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Match-up Discussion Juicy VIII.c: My Final(ized) MU chart

TONY-T

TONY-T

Mad scientist
Imo Doomsday takes the Deathstroke matchup 6-4.

Doomsday can avoid Deathstrokes setups far easier then Deathstroke can avoid his. Wakeup MB venom avoids 90% of Deathstrokes setups and pressure alone. The pressure game is in doomsdays favor overall. Guns are almost useless against him too.

Deathstroke has to work much harder in this match imo.
 
@MylesWright_

@MylesWright_

I'll be back 3ing
I can't be bothered to go and find the thread where I was telling Doomsday players Killer Frost didn't win 7-3 whilst they told me everything gets parried, throws get teched on reaction, he gets nothing off d3 and he has no options
 
Warhungry

Warhungry

The earth shakes beneath my fists.
I agree with these numbers, though I haven't fought much Lobos or Flashes enough to agree with dat 3-7. I knew the Bane MU number would suck that bad, Bane Venom GG. Could've maybe included Sinestro only wins 6-4 when his trait is up, same with Bane. Kind of like a win condition that I think MU threads should include.
 
Tony at Home

Tony at Home

Master
Man, the standard for what constitutes a "bad wakeup" is so freaking skewed in Injustice.

I hope wakeups in MKX are really shit so it actually gets put in perspective here. And by "shit" I mean merely on par with other fighting games.

Like, if it's not
a) safe
b)meterless,
c) multi-hitting,

It's automatically considered a bad wakeup in Injustice for some reaosn..
 
Zoidberg747

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
Tony at Home said:
Man, the standard for what constitutes a "bad wakeup" is so freaking skewed in Injustice.

I hope wakeups in MKX are really shit so it actually gets put in perspective here. And by "shit" I mean merely on par with other fighting games.

Like, if it's not
a) safe
b)meterless,
c) multi-hitting,

It's automatically considered a bad wakeup in Injustice for some reaosn..
Click to expand...
It more has to do with lacking invincibility.

Also Batman's slide is a bad wakeup because you can punish it on hit lol
 
xInfra Deadx

xInfra Deadx

Gimmick stolen by Jordan Peele
Tony at Home said:
Man, the standard for what constitutes a "bad wakeup" is so freaking skewed in Injustice.

I hope wakeups in MKX are really shit so it actually gets put in perspective here. And by "shit" I mean merely on par with other fighting games.

Like, if it's not
a) safe
b)meterless,
c) multi-hitting,

It's automatically considered a bad wakeup in Injustice for some reaosn..
Click to expand...
Good luck with that.
 
Amplified$hotz

Amplified$hotz

I like Tekken 8
TONY-T said:
Imo Doomsday takes the Deathstroke matchup 6-4.

Doomsday can avoid Deathstrokes setups far easier then Deathstroke can avoid his. Wakeup MB venom avoids 90% of Deathstrokes setups and pressure alone. The pressure game is in doomsdays favor overall. Guns are almost useless against him too.

Deathstroke has to work much harder in this match imo.
Click to expand...
Can't u stuff all of his wakeups besides up venom?
 
Tony at Home

Tony at Home

Master
Zoidberg747 said:
It more has to do with lacking invincibility.

Also Batman's slide is a bad wakeup because you can punish it on hit lol
Click to expand...
Even a wakeup that lacks invincibility can be good if in order to take advantage of that the opponent must limit themselves to certain setups

Lex can safejump Green Lantern on knockdown such that he can't wakeup at all no matter what. It's still better off for Green Lantern because Lex sacrifices what would be MUUUUCH stronger setups if he could just pressure him free without having to safejump to avoid a possible wakeup.

It's like TJ combo in KI. Yeah, all his wakeups are 100% stuffable- but you still have to sacrifice some damage to go for good hard knockdown setups in order to consistently prevent those wakeups. So they are still saving him from damage, just by the other player wanting to avoid those wakeup options..

Like I said, there is such a bad misconception here about what constitutes a good/bad wakeup.
 
Zoidberg747

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
Tony at Home said:
Even a wakeup that lacks invincibility can be good if in order to take advantage of that the opponent must limit themselves to certain setups

Lex can safejump Green Lantern on knockdown such that he can't wakeup at all no matter what. It's still better off for Green Lantern because Lex sacrifices what would be MUUUUCH stronger setups if he could just pressure him free without having to safejump to avoid a possible wakeup.

It's like TJ combo in KI. Yeah, all his wakeups are 100% stuffable- but you still have to sacrifice some damage to go for good hard knockdown setups in order to consistently prevent those wakeups. So they are still saving him from damage, just by the other player wanting to avoid those wakeup options..

Like I said, there is such a bad misconception here about what constitutes a good/bad wakeup.
Click to expand...
The problem is there is some wakeups that are so good in this game(have all the things you mentioned) that they make other wakeups look bad by comparison. Raven's lift would be a good wakeup in another game, but since this game is filled with invincible wakeups that often lead to combos it isn't good by comparison.

You also have to consider the fact that most wakeups are good in this game because otherwise a lot of characters can basically get a free 50/50 on knockdowns(which is what happens against Raven :( ). If this game didn't have such powerful oki tools, having a non-invincible wakeup wouldnt be that big of a deal.
 
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