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Kabal Pressure System

I have devised a basic point system that showcases how well Kabal can utilize his main pressuring tools against certain characters. The system only takes in to account three moves f+3, b+1, and 2 because they have the potential of doing the most damage to your opponent. There are other moves you can add to pressure with and in some cases you will have to, but being able to use the three before mentioned moves makes winning a lot easier.

The point system is:

1 – Only f+3 variations can be used to pressure.
2 – f+3 and b+1 variations can be used to pressure.
2.5 - f+3 and b+1 can used to pressure. 2 can be used, but slight delay required after a NDC.
3 - f+3 variation, b+1 variation, and 2 can be used to pressure. However, connecting consecutive 2's doesn't work.
4 - f+3 variation, b+1 variation, and 2 can be used to pressure. Plus, connecting consecutive 2's does work.

Keep in mind that you can still use all three moves after a JIP to start pressuring, but after the initial move you might not be able to use b+1 or 2 to continue pressuring. This is mostly due to certain characters having lower hitboxes, so b+1 and 2 doesn't hit them. Also, after f+4 in juggles, b+1 and 2 will hit everyone and can be used initially to start pressuring.

Scorpion – 4
Liu Kang – 4
Kung Lao – 2
Sub-Zero – 2
Sindel – 4
Ermac – 2.5
Reptile – 2
Kitana – 2
Johnny Cage – 2
Jade – 4
Mileena – 1
Nightwolf – 3
Cyrax – 3
Noob – 4
Smoke – 2.5
Sektor – 1
Sonya – 2.5
Jax – 1
Kano – 4
Stryker – 4
Shang Tsung – 4
Baraka – 4
Kabal - 2
Raiden – 4
Cyber Sub-Zero – 3
Quan Chi – 2
Sheeva – 4
Skarlet – 2
Kenshi – 4
Rain – 4
Freddy Krueger – 4

Personally, I feel a lot more comfortable playing a character that has a rating of 3 or 4 because it opens up many ways to pressure and become less predictable. Also, based on the system it seems like the lower the rating the harder the match-up becomes with a couple of minor exceptions.

Kabal can zone very well, so in some matches you don’t have to bother knowing some of this stuff. Nonetheless, having a complete game is important to fully mastering Kabal, which is why I made a point system to show how you might pressure each character. When playing, I take a couple of things into consideration; the point system above, the opposing characters offensive tools, the opposing characters defensive tools, and any anti-zoning a character might have. Then, I simply adjust my game based on those factors. For example, Raiden has a rating of 4, average offensive tools, average defense, and very good anti-zoning strategy. This means I should rush the crap out of him. In some matches you will be better off zoning and in some matches you will be better off rushing down.

Discuss and provide suggestions if possible.

EDIT: Added a rating of 2.5 for a couple of characters.
EDIT#2: Added a rating of 4 and updated rating of 3.
 

ForeverKing

Patreon.com/MK_ForeverKing
Nice system. You think you can list some chains of pressure that you do majority of the time to keep your opponent blocking?
Like for example you can't do just do f3 2 ndc f3 2 ndc f3 2 ndc because your opponent will catch on really quickly, but maybe a nice chain would be like b12 ndc b2 ndc low poke f4 ndc etc. What do good Kabal players usually do?
 

REO

Undead
Nice write up. This is just another small bit on why I feel characters like Jax, Mileena, and Sektor have a small edge on Kabal. Your pressure options are severely stripped away against them. Not to mention, they can all anti-zone very well so they are motherfuckers to fight in general.

I will sticky this so the naive can absorb some knowledge on Kabal.
 
This point system only takes into consideration Kabal's rush down with ndc right? If so, I don't understand some of the characters' ratings. CSZ is a 3 but he has a super fast parry? Mileena is 1 yet her D1 is negative on hit and has no armor moves?
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Master D. said:
Freddy Krueger – 3.
Ass.

On a serious note, high level Kabal players know the importance of hitboxes. 2 and b+1 whiff on low block-crouching hitbox, so Kabal has to rush down with f+3 exclusively. As a result, his offense becomes predictable.
 

REO

Undead
This point system only takes into consideration Kabal's rush down with ndc right? If so, I don't understand some of the characters' ratings. CSZ is a 3 but he has a super fast parry? Mileena is 1 yet her D1 is negative on hit and has no armor moves?
Why would Mileena ever need to use d+1 to escape Kabal's NDC pressure? She only really has to worry about f+3, and f+3,2 loops. The gap is big enough after f+3 (13 frame window to interrupt) to sneak a roll in, and loops after f+3,2 (11 frames to interrupt) give her more than enough time to interrupt with her d+3.

[MENTION=275]Pig Of The Hut[/MENTION] was rolling me out of my pressure all day once he realized I couldn't use 2 and b+1. I had to resort to pokes afterwards to stuff his attempts which really diminished my rushdown.
 
Why would Mileena ever need to use d+1 to escape Kabal's NDC pressure? She only really has to worry about f+3, and f+3,2 loops. The gap is big enough after f+3 (13 frame window to interrupt) to sneak a roll in, and loops after f+3,2 (11 frames to interrupt) give her more than enough time to interrupt with her d+3.
F32 ndc is +2 on block, so she's not gonna roll to snuff out another F3. F3 ndc is 0, but it'd be pretty damn hard to snuff out a 13 frame move with a 12 frame move. D3 can't be what makes her one of Kabal's hardest opponents to rushdown; from the perspective of frame advantage, it's average at best.
 
This point system only takes into consideration Kabal's rush down with ndc right? If so, I don't understand some of the characters' ratings. CSZ is a 3 but he has a super fast parry? Mileena is 1 yet her D1 is negative on hit and has no armor moves?
Correct.

CSZ may have parry, but just like Raiden who has teleport, it's tough to anticipate what's coming when you have so many variations to mess with. Or, you can just go easy mode and spam iaGS.

Mileena being a 1 has nothing to do with not having armor or a crappy d+1. This system is mostly based on a characters low hitbox. B+1 and 2 don't hit her when she's crouching, so your pressure becomes predictable if you just rely on f+3. Yes, you can use d+3 and d+4, but they don't lead to juggles or +frames like b+1 and 2 respectively.

Kabal struggles rushing down low hitbox characters more than he struggles against armor moves and fast specials.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
I also want to throw this out there, and REO and Master D. can correct me if I am wrong. When a Kabal player does f+3,2 xx dash, you can block the first hit and get hit by the second hit, and Kabal's dash does not combo. In fact, Kabal will end up dashing to the other side of the screen, which is very useful for characters like Mileena and Freddy who do not mind being full screen away. Kabal can combo by doing f+3,2 xx EX dash, though.
 

REO

Undead
F32 ndc is +2 on block, so she's not gonna roll to snuff out another F3. F3 ndc is 0, but it'd be pretty damn hard to snuff out a 13 frame move with a 12 frame move. D3 can't be what makes her one of Kabal's hardest opponents to rushdown; from the perspective of frame advantage, it's average at best.
I don't understand what you're trying to imply or prove here.

I also want to throw this out there, and REO and Master D. can correct me if I am wrong. When a Kabal player does f+3,2 xx dash, you can block the first hit and get hit by the second hit, and Kabal's dash does not combo. In fact, Kabal will end up dashing to the other side of the screen, which is very useful for characters like Mileena and Freddy who do not mind being full screen away. Kabal can combo by doing f+3,2 xx EX dash, though.
Correct. Most players don't know about this.
 

xenogorgeous

Mileena is the best, Mileena 4ever !
Premium Supporter
This thread is, in fact, very interesting ..... maybe Smoke could have a better system rate ? His pokes and evasise tools seems to make him able to defend himself well against Kabal blockstring traps, hum ?
 

REO

Undead
It will combo, but it's impossible to hitconfirm off of just the last hit, so the Kabal player will dash cancel, leaving you knocked down and out of pressure.

If they were to some random reason follow through with the dash, it would combo.

Again, m2dave showing he knows nothing about this game.
It doesn't combo after hitting an opponent in crouch, which is what low hitbox characters will be usually in.
 
I don't understand what you're trying to imply or prove here.



Correct. Most players don't know about this.
My point was that F32 is a tough block string for mileena to get out of and therefore would have a tough time escaping pressure. But Master D's already explained her rating.
 

REO

Undead
My point was that F32 is a tough block string for mileena to get out of and therefore would have a tough time escaping pressure. But Master D's already explained her rating.
She has a 7f d+3 and 4 frames to interrupt the f+3 after f+3,2. I don't see how this is a problem worth mentioning that is exclusive to Mileena when it's something the cast has to deal with in general. Mileena is a lot harder to approach than other characters due to her footsies and general play style. She has it way better than others against Kabal's rushdown which you don't seem to understand.
 
Nice system. You think you can list some chains of pressure that you do majority of the time to keep your opponent blocking?
Like for example you can't do just do f3 2 ndc f3 2 ndc f3 2 ndc because your opponent will catch on really quickly, but maybe a nice chain would be like b12 ndc b2 ndc low poke f4 ndc etc. What do good Kabal players usually do?
If a character is rated a 3, your pressuring should revolve around using b+1 variations and 2 NDC. Of course the occasional low poke doesn't hurt. A small chain someone might do could like this: JIP, b+1 NDC, f+3 NDC, b+1,2 NDC, 2 NDC, grab.

There are an infinite number of ways you can alter your rush down game against a character with a rating of 3. Even against characters with a rating of 2, you can make them fear you if you mix it up properly.
 

mekane

Noob
I don't quite understand the JIP mechanics of the game. Don't you basically just have frame advantage after a blocked JIP? So wouldn't the opponent still be able to block high against the JIP, then when u land they opponent could switch to block low, and then if you did a high starter like 2, they could still punish with a poke since it would whiff if they have a low hitbox in crouch block?
 
She has a 7f d+3 and 4 frames to interrupt the f+3 after f+3,2. I don't see how this is a problem worth mentioning that is exclusive to Mileena when it's something the cast has to deal with in general. Mileena is a lot harder to approach than other characters due to her footsies and general play style. She has it way better than others against Kabal's rushdown which you don't seem to understand.
I had a question about the rating system because you are right, I didn't understand (even though Mileena's ability to play footsies has nothing to do with the rating system). I figured Mileena's problem with escaping Kabal's F3 string was a problem worth mentioning because I thought the rating system was based simply on how easily the character can escape pressure, such as via armor. However, I now realize the rating system is based on how useful his pressure strings are, not how easily escapable his rush down is.
 

G4S KT

Gaming4Satan Founder
woah, hold the phone, f32 NDC is +2 on block? when they removed the infinite I read it was made so that f32 NDC was 0 on block. That's not correct?

[MENTION=16]REO[/MENTION]?
 
woah, hold the phone, f32 NDC is +2 on block? when they removed the infinite I read it was made so that f32 NDC was 0 on block. That's not correct?

[MENTION=16]REO[/MENTION]?
It's still + frames. I'm just not sure if it's +1 or +2. If you do f+3,2 NDC, d+1 becomes uninterruptible except X-Ray or armor moves.

EDIT: I just looked at the frame data and his d+1 is 7f, so that means f+3,2 NDC is +2.
 
Nomad Dash - can be cancelled after 17 frames
Advantage on block when cancelled into nomad dash:
1 - -10
1,1 - -3
1,1,1 - +8
1,1,B+4 - +1
2 - +1
2,1 - -6
3 - +3
4 - -1
D+1 - -16
D+3 - -15
D+4 - -2
B+1 - +1
B+1,2 - +2
B+2 - -1
F+3 - 0
F+3,2 - +2
F+4 - -5

All this was on the stickied frame data thread. Shoutouts to Somberness.
 

ForeverKing

Patreon.com/MK_ForeverKing
Nomad Dash - can be cancelled after 17 frames
Advantage on block when cancelled into nomad dash:
1 - -10
1,1 - -3
1,1,1 - +8
1,1,B+4 - +1
2 - +1
2,1 - -6
3 - +3
4 - -1
D+1 - -16
D+3 - -15
D+4 - -2
B+1 - +1
B+1,2 - +2
B+2 - -1
F+3 - 0
F+3,2 - +2
F+4 - -5

All this was on the stickied frame data thread. Shoutouts to Somberness.
Wow 1,1,1 string is +8 on block? Why do I never see anybody use that