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jax's F413 frame advantage bug

kandehbar

The Gryphon
NERF JAX!!
You know jax needs a nerf when THE Jax player agrees.

NRS we know your trying hard and we appreciate your effort, but try to catch these bugs before it happens
I think its something with the input sytem of this game, you know like how you can press 2 and if you in put directions quickly after you can get a smoke bomb? It works with every special
 

Prinz

watch?v=a8PEVV6tt14
if it was frame advantage he would have it all the time. It has to be a bug since he was able to do it in the corner over and over without restarting the match.
Ok. So it could be a general bug? I mean, could other strings have the same effect? I still don't get it, the block animation stands still, how is it a Jax f41 string bug? And I still remain to the idea that replaying in training mode is worthless.
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
No idea whether it's a general bug, Prinz. But I've tested it with 2 controllers. The opponent will randomly stay in crouch block even if you let everything go for like way after the whole string is blocked. For whatever reason it locks up the character. So it's not a replay thing causing problems.

Why are there problems like this in this game...? Shit is irritating.
 

Trini_Bwoi

Kombatant
This shit probably happens with Kung Lao's low hat which made it hard to poke after pre-patch. I know for a fact it happens with Noob's low slide but that thing is unsafe enough so it doesn't make a difference. I think it's a general crouch blocking problem.
 
NRS, whyyyyyyyyyyyyy. Was this pre patch also? I wonder if NRS actually test the patch version of the games, I say they let reo and brady test the game fulltime.
 

Sao87

@thedigitaldojo
Almost every move in this game that has a knee involved has frame advantage.

There is a window between the 1 and the 3 of the 4,1,3 string where armored moves will beat Jax every single time.

Mid screen you can jump out after Jax presses D1.

The biggest issue with this string is once you get cornered it can be very difficult for characters to win the round if Jax is on point. The argument for Jax has always been he needs his corner game because he is so weak mid screen (I disagree since almost every special he has sets him up for a ground pound/cancel mind game). This is something that has been known for a while and makes his pressure game stronger IF he corners you AND you don't have an armored move to escape.

The more people get better at the game the more they understand how important positioning is. If NRS does remove the advantage on his 413 string I think they will be removing something that is very important to his pressure game, that being said every character needs an option to escape shit like this. It is really frustrating that there are characters in this game that win matches at the character select screen.

TLDR: Mid screen this is ok, in the corner this is unacceptable because a small portion of the cast can not escape.
 

Prinz

watch?v=a8PEVV6tt14
No idea whether it's a general bug, Prinz. But I've tested it with 2 controllers. The opponent will randomly stay in crouch block even if you let everything go for like way after the whole string is blocked. For whatever reason it locks up the character. So it's not a replay thing causing problems.

Why are there problems like this in this game...? Shit is irritating.
Ok. Sooo... where's the fucking rabbit?
 

CD jr

Kombatant
i agree this has to be fixed.but dont think this is easy to pull of i barely use it because the timing is strict,im talking about doing f413 right after a f413,i just do d1 after f413 to keep you on check.also cyrax gets to have a 75% with one meter so why can jax have this?raiden has a brainless move that gets him out of any situation without waisting meter and is 95% unpunishable.kabal has a projectile that starts a 0 frames 0 FUCKING FRAMES!! and has an instant fireball that makes it almost impossible to get close to him without taking chances.and i can keep saying alot stuff that is ''cheap'' in this game or ''broken'' but i wont.so please dont start complaining about this and just go with it cause by us complaining we dont solve anything.
 
Man this game, smh. Very nice explanation Riu. Ive been hearing bits and pieces about this from, Maxter and CD jr. According to Maxter, in the corner against big hitbox characters(like subby) this is a block infinite. Tom brady also told me this. This is the kind of shit that makes me want to quit this game.

Can you confirm this? Is it a block infinite in the corner on large characters?
I used to think Tom was going alittle to far when he would go on his rants about how this game was all messed up. I thought that because the game was new and the developers kept putting out patches to fix broken stuff. But at this point I'm starting to believe when Aris stated that NRS didn't have the capability to fix this game. I know that us tournament players are picky, but its cuz we don't want to lose to anything other than our opponents skill and not some bug or glitch. This is the reason alot of the players from the other fighting game community have quit this game. Most of my friends who play other fighting games gave mk9 a try and liked it, but it was stuff like this that made them lose interest in the game and i was sad to see my friends drop the game cuz of that. I really hope NRS can find some way to fix this game or make sure mk10 doesn't have the same problems that most mk games have had in the past.
 

CD jr

Kombatant
I used to think Tom was going alittle to far when he would go on his rants about how this game was all messed up. I thought that because the game was new and the developers kept putting out patches to fix broken stuff. But at this point I'm starting to believe when Aris stated that NRS didn't have the capability to fix this game. I know that us tournament players are picky, but its cuz we don't want to lose to anything other than our opponents skill and not some bug or glitch. This is the reason alot of the players from the other fighting game community have quit this game. Most of my friends who play other fighting games gave mk9 a try and liked it, but it was stuff like this that made them lose interest in the game and i was sad to see my friends drop the game cuz of that. I really hope NRS can find some way to fix this game or make sure mk10 doesn't have the same problems that most mk games have had in the past.
if by the time street fighter x tekken is out and this game is not fixed i might quit.as much as i love this game way more than any other fighter out right now i cant put up with this shit and what gets me really angry is that the input bug and other bugs are happening alot more after the patch
 

Maxter

Kombatant
i agree this has to be fixed.but dont think this is easy to pull of i barely use it because the timing is strict,im talking about doing f413 right after a f413,i just do d1 after f413 to keep you on check.also cyrax gets to have a 75% with one meter so why can jax have this?raiden has a brainless move that gets him out of any situation without waisting meter and is 95% unpunishable.kabal has a projectile that starts a 0 frames 0 FUCKING FRAMES!! and has an instant fireball that makes it almost impossible to get close to him without taking chances.and i can keep saying alot stuff that is ''cheap'' in this game or ''broken'' but i wont.so please dont start complaining about this and just go with it cause by us complaining we dont solve anything.
cyrax damage combos have always existed and i agree they must be fixed without breaking the character, raiden evasion on teleport is his game and character, kabal is a little unfair with instant air fireballs against most of the cast but its not broken, lots of characters have a little dirty trick to do on this game, but you cant defend a block infinite whcich forces you to release block because this string can be repeated over and over. Everytime you get subzero, noob saibot, striker, etc. in the corner its game over, and you know very well we have tested this and there is not way to get out of it in the corner even tho riu48 is proving its a bug i believe in the corner is 100% because you always stuff you knee on my face and cant even do an armor move. high damage combos requires your opponent to catch you without meters so its not broken it, do you think its fair you get someone blocking or unblocking in the corner and that person must die, because jax can 100% with 2 meters with his reset or this block infinite? and most of his opponents end up in the corner because they are afraid of doing projectiles cause of ridiculous armor on ex dash, we discussed this many time home and this is something people should know, kabal block infinite was removed, sonya block infinite was removed and idk who else, so jax should keep his you say? you know you can pull this off with your eyes close and you abuse it many times, sorry brother but stop acting like a retard defending a block infinite jax dont need that, disadvantage on block strings against you: you get damaged, you don't build meter while getting damaged, your opponent builds meter while you get damaged, this is the logic why you cant have block infinites
 

Prinz

watch?v=a8PEVV6tt14
I used to think Tom was going alittle to far when he would go on his rants about how this game was all messed up. I thought that because the game was new and the developers kept putting out patches to fix broken stuff. But at this point I'm starting to believe when Aris stated that NRS didn't have the capability to fix this game. I know that us tournament players are picky, but its cuz we don't want to lose to anything other than our opponents skill and not some bug or glitch. This is the reason alot of the players from the other fighting game community have quit this game. Most of my friends who play other fighting games gave mk9 a try and liked it, but it was stuff like this that made them lose interest in the game and i was sad to see my friends drop the game cuz of that. I really hope NRS can find some way to fix this game or make sure mk10 doesn't have the same problems that most mk games have had in the past.
I never played Street Fighter, but I hear a lot that SF is a fucking joke because it's the same since '90's. But I guess this is why it's less buggy, or Tekken for that matter, still the same, but better. If this is the case, than it's really a good start for Mortal Kombat with MK9. This game is awesome, regardless of its multiple bugs, it's beautiful, has an awesome story, every character is a CHARACTER, not a rip-off (this may be the reason I suffer a bit cause I like Jade and I'm joyous at the same time cause there's no one like her). Imagine the next MK's (10, 11, maybe twelve) being a perfection of MK9. I think it sounds awesome!
 

A F0xy Grampa

Problem X Promotions
While obviously these kind of things are stupid and shouldnt be here, at least we know that nobody has won a tournament by abusing bugs yet have they? (Correct me if I'm wrong) That should at least show that these things aren't 100% game breaking.

No Cyrax has won using bomb traps/resets
No Kabal/Sonya/Sindel won untill after the infinite was patched/won with the infinite
No Jax has won with random advantage off of F413
No Reptile has won by laying out a random invisible forceball

The game cant be that broken if the most broken aspects of it arent capable of winning tournaments. It just needs a few more tweaks here and there and its all good. (Before anybody says anything I'm not trying to justify the bugs/glitches because just like anybody else, if I lose I want to be outplayed rather than bullshitted.)
 
if by the time street fighter x tekken is out and this game is not fixed i might quit.as much as i love this game way more than any other fighter out right now i cant put up with this shit and what gets me really angry is that the input bug and other bugs are happening alot more after the patch
Thats exactly what I was thinking. Most of my friends dropped this game already, some times when I get together with them for casuals or see them @ the arcade, I feel a little embarrassed when they ask me if I'm still playing the game. I feel like when Street Fighter X Tekken comes out, I might have to give this game a rest for awhile. The scene here in socal is dying for this game and I try my best to keep it alive, but unless they fix the stuff thats wrong with this game like balancing ,bugs,reset,glitches ext... Then I doubt anyone around here will come back to it.
 
While obviously these kind of things are stupid and shouldnt be here, at least we know that nobody has won a tournament by abusing bugs yet have they? (Correct me if I'm wrong) That should at least show that these things aren't 100% game breaking.

No Cyrax has won using bomb traps/resets
No Kabal/Sonya/Sindel won untill after the infinite was patched/won with the infinite
No Jax has won with random advantage off of F413
No Reptile has won by laying out a random invisible forceball

The game cant be that broken if the most broken aspects of it arent capable of winning tournaments. It just needs a few more tweaks here and there and its all good. (Before anybody says anything I'm not trying to justify the bugs/glitches because just like anybody else, if I lose I want to be outplayed rather than bullshitted.)
Just cuz tournament weren't won entirely with glitches and resets doesn't mean that they were not used during some matches.
 

Ashenar

Just a slightly above average player.....
tbh Cyrax is one tournament win away with using resets to cause total chaos on these boards.
honestly I don't mind the reset one bit at this point if the guy can pull it off during a tournament match
and I get caught napping with no meter I should just eat the whole thing.
 

Bildslash

Goro Lives 
For what is worth:

Whenever I've hit the lab to check how (un)safe or advantegeous a move is using the way Riu showed this stuff about Jax (i.e. both characters jumping) I've seen many times this scenario of moves randomly having more advantage than usual with other characters as well!!!

I guess this truly signals the game is really bugged as hell. But hey... it wouldn't be MK if it wasn't, right? Right?!
 

CY MasterHavik

Master of Chaos and Jax
We like to overreact to a lot of shit. People do the same thing to SF and Marvel. But I hate to say guys...I think we should just deal with it. Why? Because we're acting like NRS knows all this shit already. Remember folks these guys spend years trying to make a fun for everyone. This new approach to their product is new to them and I think we have been a little bit unfair. How do you expect them to know shit like this with only a couple of months of experience with this type of game. You can see(from the in house tournament) only a few guys at NRS have gotten on broad with this new idea. The rest are either getting use to it or trying to gasp why this is a good way for them. What should we do to help? Well...guiding them and teaching them shit that they may not know helps. But I think it's not helpful to drop their game, call them idiots, and etc. I mean we're trying to build a new face for MK. It's not about mashing buttons and remembering Fatalities so you can own your friends. This whole idea of competitive fighting game is new to us. If we want our own majors and get rid of all the bad history MK is known for. This how you do it. You gotta stick it out and fight through the good and bad. Another thing we have to understand is that are game isn't perfect. No fighting game is perfect. So we have to stop acting like that. I mean if we fix the input bug( which is a huge problem) then we will bitch about Kabal being too good. Our list of bitching will go on and on and on. It will never end.
 

xxteefxx

Kenshi Moderator
We like to overreact to a lot of shit. People do the same thing to SF and Marvel. But I hate to say guys...I think we should just deal with it. Why? Because we're acting like NRS knows all this shit already. Remember folks these guys spend years trying to make a fun for everyone. This new approach to their product is new to them and I think we have been a little bit unfair. How do you expect them to know shit like this with only a couple of months of experience with this type of game. You can see(from the in house tournament) only a few guys at NRS have gotten on broad with this new idea. The rest are either getting use to it or trying to gasp why this is a good way for them. What should we do to help? Well...guiding them and teaching them shit that they may not know helps. But I think it's not helpful to drop their game, call them idiots, and etc. I mean we're trying to build a new face for MK. It's not about mashing buttons and remembering Fatalities so you can own your friends. This whole idea of competitive fighting game is new to us. If we want our own majors and get rid of all the bad history MK is known for. This how you do it. You gotta stick it out and fight through the good and bad. Another thing we have to understand is that are game isn't perfect. No fighting game is perfect. So we have to stop acting like that. I mean if we fix the input bug( which is a huge problem) then we will bitch about Kabal being too good. Our list of bitching will go on and on and on. It will never end.

hmm i like what you wrote man, but i have to dis agree on multiple things.

first off, This whole idea of competitive fighting game is new to us? ...who are us exactly? new generation possible?
fighting game competition been alive since 1993 if not even before.... through out time it's getting bigger and bigger. fighting game scene never been old, period. it might seem new to you because u just didnt get the correct connections....or that, lately, it's so easy now to get competition in any game due to the recent technology that ease findings and spread the words bout it. that doesnt mean fighting games, always been competitive, as well as known.

secondly. This how you do it. You gotta stick it out and fight through the good and bad. Another thing we have to understand is that are game isn't perfect.

this is half correct half not. In tekken, there are Legal player who are not aloud to play in tournaments. these players are meant to work with namco to perfect the game into its highest level of accuracy as much as possible. those players, some of them, been there since tekken 3
not only tekken, a LOT of other games. Guilty gear has over 7 different games just because of patching and perfecting. back in the days, it was hard for players to spread the word that there are bugs, broken content, or whatever the case. hence, they worked there ASS off to release a complete whole new game, with always extra and new content inside the game. that means that the developers in constant work and progression (and by god, gg is 2d :S...do you know how hard this can be?)...and so forth
lately, due to the recent technology of patches, developers has an easier way to fix those inner content....so no need to be slackin time off and not do a good job at it!
players used to wait for as long as a whole year , just for some simple arcade patches or even a complete new cd upgrade on your ps2....and sometimes , they dont even have the chance.
a game company like SNK, they didnt fear whether the game might be broken or not, cause every year/or two they released a TOTAL new game to fix the previous mistakes, as will as put new content in each game for future fun development (example: kof 96, 97,98,99,2000,2001...etc)...do you know how time consuming this is? again...this is a 2d game. and back when there was no way to release patches , unless it's a complete new Board!


part of this, is lack in development, and not being aware of choosing the correct contractors for testing and in game development. so ofcourse, part of it, i would blame NRS for such a job.

though, i think NRS can learn from such game...i mean, if they decided to do mk10...then i bet they will do amazing job! especially that mk9 is new in its MK approach. that, is what i will agree on :) for sure it will be more accurate and perfected
 

CY MasterHavik

Master of Chaos and Jax
hmm i like what you wrote man, but i have to dis agree on multiple things.

first off, This whole idea of competitive fighting game is new to us? ...who are us exactly? new generation possible?
fighting game competition been alive since 1993 if not even before.... through out time it's getting bigger and bigger. fighting game scene never been old, period. it might seem new to you because u just didnt get the correct connections....or that, lately, it's so easy now to get competition in any game due to the recent technology that ease findings and spread the words bout it. that doesnt mean fighting games, always been competitive, as well as known.

secondly. This how you do it. You gotta stick it out and fight through the good and bad. Another thing we have to understand is that are game isn't perfect.

this is half correct half not. In tekken, there are Legal player who are not aloud to play in tournaments. these players are meant to work with namco to perfect the game into its highest level of accuracy as much as possible. those players, some of them, been there since tekken 3
not only tekken, a LOT of other games. Guilty gear has over 7 different games just because of patching and perfecting. back in the days, it was hard for players to spread the word that there are bugs, broken content, or whatever the case. hence, they worked there ASS off to release a complete whole new game, with always extra and new content inside the game. that means that the developers in constant work and progression (and by god, gg is 2d :S...do you know how hard this can be?)...and so forth
lately, due to the recent technology of patches, developers has an easier way to fix those inner content....so no need to be slackin time off and not do a good job at it!
players used to wait for as long as a whole year , just for some simple arcade patches or even a complete new cd upgrade on your ps2....and sometimes , they dont even have the chance.
a game company like SNK, they didnt fear whether the game might be broken or not, cause every year/or two they released a TOTAL new game to fix the previous mistakes, as will as put new content in each game for future fun development (example: kof 96, 97,98,99,2000,2001...etc)...do you know how time consuming this is? again...this is a 2d game. and back when there was no way to release patches , unless it's a complete new Board!


part of this, is lack in development, and not being aware of choosing the correct contractors for testing and in game development. so ofcourse, part of it, i would blame NRS for such a job.

though, i think NRS can learn from such game...i mean, if they decided to do mk10...then i bet they will do amazing job! especially that mk9 is new in its MK approach. that, is what i will agree on :) for sure it will be more accurate and perfected
Good post my friend. Now let to answer some of your questions.

You said," Who is us?"

I mean "us" as in the mk community. We never had a game like this before. Our games were made to invite some of your boys over play it for hours, talk some shit, get drunk( if you're over 21), and have some fun. The mk community has never had a game where there was some real depth and the game was given spots at DEV, Evo, and etc.

Now your next point talks about how hard GG, Tekken, and KOF work their asses off to make perfect games. Well, I don't nothing about GG since I got into the series with BB. Same goes for KOF. I only have played the 3D kof games. But I have some experience in Tekken and let tell you something sir. Even with through Legal players they have for Tekken. They still haven't made the perfect game. Tekken 6 was a fucking trainwreck. Those Legal players made characters like Yoshi shit and characters like Bob, Law, and Bryan L33T tier. I mean it's good to have talent like on the team when your making games like this, but there were huge flaws in T6 still. No matter what great player they got to work on the game.

But let me tell you something funny to end this post. The best fighting games are the ones that hated by the majority, but are loved by the minority. What am I talking about? I'm talking about SC4, DOA( debatable), BB, AH, and etc. But those games got knock to the side because thsoe same Sf and marvel players think it wasn't cool to play game with a Japanese art style. Or to have a game with countering system and so on.
 

xxteefxx

Kenshi Moderator
Good post my friend. Now let to answer some of your questions.

You said," Who is us?"

I mean "us" as in the mk community. We never had a game like this before. Our games were made to invite some of your boys over play it for hours, talk some shit, get drunk( if you're over 21), and have some fun. The mk community has never had a game where there was some real depth and the game was given spots at DEV, Evo, and etc.

Now your next point talks about how hard GG, Tekken, and KOF work their asses off to make perfect games. Well, I don't nothing about GG since I got into the series with BB. Same goes for KOF. I only have played the 3D kof games. But I have some experience in Tekken and let tell you something sir. Even with through Legal players they have for Tekken. They still haven't made the perfect game. Tekken 6 was a fucking trainwreck. Those Legal players made characters like Yoshi shit and characters like Bob, Law, and Bryan L33T tier. I mean it's good to have talent like on the team when your making games like this, but there were huge flaws in T6 still. No matter what great player they got to work on the game.

But let me tell you something funny to end this post. The best fighting games are the ones that hated by the majority, but are loved by the minority. What am I talking about? I'm talking about SC4, DOA( debatable), BB, AH, and etc. But those games got knock to the side because thsoe same Sf and marvel players think it wasn't cool to play game with a Japanese art style. Or to have a game with countering system and so on.
wow. actually, i REALLY never though of who is "US"....wow, that's so dis respectful of me actually ><! i am not kiddin...i swear i am serious O_O lol
one of my problem, is that i STILL look at MK as a NEW game that FINALLY made it after years....which i should never do that actually. cause to be honest, i never imagined i will go DEEP into this game...PERIOD!
i want to tell you i dropped SF4 for this! lol....so ya, how come i didnt think of this fast enough...no idea! haha

and true. of course man, nothing is perfect. but think about it that way,there's this Quote i seriously base my life on it, which is " You can never be the best! though, you can always try to push for being the best".
by means, nothing perfect, and it's impossible to be perfect....though, you can always TRY to perfect your own work. the only reason why i am not frustrated with MK like, at all! is because this is the VERY first Serious Game i've ever seen for MK series. Pure hardcore, respectful system, very mature....etc
so ya, i would not be angry at all at NRS...instead, i would encourage them to pursue something better. cause to be honest, in the future release of any other mk game, if it's not enhanced...then, there's a problem! dont you agree? :)

as for something like, tekken. dont forget! the wall system in tekken is something they are playing with! instead of making the same old game over and over...they try to reach the limit and break the box! so, of course it's risky! and if it's not done right, it might fall down hard

Tekken 4, they learned a lot from it...THOUGH, tekken 4 was NEVER that ugly like tekken 6 in my opinion! lol. but that's a different story

nice chating with you man. and to also note, i am 27 lol