Match-up Discussion JimmyPotato Arrow Pre "Big Patch" Match Chart

[Jimmypotato]

Pre Big Patch Aug 29th- Follow up post below.

Aquaman 3-7
Ares 5-5
Bane 4-6
Batgirl 4-6
Batman 3-7
Black Adam 3-7
Catwoman 6-4
Cyborg 5-5
Deathstroke 5-5
Doomsday 5-5
Flash 5-5
GreenLantern 5-5
HarleyQuinn 4-6
HawkGirl 5-5
Joker 6-4
KillerFrost 4-6
LexLuthor 3-7
Lobo 6-4
MartianMan 4-6
NightDick 4-6
Raven 4-6
Scorpion 5-5
Shazam 6-4
Sinestro 4-6
Grundy 4-6
Superman 3-7
WWoman 4-6
Zatanna 6-4
Zod 4-6

Shitty Match ups - 5 (3-7)
Kinda Shitty - 11 (4-6)
Even - 8 (5-5)
Advantage - 5 (6-4)

 

[Jimmypotato]

Here are what I think are accurate Match up numbers for Green Arrow as of Aug 29th 2013. I've literally only played this one character in matches. Yes I have labbed other characters to learn what they do, but In any matches I have only used Arrow, I have put a shit load of time into him.

Call me a down player or whatever you want, I've been playing him since week 2 (4months). I base these on Offline and online matches as well as tourny matches. Non of these numbers are based on playing Randoms in Ranked or people that have no idea what Arrow can do. I also factor in Tools and damage on paper.

Blow me up if you want, but unless we get something in the new patch or before they are done patching then these are what they are, and people will start seeing it soon enough, maybe by Christmas with the speed this community levels up

This is a character that needed his inescapable resets just to compete damage wise with most of the cast, but they took almost all of them away. This is a character that has swag combos but they do less damage then the super easy ones. This is a character that was raped before he had the chance to actually blossom into a contender.

I am done with Arrow for now, while he is a good character, he is not good enough to compete in this game in his current form. (I don't think his Low Arrow ducking projectiles buff coming will change these numbers much if at all), Good night Sweet Arrow, Potato Loved you like a Brother, you will be missed.

 

[FrozenG3oX]

"because I'm suck" ? whaaat ?

 

[Jimmypotato]

"because I'm suck" ? whaaat ?

lol, fuckin typo, can't fix it MOD!!!! HELP ME!!! I"M SUCK AT TYPING!!

 

[Red Reaper]

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on some of those match ups but here are the ones I particularly disagree with.

Don't think he loses to Harley.

Doomsday match up is even. SonicBoomBrad thinks it's in Doomsday's favor.

Catwoman I'd say is 5-5 because her wake ups outside of trait are stuffable, Arrow's D1 is long range, and you kan load arrows freely.

I also think Hawkgirl is 5-5 at least but I don't have that much experience.

Lex might be 5-5 too. Again, not much experience.

 

[FrozenG3oX]

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on some of those match ups but here are the ones I particularly disagree with.

Don't think he loses to Harley.

Doomsday match up is even. SonicBoomBrad thinks it's in Doomsday's favor.

Catwoman I'd say is 5-5 because her wake ups outside of trait are stuffable, Arrow's D1 is long range, and you kan load arrows freely.

I also think Hawkgirl is 5-5 at least but I don't have that much experience.

Lex might be 5-5 too. Again, not much experience.

I actually agree on the Hawkgirl match up cuz he can arrow her ass down from the top of the screen.

 

[SonicBoomBrad]

Did you put Doomsday as 6-4 in your favor?

 

[Red Reaper]

I actually agree on the Hawkgirl match up cuz he can arrow her ass down from the top of the screen.

Flying isn't everything she has.. Right Espio ?

 

[Red Reaper]

Did you put Doomsday as 6-4 in your favor?

He did, that's why I tagged you.. lol.

 

[ShadowBeatz]

Lex might be 5-5 too. Again, not much experience.

Nah, I think 6-4 is a good number. Trait armor messes Arrow up big time

 

[Jimmypotato]

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on some of those match ups but here are the ones I particularly disagree with.

Don't think he loses to Harley.

Doomsday match up is even. SonicBoomBrad thinks it's in Doomsday's favor.

Catwoman I'd say is 5-5 because her wake ups outside of trait are stuffable, Arrow's D1 is long range, and you kan load arrows freely.

I also think Hawkgirl is 5-5 at least but I don't have that much experience.

Lex might be 5-5 too. Again, not much experience.

Harley is the one I think could change if low arrow ducks, that bitch can lock you down and has superior air control in the match. Arrows 7 frame down1 also can't interups some of her shit like others with 6frame ones can. Also she just has to bop you one time for one bar and get 50% damage.

until someone proves me wrong I think we beat catwoman, because it's easy to run from her and she has to take risks to get in and get her shit going which we have options against

Doomsday beats us 6-4 online easy, but offline if you know how to block his shit you can control the match because you can actually react to the shit going down, and d1~arrow repeated to the frame fucks his armor up.

Hawkgirl might be 5-5,

 

[Jimmypotato]

Did you put Doomsday as 6-4 in your favor?

yes

 

[AK Black Preon]

lol, fuckin typo, can't fix it MOD!!!! HELP ME!!! I"M SUCK AT TYPING!!

Can't even type your own typo right... what is this

I"M SUCK AT TYPING!!

I(")M

So you quote M Suck at typing huh? GG. As for the MU chart I agree except for the Raven MU. I don't see how you don't see that as being worse than 4-6.

 

[SonicBoomBrad]

Doomsday beats us 6-4 online easy, but offline if you know how to block his shit you can control the match because you can actually react to the shit going down, and d1~arrow repeated to the frame fucks his armor up.

You don't win offline either. It's still 6-4. Being able to block my ES doesn't really matter because I can mix up between d1 es, raw es and overhead es. All of those have slightly different timing, and are very hard to block consistently. If for some reason you do I always have throws. When knocked down, all of GA's options are very easy to read and punish. Not to mention it's really bad for you once I get you in the corner. You really don't have anything that can contest my venom, so I get a free frame trap every time you block one, almost like superman f23, but it costs me a bar. And it's very easy for me to carry momentum against you because you don't really have any normals that can contest me besides d1. That being said you can play an offensive game very well against me, specially with super. But I don't think the risk of having to rush me down is worth the reward I gain from reversing the momentum on you. And even after all of this, I don't have to respect anything you're doing if I have trait on as long as I stay outside of your d1 range, which is much shorter than mine. My damage output is also higher than yours believe it or not. Like I said it's definitely winnable for you, but you'd have to make way more reads than I would, which is why I call it a 6-4. Hopefully that was a coherent enough response for you, it's like 4am and I just got back from WNF, but I figured I'd type this out before I went to bed.

EDIT: by 6-4 I meant 6-4 in Doomsday's favor.

Double Edit: You don't have to agree with anything I said, match ups are opinions. That's just my point of view.

 

[Jimmypotato]

Can't even type your own typo right... what is this



I(")M

So you quote M Suck at typing huh? GG. As for the MU chart I agree except for the Raven MU. I don't see how you don't see that as being worse than 4-6.

lol,

I don't see it being worse because when you do get in you can lock her down a bit because of her not super great wake up game and the ability to stuff most of them. Most Ravens will make you work for everything you get in the match though, it could be worse.

 

[Alien Substance]

lol, fuckin typo, can't fix it MOD!!!! HELP ME!!! I"M SUCK AT TYPING!!

'Kay. Fixed your typos.

By the way, I think 4-6 MUs are supposed to be "slight disadvantage", not "kind of shitty".

Spoiler: Match-up number names, I believe

10-0 What the fuck?
9-1 Balance, pls.
8-2 Huge advantage.
7-3 Clear advantage.
6-4 Slight advantage.
5-5 Relatively even.
4-6 Slight disadvantage.
3-7 Clear disadvantage.
2-8 Huge disadvantage.
1-9 Holy imbalanced shit, Batman.
0-10 Where is your god now?

Sorry. I cannot contribute anything worthwhile to the discussion, for I don't play Green Arrow and have insufficient experience playing against him.

 

[AK Black Preon]

lol,

I don't see it being worse because when you do get in you can lock her down a bit because of her not super great wake up game and the ability to stuff most of them. Most Ravens will make you work for everything you get in the match though, it could be worse.

I think its worse because no Raven simply lets you just Waltz in and yes you can blow them up on their wake ups but its much easier for them to get out than it is for the GA to get in given my limited GA experience.

 

[Red Reaper]

Harley is the one I think could change if low arrow ducks, that bitch can lock you down and has superior air control in the match. Arrows 7 frame down1 also can't interups some of her shit like others with 6frame ones can. Also she just has to bop you one time for one bar and get 50% damage.

until someone proves me wrong I think we beat catwoman, because it's easy to run from her and she has to take risks to get in and get her shit going which we have options against

Doomsday beats us 6-4 online easy, but offline if you know how to block his shit you can control the match because you can actually react to the shit going down, and d1~arrow repeated to the frame fucks his armor up.

Hawkgirl might be 5-5,

She doesn't really lock him down. It's pretty easy to get in on her. Once you're in it's also not that hard to block low and then react to the slow overhead.

I misinterpreted your Catwoman numbers. I thought you meant 4-6... Catwoman has anti-wake ups and high unclashable damage. Her J2 is pretty long range and her F1 reaches far for a footsie tool (plus it's an overhead). Her 50/50's are really good and once she kounter pokes you for doing D1, she's +1 and kan either frame trap you with a safe D1~Cat Claws for a launcher or 50/50 you. She kan also turtle Arrow out by Meowing your arrows, making you waste your loads. Then once you try to get in, she kan whip you to launch you back. Get aggressive at the wrong time and you kan eat a jump back 2 into a full kombo. This is one of the match ups I've played a lot against Krayzie that's why I know it so well. I originally thought you put 4-6 because a lot of people here in So Cal overrate her a bit thanx to Krayzie. Everywhere else she's underrated.

Oh, and I don't think he beats Zatanna. I would leave it 5-5 until it's fully explored.

 

[Red Reaper]

'Kay. Fixed your typos.

By the way, I think 4-6 MUs are supposed to be "slight disadvantage", not "kind of shitty".

Spoiler: Match-up number names, I believe

10-0 What the fuck?
9-1 Balance, pls.
8-2 Huge advantage.
7-3 Clear advantage.
6-4 Slight advantage.
5-5 Relatively even.
4-6 Slight disadvantage.
3-7 Clear disadvantage.
2-8 Huge disadvantage.
1-9 Holy imbalanced shit, Batman.
0-10 Where is your god now?

Sorry, I cannot contribute anything worthwhile to the discussion, for I don't play Green Arrow and have insufficient experience playing against him.

In that kase. Nightwing is a 3-7...

 

[Jimmypotato]

You don't win offline either. It's still 6-4. Being able to block my ES doesn't really matter because I can mix up between d1 es, raw es and overhead es. All of those have slightly different timing, and re very hard to block consistently. If for some reason you do I always have throws. When knocked down, all of GA's options are very easy to read and punish. Not to mention it's really bad for you once I get you in the corner. You really don't have anything that can contest me venom, so I get a free frame trap every time you block one, almost like superman f23, but it costs me a bar. And it's very easy for me to carry momentum against you because you don't really have any normals that can contest me besides d1. That being said you can play an offensive game very well against me, specially with super. But I don't think the risk of having to rush me down is worth the reward I gain from reversing the momentum on you. And even after all of this, I don't have to respect anything you're doing if I have trait on as long as I stay outside of your d1 range, which is much shorter than mine. My damage output is also higher than yours believe it or not. Like I said it's definitely winnable for you, but you'd have to make way more reads than I would, which is why I call it a 6-4. Hopefully that was a coherent enough response for you, it's like 4am and I just got back from WNF, but I figured I'd type this out before I went to bed.

EDIT: by 6-4 I meant 6-4 in Doomsday's favor.

great response,

I don't believe DD can really mix anything up because he doesn't have a low starter to anything, so I just have to block back and react.

I don't count throws as a mix up option that effects the match up because they can be teched.

You have to burn meter to make your venom safe,

the corner is truth, but there are ways out, and it really depends on the level.

maybe it's Even, but I have ran this match a fuck ton offline with 2 different competent players I deem to be on my skill level. I still think Doomsday players get away with a ton. But that could just be me, I stand by this number.

PS, everyone out damages Arrow lol

Thanks for your response,

 

[Jimmypotato]

I think its worse because no Raven simply lets you just Waltz in and yes you can blow them up on their wake ups but its much easier for them to get out than it is for the GA to get it given my limited GA experience.

the one thing that kinda saves Arrow a bit is his great forward dash, he gains alotta space after a block gravity squeeze.

 

[LEGEND]

She doesn't really lock him down. It's pretty easy to get in on her. Once you're in it's also not that hard to block low and then react to the slow overhead.

Its her instant air Gunshots that are the problem, that and when you are in range for a string you have to watch out for her B2 as well. Plus she has good options for dealing with GA's jump ins

Harley's Grounded overheads are never a problem. The mix-ups always come from wiffed poke set-ups and the air gunshots

 

[Jimmypotato]

In that kase. Nightwing is a 3-7...

Staffmode Nightwing vs Arrow is 3-7 fo sho

 

[Jimmypotato]

Its her instant air Gunshots that are the problem, that and when you are in range for a string you have to watch out for her B2 as well. Plus she has good options for dealing with GA's jump ins

Harley's Grounded overheads are never a problem. The mix-ups always come from wiffed poke set-ups and the air gunshots

yes, this is what i was gonna say, her air gunshots, she dominates anything in the air in this match up, and it gives her free jump ins as well.

 

[Red Reaper]

Its her instant air Gunshots that are the problem, that and when you are in range for a string you have to watch out for her B2 as well. Plus she has good options for dealing with GA's jump ins

Harley's Grounded overheads are never a problem. The mix-ups always come from wiffed poke set-ups and the air gunshots

Gunshots are low reward. Eventually she'll get read and hit on an air to air and lose. It's not hard to block so Arrow kan more than make up the damage he lost on chip. J3 also has ridiculous range and her shitty AA is not going to get that.

Green Arrow doesn't primarily rely on his strings. He relies on his D1 which is long range. Wiff punishing only works if he actually wiffs which with long range and mix ups off of D1, there's not much reason to fail.