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General/Other Joker still sucks

C

chessmaster

Noob
I dont understand the point of this thread. There is nothing we can do about it. That was probably the last patch for this game so we're stuck with the game as it is. I think this is just another crying thread. If you guys say joker is trash then i believe you, but why cry about it? NRS doesnt care anymore. Their working on mk10 and injustice is finished as far as they are concerned after the ultimate or whatever edition.
 
OnlineRon91

OnlineRon91

Joker++
chessmaster said:
I dont understand the point of this thread. There is nothing we can do about it. That was probably the last patch for this game so we're stuck with the game as it is. I think this is just another crying thread. If you guys say joker is trash then i believe you, but why cry about it? NRS doesnt care anymore. Their working on mk10 and injustice is finished as far as they are concerned after the ultimate or whatever edition.
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This thread did serve a purpose though, it has convinced me and I hope others as well, that we haven't really explored Joker's momentum shifting options, or not nearly as much as his offense momentum is concerned.

What do I mean by that, well, we have collectively tackled nearly every facet of Joker's offense. His resets, teeth setups, footsies, otgs, the list goes on.

I think most Jokers would agree that once Joker has momentum, it is very, very hard for the opponent to stop it without giving up most of their health bar.

However, Joker's momentum needs to start somewhere, and that somewhere is usually very risky for Joker to make. I intend to make a thread later tonight that with everyone's help, could serve as a guideline to using momentum shifting options to help Joker start his momentum.
 
C

chessmaster

Noob
OnlineRon91 said:
This thread did serve a purpose though, it has convinced me and I hope others as well, that we haven't really explored Joker's momentum shifting options, or not nearly as much as his offense momentum is concerned.

What do I mean by that, well, we have collectively tackled nearly every facet of Joker's offense. His resets, teeth setups, footsies, otgs, the list goes on.

I think most Jokers would agree that once Joker has momentum, it is very, very hard for the opponent to stop it without giving up most of their health bar.

However, Joker's momentum needs to start somewhere, and that somewhere is usually very risky for Joker to make. I intend to make a thread later tonight that with everyone's help, could serve as a guideline to using momentum shifting options to help Joker start his momentum.
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I look forward to it. Instead of complaining about how bad joker is, why dont you guys post something useful.
 
StevoSuprem0

StevoSuprem0

I'm gonna make this skill gap... disappear.
OnlineRon91 said:
This thread did serve a purpose though, it has convinced me and I hope others as well, that we haven't really explored Joker's momentum shifting options, or not nearly as much as his offense momentum is concerned.

What do I mean by that, well, we have collectively tackled nearly every facet of Joker's offense. His resets, teeth setups, footsies, otgs, the list goes on.

I think most Jokers would agree that once Joker has momentum, it is very, very hard for the opponent to stop it without giving up most of their health bar.

However, Joker's momentum needs to start somewhere, and that somewhere is usually very risky for Joker to make. I intend to make a thread later tonight that with everyone's help, could serve as a guideline to using momentum shifting options to help Joker start his momentum.
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Lookin' forward to it :)
I think all that's really left to do with him is push all the matchup knowledge further. IMO, his performance is alot more dependent on how well you know the matchups than most characters. Maybe there is some other magic dirty crap out there with him, but I kinda doubt it. We've found alot of stuff over the past few months. Just need to figure out how everything fits in each matchup.
 
OnlineRon91

OnlineRon91

Joker++
chessmaster said:
I look forward to it. Instead of complaining about how bad joker is, why dont you guys post something useful.
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Ouch :(

Our offensive options have been borderline exhausted in terms of discoverability.

The thread I am planning to start will hopefully help us use those options more frequently, that's all.
 
Axel_Redd

Axel_Redd

Vampire Jesus....he wants YOUR blood now!!
Qwark28 said:
So, I've been reviewing some of Joker's matchups and overal options, play with great players and breaking down matchups. Truth be told, Joker still has extremely shitty matchups because he can't open people up.

Let's take a look

Flash - 7 3
Cyborg - potential 7 3
MMH - potential 7 3
Aquaman - 7 3
Green Lantern - 7 3
Sinestro - 7 3
Doomsday - 7 3

and most of the cast beats him 6-4 with a small portion going even.

I feel NRS does not know what this character needs. We specifically told you we need a way to open people up. I'm sorry, but crowbar and sweep are not ways to open people up. Not when they give you almost nothing midscreen. We kept saying for MONTHS and MONTHS about how parry was a lost cause and you chose to heed the one person who said parry needed buffs ( no offense to him and I'm not mentioning his name ) instead of the Joker community and to add insult to injury, you didn't even fix our whiffing mids... We still get full combo punished for using strings on people like deathstroke. Use 212 on deathstroke and enjoy a full blown combo.

Crowbar helped his game, it really did. But not in the matchups where it counts. Your buffs also made matchups harder for Joker as well. We have some matchups that are now 5-5 thank to our buffs but also some where we lose due to the other char's buffs.

You gave us NO ways to deal with our bad matchups. How are we supposed to get in? How are we supposed to defend ourselves up close or far away with sub-par normals and a useless in most matchups gunshot?

How do we get in on Sinestro? How do we deal with GL keeping us out and chipping us, only to get in and have our toes be crushed by B13 and being put in a 50-50 SAFE vortex?

I have played vs several people that are considered the best in those matchups I listed as 7-3 save for a few, I've also played A LOT of other people who have different playstyles, these matchups are bad. They have to be played extremely carefully while Joker having no real threat other than in the corner... In a game with ridiculously zoomed out screens, zoning that is dealt with easily like in MK9 by characters WHO ACTUALLY HAVE THE TOOLS TO DO SO and HUGE ASS MAPS.

When is Joker gonna corner Nightwing? MMH? Lantern who switches sides all day? How about Sinestro who only needs one trait shot into a throw to make you chase him all over again?

In theory, Joker can do alot of shit. In practice though, and with the stupid character designs in this game, Joker is still bottom. Low mid. Bottom might have become low mid but it does not change the fact this character can NOT compete.

Can you imagine what will happen when people actually learn to fight Joker? Disregarding our current problems, what happens when people learn the matchup?
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out of curiousity u mentioned that lanturn can do a 50/50 safe vortex....what is it exactly?
 
Konqrr

Konqrr

MK11 Kabal = MK9 Kitana
Mid-hitting gunshot? gtfo

More active frames on parry is all he needs... not as many as he had with hand buzzer in mkdc, but more.
 
OnlineRon91

OnlineRon91

Joker++
Konqrr said:
Mid-hitting gunshot? gtfo

More active frames on parry is all he needs... not as many as he had with hand buzzer in mkdc, but more.
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Wrong. Gunshot should be able to hit low when you press down. The shot should ricochet from the ground and hit airborne opponents while also hitting low before the ricochet happens so that it causes a ground bounce.

On block, the shot from regular Gunshot should explode into Chattering Teeth.
 
RM Truth

RM Truth

Unintentional Tier Whore Follow me @TruthRM
OnlineRon91 said:
Wrong. Gunshot should be able to hit low when you press down. The shot should ricochet from the ground and hit airborne opponent's while also hitting low before the ricochet happens so that it causes a ground bounce.

On block, the shot from regular Gunshot should explode into Chattering Teeth.
Click to expand...

 
The PantyChrist

The PantyChrist

Rest in Pantiez
This thread is silly, Joker is now the best he's ever been, he may have his uphill battles but I really don't think he should be called the worst in the game
 
miloPKL

miloPKL

soundcloud.com/pukelization
i think 90% of us agree he is bottom 10. thats a big window. where in the bottom 5/10 doesnt really matter.
 
Konqrr

Konqrr

MK11 Kabal = MK9 Kitana
Qwark28 said:
Please explain how that would help with his zoning and mobility problem.
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He's not meant to get in easy... like Shazam, you have to get in and make it count.

If Joker could get in easy then he'd be stupid as hell. He has "better-than-batman" jumping attacks and corner infinites.

Use gunshot to stop/trade with projectile spam and get projectile advantage, that lets you set things up or dash in.
 
StevoSuprem0

StevoSuprem0

I'm gonna make this skill gap... disappear.
Konqrr said:
He's not meant to get in easy... like Shazam, you have to get in and make it count.

If Joker could get in easy then he'd be stupid as hell. He has "better-than-batman" jumping attacks and corner infinites.

Use gunshot to stop/trade with projectile spam and get projectile advantage, that lets you set things up or dash in.
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He does not have corner infinites. Everything is blockable, similar to DD's Earthshaker.
The problem with trying to trade with many projectiles is the animation of a lot of characters causes Joker's gun to whiff (his is the only projectile that functions this way; no other high projectile has this issue).
 
Qwark28

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Konqrr said:
He's not meant to get in easy... like Shazam, you have to get in and make it count.

If Joker could get in easy then he'd be stupid as hell. He has "better-than-batman" jumping attacks and corner infinites.

Use gunshot to stop/trade with projectile spam and get projectile advantage, that lets you set things up or dash in.
Click to expand...
gunshot has the smallest hit advantage on hit i believe, it does not set up nothing

shazam has a great dash and a teleport, which joker lacks

so many people say bottom 10 or 5 and try to explain to joker players how to play as if we dont know how to use our character or as if winning no matchups doesnt mean low tier.
 
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