant as always.

And Kanos knives are 10 frame mids, Sonyas ring is a 19 frame mid. Point is while Shinnok and Sonya both are comparable to Kano in different ways they don't play like Kano in general. Sonya and Shinnok have mixups and play on them whereas Cybernetic Kano does not. As for the low scoop combo I would have recognised you weren't talking about EX shoulder had you not been so vague with your statements as per usual.

But yeah go ahead, call me the ignorant one. Meanwhile you continue to not prove your point because you'd rather sit behind your computer screen and criticize and insult rather than do something to show us how Bone Shaper Shinnok is a zoner instead like, oh I don't know, go to competitions. Please...

 

[FlappyDaniel]

Throw is the only mixup you need

 

[Zhidoreptiloid]

Buff D'Vorah & Raiden next!

You forget to buff tempest KL

 

[DrFolmer]

Honestly, Kano is fine. He's kinda a Jack of all trades. Kano has some good projectiles, especially in Cybernetic - however some characters are more focused and refined in terms of zoning than Kano, but these particular characters might be vulnerable to Kano's pressure. Kano has a lot of tools at his disposal and actually some overlooked facts in regards of his specials. Upball is extremely fast in execution (I think it's about the same as KL spin?). The thing Kano players (including me) tend to do wrong is relying on his specials way too much. Upballs get predictable (thankfully EX is safe on block I think?). Once you get the hang of his knives and the upballs you actually have a fighter with some scary space control. Especially with the air ball for gap closing when you jump a projectile.

Cybernetic comes with some improved zoning tools as well as some decent combos with the Eye Laser.

Cutthroat brings some mixup to the table and some flashy combos.

Commando is really helpful to deal with pressure, however I do think this variation is lacking in terms of midscreen damage, but he makes up for it with 17 % parries and 20% grabs.

I seldom feel like it's Kano as a character that loses my games. It's mostly me or them online moments where you input an upball to win the round but you end up making an uppercut that whiffs and then you lose the round. #plsbuffonlinepls

I'd say Kano is pretty balanced to be honest. I would wish Commando could get some NRS love but hey, they did a good job making a balanced game. Even Kung Lao is less cancer this game than MK9. Besides, Kano has top 5 personality in the game - that's enough reason to play him

 

[DFC]

My good friend, please refer to the other Kano buff thread. http://testyourmight.com/threads/finally-the-kano-community-speaks-up-save-kanos-relevance-with-needed-fixes-and-reasonable-buffs.53746/ This one is a whole lot more negative and disorganized.