Kabal Pressure System

[CURBOLICOUS]

i think after u hit someone with f3 ndc and then do 2 or b1 into ndc it will hit cuz if u hit the character then their hitbox for some reason gets a little bigger cuz of the flinch from the hit, idk if any1 notices that cuz i play jax players and some ermacs and i do those strings after i hit a f3 ndc or even f32. idk if this is true or if they accidently block high? but it seems to make sense to me. on liu kangs 213 the first hit whiff on crouch blocking but if u hit d3 then hit 213 the first hit wont wiff along with f12 followed up with 213 it wont whiff. all this on block not hit

 

[BigMilk]

i think after u hit someone with f3 ndc and then do 2 or b1 into ndc it will hit cuz if u hit the character then their hitbox for some reason gets a little bigger cuz of the flinch from the hit, idk if any1 notices that cuz i play jax players and some ermacs and i do those strings after i hit a f3 ndc or even f32. idk if this is true or if they accidently block high? but it seems to make sense to me. on liu kangs 213 the first hit whiff on crouch blocking but if u hit d3 then hit 213 the first hit wont wiff along with f12 followed up with 213 it wont whiff. all this on block not hit

So are you saying that it IS possible to to mix B1 and 2 strings into your pressure against as long as you dont begin with them?

 

[Master D.]

i think after u hit someone with f3 ndc and then do 2 or b1 into ndc it will hit cuz if u hit the character then their hitbox for some reason gets a little bigger cuz of the flinch from the hit, idk if any1 notices that cuz i play jax players and some ermacs and i do those strings after i hit a f3 ndc or even f32. idk if this is true or if they accidently block high? but it seems to make sense to me. on liu kangs 213 the first hit whiff on crouch blocking but if u hit d3 then hit 213 the first hit wont wiff along with f12 followed up with 213 it wont whiff. all this on block not hit

I was hoping no one would come across this, but I guess I have to address it now. I'm not sure what the Jax player is doing, but b+1 and 2 will never hit Jax unless you do it after JIP or after f+4 in juggles. I have only come across three exceptions where 2 may or may not hit depending on how you NDC. The three exceptions are Sonya, Smoke, and Ermac. 2 never hits Sonya if you NDC at full speed. In order to hit her with 2 you have to have a slight delay after a NDC. So, the notation may look something like this: f+3,2 NDC~N~2. The N represents neutral, which means don't press 2 until after a slight delay. This way you can still pressure Sonya with the 2 string with minimal change to your rush down. Smoke and Ermac are similar cases where you need a slight delay to connect the 2 after a NDC.

I was going to add this to my original post, but I didn't want to make it too complicated at first. Their rating could be something like 2.5 where the 2 works, just with some small complications.

So are you saying that it IS possible to to mix B1 and 2 strings into your pressure against as long as you dont begin with them?

If the character is rated a 2, b+1 and all its variations will always connect and if the character is rated a 3, 2 will always connect. The small exceptions are Sonya, Ermac, and Smoke at the moment.

 

[CURBOLICOUS]

I was hoping no one would come across this, but I guess I have to address it now. I'm not sure what the Jax player is doing, but b+1 and 2 will never hit Jax unless you do it after JIP or after f+4 in juggles. I have only come across three exceptions where 2 may or may not hit depending on how you NDC. The three exceptions are Sonya, Smoke, and Ermac. 2 never hits Sonya if you NDC at full speed. In order to hit her with 2 you have to have a slight delay after a NDC. So, the notation may look something like this: f+3,2 NDC~N~2. The N represents neutral, which means don't press 2 until after a slight delay. This way you can still pressure Sonya with the 2 string with minimal change to your rush down. Smoke and Ermac are similar cases where you need a slight delay to connect the 2 after a NDC.

actually ive hit jax after pressuring from the f3 cuz of his flinch, but like i said idk if its cuz they block high or the flinch but it works with liukang also so maybe theres a bigger hitbox when a character flinches test it out ull see
I was going to add this to my original post, but I didn't want to make it too complicated at first. Their rating could be something like 2.5 where the 2 works, just with some small complications.



If the character is rated a 2, b+1 and all its variations will always connect and if the character is rated a 3, 2 will always connect. The small exceptions are Sonya, Ermac, and Smoke at the moment.

actually if u hit them from the flinch of f3 it might work, u should try it cuz the same happens with liu

 

[Master D.]

actually if u hit them from the flinch of f3 it might work, u should try it cuz the same happens with liu

No, it still doesn't work. All it takes is a slight delay after the NDC for the 2 to connect against Sonya, Ermac, and Smoke. Also, Liu Kang is a solid 3. I have never had problems connecting Kabal's 2 when pressuring.

 

[CURBOLICOUS]

No, it still doesn't work. All it takes is a slight delay after the NDC for the 2 to connect against Sonya, Ermac, and Smoke. Also, Liu Kang is a solid 3. I have never had problems connecting Kabal's 2 when pressuring.

so for sure the flinch doesnt give them a bigger hitbox cuz i play many jax players and im sure they dont block high and the animation shows them ducking. you would think the online is wut it making it do that but im pretty sure ive hit it on a practice dummy. idk dude maybe i must have experienced it with a 3 character but im like almost positive i did it to a ducking jax.

 

[IIAvirus]

down 1 is very very good , Also f3 dash cancel is really good and sandingd 2 dash cancel and back 1 dash cancel are all really fast if you can do these strings fast enough you wont have to worry about people poking out because its so hard to but if you think they are going to poke out just do his overhead or low cutter or grab he has so many options its crazy i would not recommend doing the f3,2 dc because its too easy to poke out of now the only time i would do that is if im going to do the low cutter or overhead after that! good luck!

 

[eskuAdradit0]

Well, I've been testing some stuff

1,1,1 NDC is +8 on block. And Noob Saibot is 3 on the KPS (Kabal Pressure System). So I was checking out if Noob Saibot on crouch blocking would really get hit. Well, it looks like he gets only hit by two of the jabs on the whole string. It could either be 1, (1), 1, NDC or (1),1, 1, NDC.
Seeing as Noob Saibot's fastest poke is D3 (7f) followed by his D1(8f), I thought this might be a block infinite against Noob since standing 1 is 13f, but due to inconsistent hitboxes (1 of the 3 jabs whiffing) I can't really tell if the frame advantage on 1,1,1, NDC on block is the same as 1, (1), 1, NDC or (1), 1, 1, NDC, which is why I'm asking if you guys know this or could test it as I lack of another human being nearby in holiday's season.

It could be that Noob's only way of getting out is just to crouch or uppercut, but last 1 on the string hits mid, so it's not a really good idea.
Also, 1,1,1, NDC on hit is +20 and gives pushback, but the NDC sets you right back on his face, so let's not think about it at all, lol.

Can you guys clarify/help?

[MENTION=16]REO[/MENTION] [MENTION=3937]Somberness[/MENTION] [MENTION=8219]Master D.[/MENTION]

thanks

 

[Playpal]

[MENTION=4145]eskuAdradit0[/MENTION] It's not a block infinite because the first 1 hits high. If noob saibot reads you're going to do another 111 ndc, he's just going to poke out. The second hit of 11 takes 31 frames to execute, more than enough time to poke with a D3.

 

[eskuAdradit0]

[MENTION=4145]eskuAdradit0[/MENTION] It's not a block infinite because the first 1 hits high. If noob saibot reads you're going to do another 111 ndc, he's just going to poke out. The second hit of 11 takes 31 frames to execute, more than enough time to poke with a D3.

It does not always hits high. I'm looking at it right now. Sometimes the first 1 will hit but the second 1 won't, some other times the first 1 will whiff while the second one will hit. It's just that at no times will all the 3 "1" hit.
It's not stance specific, also.

 

[Playpal]

It does not always hits high. I'm looking at it right now. Sometimes the first 1 will hit but the second 1 won't, some other times the first 1 will whiff while the second one will hit. It's just that at no times will all the 3 "1" hit.
It's not stance specific, also.

Standing 1 will always whiff on neutral crouch. All they have to do is let go of block and poke.

 

[eskuAdradit0]

Standing 1 will always whiff on neutral crouch. All they have to do is let go of block and poke

Oh, you mean neutral crouch, not crouch blocking. Nvm then.

 

[Master D.]

First post has been updated.

 

[jokey77]

This thread is getting better and better, great work!!

@ Master D.:
I saw these last tournament-videos, your Kabal was great! I have started to use ordinarys 3s in my pressure game like you did! Well, not exactly like you did, but every now and then I do manage to pull off a few consecutive NDCs! ;-)

Btw the animation of a NDC after 3 sometimes seems, as if Kabal would stumble forward? Does this make any difference in terms of recovery-time? That may be stupid questions, I really don´t want to highjack this thread!

 

[Bildslash]

As a ranking 4 character user (Scorpion, Rain):

What is the best way to get away of Kabal's pressure game?

I have a hard time poking my way out when b+1~2 is involved. Any pointers on that are greatly appreciated.

 

[GGA soonk]

For some characters rated 2, the B1 can be tricky.

Kung Lao - B1 whiffs on neutral crouch.
Reptile - B1 on rare occasion can whiff on crouch block.
Kitana - B1 whiffs about half the time on neutral crouch.
Cage - B1 on rare occasion can whiff on neutral crouch.
Quan Chi - B1 can whiff sometimes on crouch block.

IDK if you want to add a footnote to your OP for things like these, but here you go.

 

[GGA soonk]

As a ranking 4 character user (Scorpion, Rain):

What is the best way to get away of Kabal's pressure game?

I have a hard time poking my way out when b+1~2 is involved. Any pointers on that are greatly appreciated.

You can armor between B1 and 2 in the B1 2 string. Try an ex Roundhouse.

 

[Bildslash]

You can armor between B1 and 2 in the B1 2 string. Try an ex Roundhouse.

Is there a way not involving meter?

 

[GGA soonk]

Is there a way not involving meter?

Jump out/over after NDC or D1 I guess. The thing with Kabal's pressure is something like B12~ndc only guarantees him a d1/d3, not another complete blockstring(except the 2~ndc, since you're one of the larger hitbox characters). Of course you're unlikely to see a Kabal player d1 after every ndc so after the dash you have an opening of about 9-10 frames. If the Kabal player is in fact doing 2~ndc repeatedly, I'm not really sure what you can do, as I believe it leaves you at -9 and is a 9 frame attack. I'm sure I'm missing something, though, so hopefully someone else can chime in.

 

[Saltea Moonspell]

D1 works as AA, so he will be cought in his way out and finished with f4 into ndc. After NDC any 9 frame move or faster will cut in. I think after f32 ndc Kabal has a poke guarantee, but in the moment its blocked Kabal is on - frames. So if I do b12, ndc, d3. Then this can be jumped out, but if i go with b12, ndc, d1 I will get jumping opponent on his way out.

 

[GGA soonk]

D1 works as AA, so he will be cought in his way out and finished with f4 into ndc. After NDC any 9 frame move or faster will cut in. I think after f32 ndc Kabal has a poke guarantee, but in the moment its blocked Kabal is on - frames. So if I do b12, ndc, d3. Then this can be jumped out, but if i go with b12, ndc, d1 I will get jumping opponent on his way out.

Right, but it's all a guess really. If he respects your ability to D1/D3 and blocks to wait for it, you can just F3~ndc for free. Somewhere he has to take the chance to either D1 or jump out.

With that said:
D1 is probably your best/safest bet. After something like B12~ndc you're at -3. If you try to D1 and Kabal tries another NDC string, you will win and from there you can get out of pressure however you choose(jump out, try your own pressure, whatever you do). If he tries 2~ndc I think it will trade at random, so one of you will get it, which sucks for you. If he tries to D1 it will beat out your D1, but the plus here is that D1 on hit is only +1, so you can still jump out of the next NDC string or even try your own normal that is less than 12 frames.

 

[Saltea Moonspell]

Right, but it's all a guess really. If he respects your ability to D1/D3 and blocks to wait for it, you can just F3~ndc for free. Somewhere he has to take the chance to either D1 or jump out.

Not really, if i do lets say f32,ndc,d3 and you block all that, then after blocked d3 Kabal is on minus frames, so opponent can start his string or escape. IF he tries to jump out he may get cought with d1 or f4 that will bring him right back to the heat. Another option would be ex armor. But we are trying to focus on none meter solutions. To be honest i like people who poke. That means i can mix up offense with ex dash. And then the "turtle blocker" starts again. In one word: Kabal is cool xD

 

[Bildslash]

Thanks to both that's very useful info.

The b1 2 itself can't be pocked out can it?

For instance, they do f3 2 xx NDC, b1 2, and when I try to poke the b1 stuffs it. F3 2 xx NDC leaves Kabal at +2 and b1 has a 13 frame startup turned into 11 due to the NDC (am I correct up until this point?). Then logically a 6 frame poke should beat b1 but it doesn't; at least from my experience.

 

[GGA soonk]

F32 is +3 on block, B1 is 13 frames. If you aren't hitting the D1, you're too late. If you play offline, have your friend do the dash cancels until you get better at the timing.

 

[Saltea Moonspell]

soonk speaks good about this practice. You need to know when to let go the block as well. The window is not really huge so you need to be precise. Try to jump out i know you can, and then you get the cross up. Look at the risk reward for you and Kabal here. You get d1 and if you miss he gets a full juggle that is at least 35%+. In online match this is 2x as hard as offline.